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The Transcript of the GOP's Univision Debate
Townhall ^ | 12/09/2007 | Hugh Hewitt

Posted on 12/09/2007 8:37:28 PM PST by Ultra Sonic 007



DECEMBER 9, 2007









MODERATOR: Good evening and welcome to the presidential forum.

(inaudible) in Spanish at the University of Miami.

Tonight is the Republicans' night. For the first time, seven of

the Republican candidates are going to participate tonight in a

Spanish forum. This is the opportunity they have to speak directly to

44 million Hispanics, especially to (inaudible) potential Hispanic


It's important because, as the presidential election of 2008 is

going to be tight, the Hispanic vote could decide who will be the next

president of the United States.

Things have changed so much in this country that no candidate

(inaudible) can reach the White House without the Hispanic vote.

For you, for the ones of you that don't speak Spanish, Univision

is going to be broadcasting this show in (inaudible) for Englishspeaking

audience tonight you will be able to follow the Republican

presidential forum (inaudible) in English provided in (inaudible).

And before we start, there are certain things that we want to

explain tonight. Those are the basic rules.

MODERATOR: All the candidates have accepted the rules of this

presidential forum and these are the most important ones. The

candidates will not make any opening statements nor will the make any

closing statements. Instead, they will address all the questions

asked by us, the moderators.

And we also asked them not to ask questions among themselves, and

to only answer the questions that we're (inaudible). And maybe if

that doesn't happen, we'll have to interrupt them.

Each candidate will have one minute to respond, and 30 seconds to

rebuttals, only on a limited discretion of the moderators. A yellow

light would advise the candidate that we have 15 seconds left and a

red light indicates that their time is up.

All questions will be asked in Spanish and will be simultaneously

translated into English for the candidates, who will answer in

English. And they are limited to that tonight.

Seven of the eight Republican presidential candidates are here

tonight. And, of course, their positions were determined by a

previous drawing (inaudible) by their representatives of choice.

MODERATOR: And we'll begin from left to right for the

candidates. Let's welcome them.

Please say welcome to Mike Huckabee. He was elected two times as

governor of Arkansas. He has a B.A. from Ouachita Baptist University.

He attended the Southeast Baptist Theological Seminary from 1976 to

1980. He is married and has three children.


Fred Thompson, the senator for the United States from Tennessee

since 1994 to 2003. He was also the assistant attorney general for

one term. He obtained a law degree from Vanderbilt University


Thank you for coming.

Mitt Romney was the governor of Massachusetts between 2003 and

2007. He was also the executive director of the Winter Olympics that

were in Salt Lake City.

MODERATOR: He also (inaudible) university. He is married and

has five children and 10 grandchildren.


Rudy Giuliani was Mayor of New York City for eight years. He

also was an assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District. He

obtained a law degree from New York University. He is married and has

three children.


Ron Paul is a Texas Representative. He has been elected six

times. He practiced as an OB/GYN for almost 30 years. He obtained

his medical degree at Duke University. He is married and has five

children and 17 grandchildren.


John McCain is a Senator for the United States from Arizona since

1986. He also was a federal representative for four years for that

same state. He has a bachelor's (inaudible) from the United States

Military Academy.

Thank you for coming. He is married and has seven children and

four grandchildren.


MODERATOR: Well, we want to thank all the candidates that are

participating in this forum.

Thank you so much for coming.

And, of course, on behalf of all the millions of Hispanics and

Latin Americans who are watching us tonight, we want to thank you.

And let's start with a question.

MODERATOR: Precisely, we're going to start with one question for

several of the candidates. The first one's for Mayor Giuliani. The

first one is, President Bush obtained more than 40 percent of the

Hispanic vote in 2004. I'm talking about Hispanic votes. But in the

Congressional elections last year, only 30 percent of Hispanics voted


So the question is: To what do you attribute the declining of

support among Hispanics to Republicans?

GIULIANI: That's the whole idea of being here, and it's the

whole idea of reaching out to the entire country. I think I

understand in great depth the importance of the Hispanic vote. I

think it helped elect me mayor of New York City on two occasions.

And I realize the complexity and the diversity of the Hispanic

community. It's very important. Very important to the present and

the future of this country.

I approach the Hispanic community the same way I do all

communities. I think if you want to be president of the United

States, the purpose of being president of the United States is to

create a better future, a brighter future, more safety, more

prosperity, more jobs, better education.

These are the things that Hispanics are looking for in the next

president of the United States. In short, they're looking for

leadership and somebody who can handle, if we have to handle a crisis,

and I think that I've demonstrated that.

MODERATOR: The next question is for Governor Romney. The same

thing: Why has the Hispanic support for Republicans declined?

ROMNEY: You know, I think Republicans went to Washington with

the expectations of the whole world that we would change Washington.

And in many respects, as has been said by many people, Washington

changed Republicans. And when Republicans act like Democrats, America


Republicans spent too much money, and we let down our ethical

standards. And so, Hispanics, along with other people in this

country, want to see change.

I (inaudible) the Republican Party can connect with Hispanic

voters, like other Americans, because there are some peculiar

connections between our party and the Hispanic people.

One, Hispanic Americans serve in the military and care about our

military. We salute them for their service right now. And we'll

strengthen the military. If I'm president, I'm going to add at least

100,000 troops to our military.

Secondly, Hispanic Americans are entrepreneurs and business

people. And I know how to build our economy. I'm going to keep our

taxes down and make sure that our economy grows and thrives.

ROMNEY: And, third, Hispanic Americans are family-oriented and

people of faith. I'm going to strengthen America's families. And so

my platform, this Republican platform, connects with Spanish --

Hispanic Americans from across the country.


MODERATOR: Governor Huckabee, how do you explain the decline of

support to Republicans by Hispanics?

HUCKABEE: I think Hispanics want the same thing everybody wants.

They want jobs. They want education. They want to know that they're

going to be able to live with freedom. If the Republicans only got 30

percent of the vote, somehow we didn't do a very good job of

communicating that that's what we would provide in terms of

opportunity and fairness.

It says more about our party and our need to reach out thank it

does about than it does about the Hispanic population of this country.

If we're really serious about truly saying we want more than 30

percent of the vote, then as we look at issues like education we'll

understand that while the dropout rate from high school is 30 percent

among all populations, it's 50 percent among Hispanics.

HUCKABEE: We've got to change that by creating personalized

education that focuses on perpetuating what's good for students, not

just making what's good for the school.

There's also issues and disparities between diabetes and other

issues of health.

So I think, if our policies reflect lifting people up, we'll get

the vote.


MODERATOR: Thank you very much.

Senator McCain, how do you explain that decrease in support for

the Republicans?

MCCAIN: First of all, could I mention that I've been proud to

represent a state in the United States Senate that has a very large

Hispanic population. It's a border state. I've been honored to have

as much as 70 percent of the Hispanic vote when I was re-elected last


MCCAIN: I've been honored by Hispanic organizations. And I

understand these issues and the challenges that they face. And I'm

proud to have developed the relationship that I have with the Hispanic

community in my state and in this country.

