Posted on 12/07/2007 8:53:10 PM PST by End Times Crusader
Two men suspected of burglarizing a neighbor's home were shot in the back by Pasadena homeowner Joe Horn after the suspects ventured into his front yard, Pasadena police disclosed Friday.
Also, for the first time, investigators revealed the Nov. 14 shooting was witnessed by a plainclothes Pasadena detective, who had pulled up in an unmarked car seconds before Horn fired three shots from his 12-guage shotgun.
The detective's name was not released as the new details emerged about the controversial shootings that have outraged minority activists but also brought an outpouring of support from others.
(Excerpt) Read more at chron.com ...
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
Was it dark? 2B would cover that. 3A and 3B also apply, since the old guy couldn’t tackle them, and it’s reasonable to beleive the stuff wouldn’t have been recovered.
He’ll be no-billed unless the prosicutors stack the grand-jury with illegals.
That is my recollection.
Sounds like if I can't outrun him to catch him (can't recover the property) and think he might be armed, it's a justified shoot.
Then he’s safe.
Corbett said the plainclothes detective, whose name has not been released, had parked in front of Horn’s house in response to the 911 call. He saw the men between Horn’s house and his neighbor’s before they crossed into Horn’s front yard. Corbett believes neither Horn nor the men knew a police officer was present.
“It was over within seconds. The detective never had time to say anything before the shots were fired,” Corbett said. “At first, the officer was assessing the situation. Then he was worried Horn might mistake him for the ‘wheel man’ (get-away driver). He ducked at one point.” When Horn confronted the suspects in his yard, he raised his shotgun to his shoulder, Corbett said. However the men ignored his order to freeze. Corbett said one man ran toward Horn, but had angled away from him toward the street when he was shot in the back just before reaching the curb.
“The detective confirmed that this suspect was actually closer to Horn after he initiated his run than at the time when first confronted,” said Corbett. “Horn said he felt in jeopardy.”
The wounded man crossed the street, collapsed and died, authorities said. At the same time, the other man had turned and ran away from Horn. Horn swung his shotgun around after shooting the first man and fired at the second one after he entered the neighbor’s yard, investigators said. He was hit in the back but continued running until collapsing a few hundred yards down the street, Corbett said.
According to a final ruling, Ortiz died of shotgun wounds to his neck and torso, said Ellie Wallace, an investigator at the Harris County Medical Examiner’s Office. The report said that Torres died of shotgun wounds to his torso and upper left extremity. Wallace could not confirm whether the men were shot in the back, saying the autopsy report only indicated they were shot in the torso.
Neither suspect was armed, but one had a “center punch,” a 6-inch pointed metal tool, in his pocket that might be used as a weapon, authorities said. Also, they were carrying a sack filled with more than $2,000 in cash and assorted jewelry believed taken in the burglary, police said.”
I don’t know what everyone has said and don’t really care. Break into my home you are getting shot. I don’t care if I see the whites of your eyes or the brand of your jeans.
It was broad daylight. Just listen to the 9/11 tapes and you will here Horn say he can’t believe they are doing this in broad daylight.
New laws went into effect in September.
I thought they turned their back, to hide the fact they were pulling their weapons.....
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.....
Oh -- Don't be on MY property in the commission of a felony...
You may just die there...
Why the hell did it take 7 minutes for the police to get to a CRIME IN PROGRESS????
Were they afraid to face a couple of burglars?
Folks are learning to forget 911, and pick up Colt .45 or Ruger 12 gauge.
Exactly how many "seconds" was the "detective" on site - and why wasn't he addressing the perps????
If the Law Enforcers don't like to deal with dead perps, they should get there faster or do a better job of keep illegal aliens out of the country...
If they were under surveillance, why would the LEOs sit there and watch them enter a home through a window, not knowing if unsuspecting family members were sleeping or occupying the home?
If that were the case, the cops have some hard questions to answer.
You raise some good points. Hopefully this case will be resolved not by whether they were shot in the @$$ or the elbow
but by what the applicable law says Horn was permitted to do.
Only in Hollywood, does anyone shoot the perp in the hand or a safe flesh wound in the arm....
I was taught to fire at least 2 rounds into center of mass — with no distinction on front mass or rear mass..
If still not certain of death -— fire a few more rounds into the mass on the grass..
Ammo is cheap......and one has only one life to lose..
There are NO mulligans in a fight for your life...
well, their back was to me
“Well those two POS probably needed putting down, but I think it would take a miracle for Horn not to be charged”
He may be charged, but I doubt he’ll be convicted
I think this happened in Pasadena.
Both were also using fake identification cards and aliases, and their backgrounds are now being scrutinized by federal authorities to determine if they were part of a Colombian fake ID and burglary ring, authorities said.
Mr. Horn, imho, should be lauded for the great service he has done for his city, state and country.
“In Texas it is legal to shoot someone engaged in criminal mischief after dark.”
That’s a good law, but this incident took place in the early afternoon, around 2PM. The article below mentions the afternoon.
http://cbs3.com/topstories/self.defense.shooting.2.569713.html
Grand Juries in Miami, FL, seldom charged police in any police shootings, or civilians in property crimes—in the 70s. Then Gov Bob Graham (D) gave us Janet Reno. :-(
Why didn’t the undercover cop try to stop the perps and, for that matter, Horn? Undercover or not didn’t the cop have a duty to warn the perps and Horn?
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