I'll give you some straight talk. I think some of the rhetoric

that many Hispanics hear about illegal immigration makes some of them

believe that we are not in favor nor seek the support of Hispanic

citizens in this country.


Hispanics are pro-small business, they are pro-life, they are

pro-religion, they are pro-less regulation, pro-less spending, promilitary,

they're serving in incredible numbers in Iraq as we speak

today. I had the opportunity of visiting with many of them...

MODERATOR: Thank you, Senator.

MCCAIN: ... over Thanksgiving. We can not only regain, but we

can get a majority support of Hispanics in America for our party.

MODERATOR: Thank you, Senator.


Senator Thompson, in a recent survey from Pew Hispanic Center,

published this past week, only 23 percent of Hispanics favor the

Republican Party.

MODERATOR: What are you going to do -- what can you offer to

recover the lost ground among Hispanics?

THOMPSON: Well, I think that we do share a lot in this country,

whether we're Hispanic or whether we are not Hispanic. I think we

have some of the basic values. I think Republicans got away from

those values.

You talked about Congress a minute ago. Congress' record rating

with the American people is at an all-time low. It's not just in the

Hispanic community. It's in the other communities that traditionally

supported us. We were too often affiliated with matters of corruption

in the United States Congress. We are spending the next generation's

money, those yet to be born. We are spending their money, with no


We need to stand up for the values that we are supposed to

believe in. We need to stand up for a strong national defense. We

need to stand up for judges who will obey the law and follow the law,

instead of making it up as it goes along, and we need to stand strong

for issues of pro-life, and support traditional values that are

important to our families. This is very important to Hispanics as

well as non-Hispanics.


MODERATOR: Congressman Hunter, I want to ask you the same

question. How are you going to think (inaudible) you're going to

recover the lost ground among Hispanics?

HUNTER: Well, you know what? I understand.

HUNTER: I talked to Donna Shalala, and she said actually a

number of young people are going to register to vote tonight, and I

want them to register for our party, for the Republican Party.

And I'll tell you a great reason to be a Republican. And it's a

story that's told 90 miles away and 1,500 miles away, because 90 miles

away, in 1961, the Cuban freedom fighters fought on the beach in Cuba

against Castro's forces.

And a Democrat administration let their aircraft carrier sit

there, while those freedom fighters were machine-gunned, because they

felt there was too much pressure coming from the United Nations --

either machine-gunned or captured.

HUNTER: Many years later, 1,500 miles away, in a little place

called El Salvador, a Republican president, Ronald Reagan, provided

that little shield around that government, while they stood up and had

free elections and brought freedom to El Salvador.

It's a story of two parties. It's a story of the party of

freedom. That's the Republican party. That's why I would register

Republican and support our party this year.


MODERATOR: Senator Paul, the same question: The Republican

Party lost some ground. Only 23 percent support their party. What

are you going to do to recover the lost ground?

PAUL: You know, if anybody votes for the Republican Party,

they're voting for conservative values. They're voting for less

government, not more government.

In the last seven years, we've gotten a lot more government.

You know, in the year 2000, we ran on a pro-peace policy. We

were condemning Clinton for warmongering, for nation-building and

policing the world.

And we did exactly the opposite.

PAUL: Now we're mired down in the Middle East.

And Hispanics, like all Americans, are tired of it. They're propeace.

America should be pro-peace, not pro-war.

The war has created so much expenditures. We're spending our

money overseas instead of here. We're neglecting our needs here.

We're bombing and building bridges overseas and we're neglecting our

bridges here at home.

Hispanics, like everybody else, want change in our foreign

policy. They want change with our budget. We're support to be the

fiscal conservatives. We're not.

So they leave the party, just like everybody else. This is why

we lost the election last year, is because we didn't stand by our

principles of pro-peace and pro-liberty and pro-America.


MODERATOR: Governor Romney, (inaudible) to be here and

(inaudible). Do you think that you're taking a risk to come here to

lose support from the more conservative base in your party?

ROMNEY: I don't think so at all. I think Americans across the

country of all ethnicities recognize that we are a great, pluralistic

society. That statue you have on the screen behind us, that light

that shine out for the entire world said, "This is an unusual land.

This is a land that welcomes people of all backgrounds, of all

ethnicities, of all nations; welcomes them here to this great land."


And she said that God gave to the individual certain inalienable

rights. And that changed the relationship between the state and the


It said that the citizen was the sovereign and the state was not.

And that changed the entire world. People came here for opportunity.

And our party is a party of opportunity. We stand for strength in our

home. We stand for strength in our economy. We stand for strength in

our military, so we defend our values, and so of course Republicans

are going to come and speak to Hispanic Americans in the language they

understand best, so we can get their votes and they can understand

that we are the party of strength and the party of freedom.

ROMNEY: Thank you.


MODERATOR: Mayor Giuliani, I heard you laughing when this

question was asked. What's your answer?

GIULIANI: Don't see any risk at all in coming before a Hispanic

audience. Hispanic Americans are Americans, just as much as all other

Americans. They have the same values, the same interests.

I learned that being mayor I think of the largest Hispanic city

maybe not in the hemisphere, but in the United States, and a Hispanic

city of great diversity and great strength. And what I learned is, we

have very common values. Hispanics have a tremendous interest in

giving more freedom back to people, giving more people -- giving

people more of a chance to decide on the education of their child.

That's why I think school choice would be a very good thing to do

for Hispanics, for Hispanic parents, for all parents. The decision on

where the child goes to school should primarily be made by the parent,

and the parent should decide what school the child goes to, not the

government bureaucrat.

GIULIANI: That's one of many, many things that really unites

what Hispanics want and need and what all parents want and need, which

is more control over their child's education. And that's something

that I would fight very hard to bring about.

MODERATOR: Governor Huckabee, is there a risk standing up here


HUCKABEE: Well, I think the great risk is not so much that we

would come. The far greater risk is if we didn't. And it's not just

that we would offend or perhaps insult the Hispanic audience of this

country. I think it would insult our own party. It would insult

every voter in this country.

To act like that somehow we've become so arrogant that there's

any segment of our population that we're either afraid to speak to,

hear their questions, or somehow that we don't think that they're as

important as another group. And it's why I think whether it's an

African American audience, a Hispanic audience, a union audience, as

Republicans, we ought to be more than willing to sit down, even with

people with whom we might know there are disagreements.

And I think, frankly, it's important for us to be here. It's

important that you gave us this opportunity. And I want to say thanks

for letting us have this audience on Univision.


MODERATOR: Tonight, your answers are being translated into

Spanish, interpreted (inaudible). Thirty-one million people in the

United States speak Spanish here. The census shows that. We're going

to start with Senator McCain. Do you think that there would be a

value -- a practical value of making English the official language in

this country?

MCCAIN: I think the most practical value is to make English used

by all Americans and all citizens, and all who come here. The only



The only way we move up the economic ladder from the bottom rung

is to know English. And I would emphasize the importance of every

person who comes to this country to become a citizen and enjoy its

liberties and beauty is to learn English. And I will do everything I

can to help them do that.


MODERATOR: Congressman Paul, what would be the practical value

of English as an official language?

PAUL: Well, it's practical because we can all understand each

other. I sometimes think that those who attack bilingualism sometimes

are jealous, and we feel inferior, because we're not capable.

But we should have one language.

But we, as federal officials, as a congressman or a president, we

only have authority over the federal government. So I think all

federal things should be in English.

But when it comes to bilingualism in schools or the states, under

our Constitution, it really is permissible.

PAUL: And the states can decide that. But under the conditions

that we have today, I think it is good and proper to have one

language, which would be English, for all legal matters at the

national level. But this doesn't preclude bilingualism or whatever in

private use or in education or in local government.


MODERATOR: The next question comes from our users of the Web

page of Univision that come; 85 percent of the questions posted by the

users were regarding immigration.

Some of you -- that's a question for one user -- some of you

oppose reform paving the way to granting undocumented aliens legal

status. What do you think should be done with the 12 millions of

undocumented aliens that live in the United States?

We're going to start with Mayor Giuliani.

GIULIANI: The first thing that has to be done is we have to end

illegal immigration. If we don't end illegal immigration, we're

really going to risk legal immigration. We should end illegal

immigration at the border, because it can't be really dealt with


We should do it by having a fence, a technological fence, as well

as a physical fence, but the technological fence is more important.

It should be used to alert the Border Patrol of the people coming to

the border, and we should stop people from coming in.

Then we should have a tamper-proof ID card that everybody can get

who wants to come into the United States legally. We should

accomplish that.

When we accomplish that, when we have control of our borders,

when we preserve the legality of immigration, we can then turn to the

people that are here. We can have them get the tamper-proof ID card.

The people that come forward can sign up. They can pay taxes, and

then the people who don't are the people who are really the cause of

concern. Those people should be expelled from the United States if

they don't already leave.

GIULIANI: But the people who want to come forward should be

allowed to come forward. But we can't do that until we control legal

immigration. Otherwise the illegal problem will increase


And I think that's something that we've all learned by traveling

around the country over the last year, two years, and looking at this.

So you have to end illegal immigration, or certainly get

substantial control over it, and then you can move forward with

sensible resolutions to the people that are here.

MODERATOR: Thank you, Mayor.


MODERATOR: Governor Huckabee, what to do with the 12 million of

undocumented that already live in the United States?

HUCKABEE: Well, I agree with the mayor that the first step is a

secure border, because otherwise nothing really matters.

But I do think the pathway has to include people going to the

back, not the front of the line. There can't be an amnesty policy,

because that's an insult to all the people who waited, sometimes,

ridiculously, for years, just to be able to make the transition here.

I think a reasonable window of time in which a person would go

back to the native country, start the process, but the real challenge

is that our government, which has failed miserably in all of this --

it's got to get its act together.

HUCKABEE: If you can get an American Express card in two weeks,

it shouldn't take seven years to get a work permit to come to this

country in order to work on a farm.


So if our government is incapable of making that process in that

length of time, then we should do it in a way to outsource it.

And here's why: When people come to this country, they shouldn't

fear. They shouldn't live in hiding. They ought to have their heads

up, because the one thing about being an American is, we believe every

person ought to have his or her head up and proud, and nobody should

have to be in hiding because they're illegal when our government ought

to make it so that people can reasonably come here in a legal fashion.


MODERATOR: Thank you, Governor.

Senator Thompson, we were preparing this forum, and we found a

survey from Los Angeles Times that said that 60 percent of the voters

in the United States think that -- they are in favor of granting legal

status to undocumented aliens if they meet certain criteria.

Why, if the majority supports that, why not support that idea?

THOMPSON: Because we have to enforce our borders, and we have to

uphold the law. There are millions of people who have stood in line

in embassies around the world, United States embassies, waiting to

become American citizens, waiting to become legal residents of the

United States of America.

Some places, such as Hong Kong, I read it takes an average of 13

years to go through that process.

The legal process needs to be reformed, indeed.

But when they finally come here, and when they are joined by

those people in Latin America who have often fought tyranny, who have

fought against the Castro regime, who have come here and risked their

lives to become United States citizens, when all those people come

here, they become a part of us; they become a part of our family.

THOMPSON: It would disrespect them if we said other people who

had not obeyed the law and had not gone through the process, to set

them above them and to give them special status above those who have

obeyed the law and fought so hard to become good American citizens and

legal residents.


MODERATOR: Governor Romney, the question is: Why not legalize

some undocumented aliens if they comply with the requirements, if they

meet certain requirements?

ROMNEY: You know, I have the occasion to talk to people who have

loved ones that are hoping to come to this country, to be reunited

with family members. And they're staying in their home countries

applying legally. I believe that those people ought to be the first

ones to get to come to this country. Those who have come illegally,

in my view, should be given the opportunity to get in line with

everybody else, but there should be no special pathway for those that

have come here illegally to jump ahead of the line or to be come

permanent residents or citizens. They should be treated like

everybody else who wants to come to this country.

ROMNEY: I think we ought to secure our border, we ought to have

an employment verification system to know who's here legally and

illegally, and recognize that legal immigration is an extraordinary

source of great capability and vitality for our country. We welcome

the cultures that come here, the education, the work ethic, the family

values. We're going to protect legal immigration. At the same time,

we're going to enforce the law, show that we're a nation of laws, and

welcome the people who have been standing in line first.

Thank you.


MODERATOR: Congressman Hunter, why not support the legalization?

HUNTER: Did you ask the same question?

MODERATOR: OK, why you're not support that idea?

HUNTER: Listen, when I was -- when I came back from Vietnam, I

was a practicing lawyer in the barrio. I was the only lawyer there,

and I never turned away a family that came in and needed help.

But I told them a couple of things. One thing is, you have to be

here legally, because the first thing you've got to learn in this

country is the rule of law. And the second thing is, you have to make

sure that your kids learn English, because that is the American


Now, in 1983, we gave an amnesty, and when we gave that amnesty,

3 million people came in who were allowed to stay in who were here

illegally. We said at that point, no more, and we're not going to let

anybody else come in.

HUNTER: After that, 12 million more people came in. If we give

an amnesty to this next batch of 12 million people, you will have a

third wave of people coming in expecting to catch the third amnesty.

You know, this lady behind me represents a lot of things. One is

welcoming immigrants to America. The other is the rule of law. We

have to establish the rule of law, and people who are here illegally

have to go home.


MODERATOR: Senator McCain, you co-authored a bill that would

have opened a pathway for legalization of undocumented aliens. It was

not approved. It was not passed in Congress. So do you think that

you're going to introduce a new bill including a pathway to gain legal


MCCAIN: I would do most anything to try to solve this compelling


MCCAIN: I come from a state where illegal immigration has caused

enormous problems, whether it be shootouts on the freeway or broken

borders or destroyed wildlife refuges.

And I thought my job, and I believe my job, as a senator from a

state on the border, is to get in the arena, not stand by and complain

or say no to everything, but get in the arena.

I learned that Americans want the border secured first. That's

what we will do.

But I'll say to you what I said at the last debate before a non-

Hispanic audience. And that is, we have to address this issue with

compassion and love, because these are human beings.

Of course, no one goes ahead of the line. Of course no one who

has broken our laws can be rewarded to do so. Of course there can't

be amnesty.

But I want to tell you, brave Hispanics have served this country

around the world.

MCCAIN: They have served in the Vietnam War. And I'll take you

down to the Vietnam War Memorial, and show you the names engraved in

black granite.

I will take you to Iraq today and, as I was over Thanksgiving,

and introduce you to brave young Hispanics who are serving our

country. Some of them, their parents came here illegally.

We cannot reward illegal behavior. We have to fix the borders.

We cannot allow this nation to be inhumane or without love and


MODERATOR: Thank you, Senator. Thank you.


Governor Romney, some days ago you fired a company that used to

take care of your landscaping because supposedly they were hiring

undocumented workers.

The question is this, did you report, officially, that the people

or the company to immigration authorities? And do you think that

should others report undocumented aliens, the people that you suspect

are undocumented?

ROMNEY: You know, we're a very compassionate people. We're also

a people who follow the law. And the landscaper at my home is an old

friend, and when he made a mistake the first time, I told him in no

uncertain terms, you have to make sure that anybody that works on my

property and walks on my property is a legal individual.

And he did his best, but he made a mistake. And apparently, two

people he had there were not legal. And I told him that's it, and we

terminated that relationship. And I think everybody in the country

understands who those folks are. It became a big news story.

But let's underscore something here, which is that employers like

this landscape company, and he's Hispanic American, he doesn't have a

way to determine whether the people he's hiring are legal or illegal.

Isn't it amazing in this country, with the fact that American Express

or Visa or Mastercard can tell you that fast whether the card is

authorized or not.

We don't know who's here legally or not. That's why we need an

employment verification system to identify the fact that legal aliens

that come here are legal, are entitled to work. And that's something

I'm going to get done so our employers know who's here legally and we

welcome people who want to come work in this country.

Thank you.


MODERATOR: Senator Thompson, there are still millions of

children that were born here in the United States that at least have

one undocumented parent. The (inaudible) have separated them from the

parents, and they are American citizens.

Do these children have the right not to be separated from their



THOMPSON: Well, congratulations. That's the first question

that's got applause tonight, so it must be a very good one.


The -- our courts have ruled that such children, such babies born

here are United States citizens. That's part of the 14th Amendment as

has been interpreted by the courts, as I understand it.

THOMPSON: That's for starters.

I believe that the concentration should not be on the concern of

waiting until that child grows up and serves as an anchor baby, as we

hear so much talk about. I believe the concern should be chain

migration. Right now, we have a situation where people can bring in

spouses, children, brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers and so forth.

I think that people should be able to serve as a basis for the

bringing in of their spouses and of their children, but I do not think

there should be endless chain migration.

So I think that is the issue to focus on, and not innocent

children who are born here not of their own accord and who our courts

have said our United States citizens.


MODERATOR: Senator McCain, the same question.

MODERATOR: The American children, do they have the right not to

be separated from their parents because of (inaudible)?

MCCAIN: When we failed to pass immigration reform through the

Congress of the United States it was a colossal failure. And, as a

result of that, we have all kinds of different problems -- the problem

you talk about, people who have been here for many years, people who

have not been here a very long time.

We have cities and towns and others declaring sanctuaries; others

the opposite.

And because of our failure at the federal level, we have had this

incredible problems which are spawned by it, because we failed.

The message of our failure is they want the border secured first.

And we must secure the borders first, and then we move on to all of

these other issues which many of them are heart wrenching and

humanitarian. Very tough decisions.

But once we secure the borders, I'm convinced the American people

will proceed with issues like this in a humanitarian and compassionate


MCCAIN: But until we get the borders secured, the lesson we

learned was that they aren't ready to address almost any other aspect

of this issue. And I regret that.

But, as president of the United States, I will secure the


MODERATOR: Thank you.

MCCAIN: ... have the governors certify it, and then we'll move

forward with all of these issues.


MODERATOR: Governor Romney, we would like to know -- see what

your opinion -- what's going to happen to the children who are being

separated from their families?

ROMNEY: We're going to finally have a system that welcomes

people here legally, and that says that those that have come here

illegally are invited to get in line with everybody else.

And the Constitution, as Senator Thompson has indicated,

indicates that those that are born here do become United States

citizens by virtue of being born here.

But if they're born here from parents who come across the border

illegally and bring them here illegally, in my view, we should not

adopt, then, these chain migration policies that say, you've got a

child here that's a U.S. citizen, and the whole family can come in.

ROMNEY: That, in my opinion, is a mistake.

We are a nation of laws. And you're correctly going through each

part of immigration policy here. But let's underscore this one more

time: We are, in this audience, almost every person here, an

individual who came to this country because it's a land of opportunity

and liberty.

We also, because we have laws, can have opportunity and liberty.

We're going to enforce the laws. Welcoming people here -- we're not

going to cut off immigration; we're going to keep immigration alive

and thriving.

But we're going to end the practice of illegal immigration. It's

not inhumane. It's humanitarian. It's compassionate. We're going to

end illegal immigration to protect legal immigration.

MODERATOR: Thank you.

ROMNEY: Thank you.


MODERATOR: The vast majority of Hispanics, four out of five, are

either legal residents or American citizens. Many of them feel

affected by the negative tone of the immigration debate. How would

you -- what would you do to curb this anti-Hispanic sentiment?

MODERATOR: First of all, Congressman Hunter...

HUNTER: You know, I represent a district in San Diego,

California and Imperial County, California, and that county for many,

many years is a majority Hispanic and two-to-one Democrat. And I'm

known as the guy who built the double-border fence that lowered the

crime rate so dramatically, that stopped all the drug trucks from

coming through, that stopped the smuggling of people and narcotics by

more than 90 percent.

You know what you do? You look people in the eye and you talk to

them frankly.

I would say this: I got more votes from the Hispanic community

-- known as the guy who built the border fence -- from the Hispanic

community, than anybody running for office, whether it was President

Clinton on a presidential year, or one of the local or the state

assemblyman or U.S. Senators.

That means that the Hispanic community in the United States does

not agree with the idea of having open borders. They do agree with

the idea of having order on the border and having a regulated system

where this lady of freedom standing behind me, the Statue of Liberty,

says: Come in, but follow the rules.


MODERATOR: Mayor Giuliani, how would you stop that anti-Hispanic

sentiment that affects legal residents in American (inaudible)?

GIULIANI: Well, I think the entire group of questions and

answers indicates the fact that this is a situation in which none of

us have been perfect, all of us have been struggling with this for

quite some time. And the reason is we really haven't followed the

advice of a great man, Father Hesburgh, who said, "We must close the

back door of illegal immigration in order to preserve the front door

of legal immigration."

And the question is not what mistakes were made in the past by

any of us.

The real question is: Who can fix it? How can we fix this?

And the way we fix it by ending illegal immigration, setting up a

new rule -- this is not a harsh rule, this isn't a cruel rule, it

isn't a difficult one -- if you want to come into the United States,

you have to identify yourself. After all, every other country, just

about, requires you to identify yourself when you come in.

We'll make it impossible through technology, through a BorderStat

system, through all the things we have to do, make it impossible to

come in illegally, so people don't hurt themselves as well as hurt us.

It's no picnic to be living as an illegal immigrant. It's a terrible

way to live.

GIULIANI: And even promoting that from the point of view of the

illegal immigrant makes no sense.

So we've got end illegal immigration at the border, which is the

only place you can end it. And then we have to set up a sensible,

secure system of coming in with a tamper-proof ID card...

MODERATOR: Thank you, Mayor.

GIULIANI: ... and allow people to do that.

MODERATOR: Thank you, Mayor.


Governor Huckabee, how can we curb that anti-Hispanic sentiment?

HUCKABEE: Well, I was governor of the state that is the secondfastest

growing state for Hispanics in the country, and we faced that.

Quite frankly, when we fix the situation and make the border

secure and people are here legally, a lot of the sentiment goes away.

HUCKABEE: And I think we forget sometimes that it's not just

that it's the people feeling that the illegals are coming in such

great numbers that we can't deal with it. But it's a terrible thing

when a person who is here legally, but who may speak with an accent,

is racially profiled by members of the public, and people assume that

they may be illegal.

It is in everybody's best interest -- it is in most of all the

best interest of the legal immigrants -- that we fix this problem, so

nobody questions the legitimacy of their being here, which often

happens, unfairly, unnecessarily and, frankly, in a completely un-

American manner.


MODERATOR: Thank you.

Representative Paul?

PAUL: On a negative tone -- well, one thing is, if we want to

prevent more negative tone, we won't be working on a tamper-proof ID.

PAUL: Because how can you have a tamper...


How can you have a tamper-proof ID for illegals or immigrants,

without doing it to everybody else?

That's going to lead to a national ID card, which I absolutely



But we have to realize where the resentment comes from. I

believe it's related to our economy. When the economy is weakening

and there's resentment because of our welfare system; jobs are going

overseas; our good jobs -- pay is going down.

There's a lot of resentments because the welfare system is based

on mandates from the federal government to put pressure on states like

Florida and Texas to provide services which the local taxpayers


Some of our hospitals are closing. So it's an economic issue,


If we deal with the welfare state and a healthy economy and a

sound -- money and all this wasteful spending overseas, we would have

a healthy economy; I think this problem would be greatly reduced.


MODERATOR: Thank you, Congressman. Thank you.

We're going to have a break and we'll be right back with other

important issues in this Republican forum.


MODERATOR: It's the presidential forum, the Republican one.

We're going to talk about something else. Now we're going to talk

about Latin America. A week ago, exactly a week ago, Venezuela

rejected changes to the constitution, but the president, Hugo



President Hugo Chavez has insisted that he's going to propose

them again. Many consider him a threat to democracy in the region.

If you were elected president, how would you deal with Chavez? Let's

start with Congressman John Paul -- Ron Paul, sorry.

PAUL: Well, he's not the easiest person to deal with, but we

should deal with everybody around the world the same way: with

friendship and opportunity to talk and try to trade with people.


PAUL: We talked to -- we talked to Stalin, we talked to

Khrushchev, we've talked to Mao, and we've talked to the world, and we

get along with people.

PAUL: Actually, I believe we're at a time where we even ought to

talk to Cuba and trade and travel to Cuba.



But let me -- let me tell you -- let me tell you why -- let me

tell you why we have a problem in South America and Central America:

because we've been involved in their internal affairs for so long. We

have been meddling in their business.


We create the Chavezes of the world, we create the Castros of the

world by interfering and creating chaos in their countries, and they

respond by throwing out their leader.



MODERATOR: Thank you, Congressman.

Governor Huckabee, the same thing: How would you deal with

President Chavez? He was elected democratically.

HUCKABEE: Well, Hugo Chavez is hardly the friend of the United

States. And even though we get 60 percent of their oil, I think it's

one of the major reasons we need to become increasingly oil-free and

energy-independent so that we don't have to worry about Mr. Chavez.


HUCKABEE: But there's a greater issue here, and it's the fact

that the people of Venezuela aren't Hugo Chavez and Hugo Chavez is not

necessarily the spirit of the people of Venezuela.


Even though he was elected, he was not elected to be a dictator

as he has become, suspending constitutional law.

My mother used to have a statement: If you give somebody enough

rope, they'll hang themselves. I have a feeling that Mr. Chavez,

continuing to take power from the people as he has done, will find

himself unfortunately out of power, and hopefully for all of us,

fortunately a democratically elected government there that will give

those people back the freedom that he has robbed from them and

hopefully by then we won't need their oil, but they will have their



MODERATOR: Thank you, Governor.

Mayor Giuliani, the same question.

GIULIANI: I actually agree with the way King Juan Carlos spoke

to Chavez.


That would be the way I would do it.


Far better than what Congressman Paul wants to do.

But the reality is that Chavez is acting...


GIULIANI: Chavez is acting like a dictator. And he should be

treated that way.

Luckily, he lost the vote recently. It shows the great hope that

Governor Huckabee is talking about, that there's a hope that the

people of his country understand the need for free markets, understand

the need for freedom, real free elections.

There's a counter-movement going on in Latin America. You can

see it in Colombia. You can see it in Panama. You can see it in

Mexico. I think President Calderon was elected -- not that I'm an

expert on Mexican politics -- but I think Chavez had something to do

with that.

GIULIANI: I think the people in Mexico were sending a signal,

that's not the direction they want to go in. They don't want to go in

the direction that Castro wanted to take Latin America. They don't

want to go toward socialism and communism. They want to go to free

markets, they want to go to freedom. I think it's the essential

nature of the people of Latin America, and I think Chavez is going in

actually the opposite direction, kind of a repeat of what Castro tried

to do, and it's a disgrace, and we should stand against it.

MODERATOR: Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Mayor.


When talking about Cuba, Cuban dictatorship has survived nine

U.S. presidents. What would you do differently, that has not been

done so far, to bring democracy to Cuba? We're going to start with

Senator Thompson.

THOMPSON: I'm going to make sure that he didn't survive 10 U.S.



Castro is unique in many respects.

THOMPSON: He represents the only non-democratic, at least,

elected government in the hemisphere. He is uniquely brutal. He is

still tyrannizing his own people.

He lures the vulnerable and the naive Americans down there and

puts on shows for them and they come back and do his propaganda.

There are not many people who can pull that sort of thing off.

He's obviously in bad health. That situation, probably, is in

God's hands. He will probably be succeeded by someone who's no better

than him, and that is Raul.

And we should treat Raul with the same contempt that we show

Castro, including keeping the embargo on Cuba.


MODERATOR: Governor Romney, what would you do differently that

has not been done so far?

ROMNEY: Well, first of all, you've got to think about who Castro

is, and who Raul Castro is as well.

ROMNEY: We call them strongmen -- dictators, authorative

totalitarian leaders. And yet these are individuals who are not

strong. Look at what they have done? Brothers to the rescue. They

shoot a small aircraft out of the sky. People wearing a wristband

that says "change," are arrested -- 25 of them just for wearing a

wristband; a Catholic church is edited and people are terrified

because a priest is just speaking his sermon.

These people, these Castro brothers are cowards, and we have to

recognize they are cowards.


And for that reason, the course for America is to continue our

isolation of Cuba. It is not to say, as Barack Obama on the

Democratic side said, that he would dignify the Castros with a

personal visit to Cuba. That's not the way to go. Instead, it's to

bring our friends together to isolate Cuba, to put together a strategy

that helps all of Latin America, weakens Hugo Chavez who is propping

up Castro.

ROMNEY: We need a Latin American policy that frees Cuba and that

eliminates a threat of people like Hugo Chavez.


MODERATOR: Thank you. Governor?

MODERATOR: Senator McCain, the same question. What would you do


MCCAIN: First of all, could I again congratulate the people of

Venezuela for rejecting this dictator's attempt to become a president

for life? And I also would like to echo the words of Prince Juan

Carlos, "Por que no te callas?" "Why don't you shut up?"

I'm pleased to have the support of Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, Mario and

Lincoln Diaz-Balart, who advise me and know these issues, and Mel

Martinez, every day. My friends, tonight our thoughts and prayers go

out to Dr. Bucet (ph), who fights for freedom, who is now in prison,

because Dr. Bucet (ph) resisted and fought against a state-controlled

and state-mandated abortion.

MCCAIN: God bless him and those students who wore this bracelet

called Cambio, who are now under arrest today.


Of course we need to keep our embargo up. Of course we cannot

allow economic aid to flow to Cuba. And if I were president of the

United States, I would order an investigation of the shoot-down of

those brave Cubans who were killed under the orders of Raul and Fidel

Castro, and, if necessary, indict them.


Thank you very much.

MODERATOR: Thank you.

The next question, of course, if regarding Iraq.

Congressman Hunter, surveys show that two out of three Hispanics

think that the United States should withdraw its troops from Iraq.

How would you convince them of the fact that they should stay there --

the troops should stay there?

HUNTER: Well, you know, there's lots of Hispanic Americans

serving in Iraq.

HUNTER: And my son came back from his third tour as a U.S.

Marine on Thanksgiving, having served in Iraq twice and Afghanistan.


And, you know, if you check with the Hispanics of the 1st Marine

Division or the 10th Army Division of the 1st Cavalry, you'll get a

lot different poll than the poll that you're telling me right now,

because the young men and women who are serving over there know we can

win in Iraq.


And let me tell you what they've done. With blood, sweat and

tears they have brought down the attack rate in Anbar province by 80

percent. They brought it down over the entire nation.

The Iraqi army is now standing up, all 131 battalions. That

government's going to hold and the army's going to hold, and we are

going to leave Iraq in victory, and we're going to leave an Iraq that

will be a friend, not an enemy of the United States.


So we're going to be victorious in Iraq, and Hispanic Americans

who serve there know that.


MODERATOR: Mayor Giuliani, how to convince Hispanics that the

troops should stay in Iraq?

GIULIANI: Well, I think Hispanics -- all Americans -- should

look at what's the strategic goal that's a victory for America. The

strategic goal in Iraq has to be an Iraq that's stable and an Iraq

that will act as an ally for us in the Islamic terrorist war against


The opposite -- fleeing Iraq, running out of Iraq, giving into

the kind of frustrations that the Democrats are portraying, having a

declaration of loss in Iraq, will only help the Islamic terrorists and

will hurt us. And I think we should give our troops a chance to

succeed in Iraq.

How about our goal in Iraq is victory, winning, being successful

there, and being successful to the extent of having a stable

government and a government that will act as an ally for us?

Every indication that we get from the men and women in the field

and from their commanders is that we have a chance to achieve that.

It's not guaranteed.

GIULIANI: Things and matters of war and peace are never

guaranteed. But why not give them a chance to have this kind of


After all, it will make us all safer, Republicans, Democrats,

Hispanics, non-Hispanics. This is what's good for America. And

that's what we should be for.


MODERATOR: Senator McCain, why should the troops be kept there?

MCCAIN: Because we are succeeding. And years ago, when the

Rumsfeld strategy was failing, I was the only one on this stage that

said it has to change.


I was the only one on this stage that said we have to pursue a

new strategy...


... that Senator Edwards and others used to call the McCain

strategy and the McCain surge. They don't do that anymore.

And it was tough in those days, when I said that Rumsfeld had to

go, and I had no confidence in him. And I was accused of disloyalty.

Republicans went to Iraq and blamed it on the media. It wasn't

the media. We had a failed strategy. Now we have a successful

strategy. We can succeed. We will succeed.

And I often like to tell my friends of the time, last Fourth of

July, when I saw 128 brave Americans, most of them Hispanic, who had a

green card, who raised their hands to become citizens of the United


MCCAIN: Two weren't there because they'd been killed in combat

the week before. I was never (sic) proud of our Hispanic citizens who

were willing to lay down their live to become citizens of this

country. They will succeed and I will honor their memory.


MODERATOR: Governor Huckabee, why not withdraw the troops from


HUCKABEE: Because we are winning, as Senator McCain just said.

Civilians deaths are down 76 percent since the surge. Even the

military deaths are down over 60 percent. And that's not the only way

we know we're winning. We're winning because we see in the spirit of

our own soldiers a sense of duty and honor that they are being able to

carry out a mission that they were sent there to do. To take them out

of it not only means we lose, but it means we totally destroy their

sense of morale, and it may take a generation to get it back.

HUCKABEE: But there's more at stake than just their morale.

It's the safety and the security of the Middle East and the rest of

the world.

This isn't an issue that's about Hispanics or anybody else in

terms of ethnicity. This is about every one of us being able to be

free, to have a future, and to be able to know that we're not going to

allow a vacuum there, which happens if we lose -- and we lose when we

walk away -- to create an opening so that terrorists can build even

greater cells of training and empowerment there.

That's why we have to stay. And it's why we have to win.


MODERATOR: Governor Romney, for how long would we need to leave

our troops in Iraq?

ROMNEY: Let's talk about our mission there. This is not just

about strategy and allies. It's not about oil. It's not about just

the economy. It's not just about standing up for the fact that we've

been there for a long time.

It's about human lives.

ROMNEY: What we're doing in Iraq relates to protecting the lives

of American citizens, here, around the world. It relates to lives

throughout the world. It relates to dignity and freedom.

We're in Iraq because we want to make sure that Iraq does not

become what Afghanistan was. What Afghanistan was under the Taliban

was a place that they could recruit and train and launch attacks

against us on 9/11, and other attacks throughout the world.

The Khobar Towers, our embassies in Africa, the USS Cole -- they

were launching attacks. The last thing America could stand for, the

last thing we could do with the human lives that are so precious,

would be to have Iraq become an Afghanistan. Fortunately, the surge

is working. It's going to keep that from happening. We're going to

have stability and security there and American lives will be saved by

virtue of the extraordinary sacrifice of American servicemen.


MODERATOR: Thank you, Governor.

Senator Thompson, for how long?

THOMPSON: The central point needs to be made, and all my

colleagues are I think implying it, but I think it needs to be set out

in a straightforward manner.

THOMPSON: We have yet to fully come to terms with the fact that

Iraq and Afghanistan are part of a global conflict, a war by Islamic

fascism that's been declared upon us, of which Iraq and Afghanistan

are current fronts.

They are intent on bringing down Western civilization, and we're

the number one target. It's just that simple.

If we leave Iraq with our tail between our legs, we are going to

enhance their ability to recruit young people who, they too, can help

bring down parts of America and maybe America itself.

We will leave an opening for Iran, as it, I still believe,

continues to pursue a nuclear capability.

And it will provide a sanctuary for terrorists that does not

exist anywhere in the world today.

All of this would make for a much more dangerous United States of

America. That's why we must prevail.

And I agree with my colleagues. I believe that we are.


MODERATOR: Thank you.

Congressman Paul, you have a different point of view among all of

them, don't you?

PAUL: I do.


I definitely have a different point of view, because we weren't

justified in going over there. We did not declare the war. And I

would say to the Hispanics that believe we ought to come home, I would

say: Let's come home as soon as possible.


You might ask the question, why is it that I have a different

view point on foreign policy. Because I adhere to the Constitution

and the advice of the founders to stay out of the entangling

alliances, the internal affairs of other nations.

Why is it then that I get the most money as a candidate for the

presidency from active military personnel? They're tired of it too.


We already have a de facto draft. These men who have fought

valiantly are called up time and time again. Their services are

extended from 12 months to 15 months. They've been over there two and

three times, and they don't see an end in sight.

PAUL: This whole idea, we're going through the same argument,

the light at the end of the tunnel. We did this in the '60s when I

was in the service. And we finally left Vietnam, tragically.

But we do much better in peace with Vietnam. We trade with them.

They have become Westernized.

What we achieved in peace we couldn't achieve in war.


MODERATOR: Thank you, Congressman. Thank you.

Well, we want to talk about other topics. And we're going to

talk about health.

And we're going to talk with you, Senator McCain. We have a lot

of questions. We have hundreds of them. One of them says, "I'm not

asking for free health insurance, but I'm looking for an affordable

health insurance."

That's the question: What would you do to curb the high cost of

medical health care and to help those who don't have health insurance?

MCCAIN: Well, first of all, I'm glad you asked that question of

the hundreds, because that's the real question.

MCCAIN: The real question is: How are we going to keep health

care costs down, because we have the highest quality of health care in

the world in America today?

And unlike the Democrats, I'm going to preserve that quality of

health care, and at the same time stop the inflation and the

skyrocketing costs of health care. And there's a couple of

principles. One is to make the recipient of the health insurance to

be much more responsible in health-care costs and how they allocate

and how they choose their insurance policies.

To address wellness and fitness, which is a key element of any

way we're really going to reduce health-care costs in America. To

give every American family a $5,000 refundable tax credit so they can

go anyplace in the world -- in America to acquire the health insurance

policy that best suits their needs.

MCCAIN: And, if they've got money left over, then invest it in a

health savings account.

Ronald Reagan said nobody ever washed a rental car. And that's

true in health insurance. If they're responsible for it, then they

will take more care of it. And we should have wellness and fitness


MODERATOR: Thank you, Senator.

MCCAIN: ... emphasized all over America today, particularly

amongst young people.

MODERATOR: Thank you.


Mayor Giuliani, how can we curb the high cost and also offer

insurance to the people who don't have it?

GIULIANI: The very best way to do it -- and Senator McCain is

on the right track, but it has to be more -- more of an incentive for

people to buy their own health insurance.

We only have 17 million Americans who buy their own health

insurance. If we had 50 million or 60 million Americans who were, the

cost of health insurance would probably be cut in half or more than

half, and a lot of people could afford it, the way this person is

asking us, how can you do it.

So, you give people a $15,000 for a family tax deduction, tax

exemption, to buy their own health insurance. You encourage them to

do it. You also give them a health savings account to up to $5,000 or

$6,000, so that they can then look for deductibles in insurance.

GIULIANI: And it brings down the cost of insurance. That's one

of the primary ways to do it. And then you break down the barriers

where people can only buy in one state and you let them buy in any

state, so that we can set up a real competition.

The thing that works in America is not socialized medicine that

the Democrats want to bring us, not government control, not mandates,

but a large consumer market where you empower people to enter that

market is the only way to bring down costs and to bring up quality.


MODERATOR: Governor Huckabee, you know the numbers: 47 million

people don't have health insurance, including 15 million Hispanic.

What can be done to provide coverage for those people?

HUCKABEE: Of those 47 million, one-third don't have it because

they are self-insured. Another one-third don't have it because they

think they're healthy and invincible. There is one-third that don't

have it because they can't afford it. And then there are a lot of

people who have insurance, but they're underinsured.

But let me tell you, the biggest problem we have in this country

is not a health care crisis, it is a health crisis. We spend $2

trillion a year on health care, and 80 percent of it goes to chronic

disease, which means that what we really have to begin dealing with is

turning the system right side up, because it is upside down focused on

waiting until people are catastrophically ill, and then we try to rush

in with the most expensive modalities possible.

HUCKABEE: What we need to be doing is putting the real focus on

preventing the illness in the first place. It's the difference

between either putting an ambulance at the bottom of the hill or

building a fence at the top.

We can afford universal coverage, but not until and not even

close until we first have health, rather than just focus on health


Let me say the last thing we need to do is to believe that

Michael Moore's idea is good and we can all go to Cuba and get health

care. I don't mind shipping him down there, but the rest of us I'd

like to get our care here.


MODERATOR: Governor Romney, what should we do with all the

millions of people who are not insured?

ROMNEY: Well, I think I'm probably the only person on the stage

and the only governor that actually stopped talking about getting

health care for everybody and actually got the job done.

Working with people across the aisle, we said: Enough is enough.


You know, we're up here talking about all sort of ideas about tax

credits and deductions, and my program has a deduction as well. We

talk about prevention and people being health.

But, look, the best kind of prevention you can have in health

care is to have a doctor. And if someone doesn't have a doctor,

doesn't have a clinic they can go to, doesn't have health insurance to

be able to provide the prescription drugs they need, you can't be

healthy. And you need to have health insurance for all of our


And I found a way to do that without requiring raising taxes,

without a government mandate, without a government takeover. Instead,

I didn't want to have a -- when I said government mandate, I meant

employer mandate. Instead, we have personal responsibility. We

allowed individuals to buy their own policies.

ROMNEY: Those that couldn't afford them, we helped them buy

their policies. And you know what? It cost us no more money to help

people buy insurance policies that they could afford than it was

costing us before, handing out free care.

We Republicans can get everybody insured. Let's get it done.


MODERATOR: Senator Thompson, what to do with the 15 million

Hispanics who don't have insurance?

THOMPSON: The lower health care costs are, the more people will

be insured. There's really two basic ways to lower health care costs:

bigger government or more efficient markets.

Government could come in and say what it's going to cost

everybody. And then we'd have long lines and waiting, wondering why

we can't get radiation for a family member that has cancer and have to

wait for months for it, and that sort of thing.

We totally, I think, all reject that.

I say, let's make our markets more efficient. We made a mistake

in our tax code many years ago. We need to reverse that mistake so

people are not so tied to their employment for their insurance.

They need, through the tax code, need to have the benefit of

buying their own insurance through an open market with more sources,

more people offering insurance, lifting regulations to make that


THOMPSON: It would be portable so people could take their

insurance with them from job to job.

As we know, people through a lifetime nowadays, have more jobs

than they used to. I think that the markets have worked so often for

us in so many different ways in this society. Free people competing

with each other in free and open markets bring down costs. That's the

way to get there.


MODERATOR: Thank you very much.

We're going to have another break, and we're going to continue

with this Republican forum in a minute.


MODERATOR: We'll continue live in Univision with this

presidential forum. And we're going to talk about something else.

We're going to talk about education.

A recent survey done for La Raza National Council show that nine

out of 10 Hispanic voters think that improved public education should

be a priority for the next president of the United States.

Let's start with Senator Thompson. What should we do to improve

the public schools so our children will be educated in this country

from coast to coast?

THOMPSON: First of all, I think we need to recognize where the

responsibility lies. It would be easy enough for someone running for

president to say: I have a several-point plan to fix our education

problem. It's not going to happen. And it shouldn't happen from the

Oval Office.

We spend about 9 percent of education dollars now at the federal

level. The responsibility historically and properly is at the state

and local level.

I think, however, we can do things that would support choice, do

things that would support vouchers, do things that would support

homeschooling, and recognize that we need to speak the truth.

THOMPSON: One of the advantages of being in the Oval Office is

having a bully pulpit. And the fact of the matter is, if families

would stay together, if fathers would raise their children, especially

young men when they get into troublesome ages, we would solve a good

part of the education problem in this country.


MODERATOR: Thank you, Senator.

Senator McCain, how can we improve the quality of public schools

in this country?

MCCAIN: Choice and competition is the key to success in

education in America. That means charter schools, that means home

schooling, it means vouchers, it means rewarding good teachers and

finding bad teachers another line of work. It means...


It means rewarding good performing schools, and it really means

in some cases putting bad performing schools out of business.

About three or four weeks ago, I went to a wonderful, wonderful

school in the lower-income part of Philadelphia.

MCCAIN: It's run by a Hispanic organization called Esperanza.

Esperanza has set up a charter school. The kids wear uniforms. It's

98 percent Hispanic and 8 percent African American. Their grades are

phenomenal. Their dropout rate is low. Their parents are responsible

and they're engaged.

And guess what's happening? The public schools in Philadelphia

in the area are starting to improve as well, because of the choice and

competition that is employed by the parents there. I want every

American parent to have a choice, a choice as to how they want their

child educated, and I guarantee you the competition will dramatically

increase the level of education in America.


And I applaud our former Governor Bush for the great job he's

done on education in Florida and America.

MODERATOR: Thank you. Thank you, Senator.

Governor Romney, how can we improve education -- public education

in this country?

ROMNEY: Well, we've got a pretty good model. If you look at my

state, even before I got there, other governors and legislatures

worked real hard to improve education. And they did a number of

things that made a big difference.

One is, they started testing our kids to see who was succeeding,

making sure that failing schools were identified and then turning them

around. They fought for school choice. When I became governor, I had

to protect school choice because the legislature tried to stop it.

And then we also fought for English immersion. We wanted our

kids coming to school to learn English from the very beginning. And

then we did something that was really extraordinary. We said to every

kid that does well on these exams that we put in place before you can

graduate from high school, we're going to give you a John and Abigail

Adams scholarship, four years tuition-free to our state university or

state colleges for all the kids that graduate in the top quarter of

their class.

We care about the quality of education. I want to pay better

teachers more money. Teachers are underpaid, but I want to evaluate

our teachers and see which ones are the best and which ones are not.


ROMNEY: And let me tell how our kids are doing. Every two

years, we test the kids across the country, the NAPE exam. Our kids

-- my kids came out number one in English in fourth and eighth grade,

number one in math. In all four tests, our kids came out number one

in the nation.

These principles of choice, parental involvement, encouraging

high standards, scholarships for our best kids -- these turn our

schools into the kind of magnets that they can be for the entire


MODERATOR: Thank you, Governor.


We're going to continue talking about education. One our of

three Hispanic students don't finish high school.

Governor Huckabee, what would you do to stop dropouts of school.

HUCKABEE: Well, first of all, the reason a lot of kids don't

finish school and they drop out -- and by the way, you're right. The

Hispanic dropout rate is significantly higher than the general


Six thousand kids, every day, drop out of school, 6,000. You

know, the only reason any of us are standing on this stage today is

because we have an education. Without it, we wouldn't be here.

HUCKABEE: An education is empowerment. The lack of it leads us

to incredible, just all kinds of obstacles in our path.

And we always talk about we need more math and science, and we,

and we're doing a better job. But one of the reasons we have kids

failing is not because they're dumb, it's they're bored. They're

bored with a curriculum that doesn't touch them.

We have schools that are about perpetuating the schools, not

helping the students.

I propose launching weapons of mass instruction, making sure that

we are launching not only the math and science...


... but music and art programs that touch the right side of the

brain, and not only educate the left side of the student's brain.


Because without a creative economy and a creative student, you

have a bored student, and that's one of the reasons we see so many of

them dropping out.


MODERATOR: Mayor Giuliani, dropout among Hispanics, how would

you solve that?

GIULIANI: Well, you know, Governor Huckabee reminds me of the

fact that I'm the product of a Catholic from the day I started in

kindergarten until the day I got out of college.

GIULIANI: And it was my parents...


It was my parents' choice. They made that choice for me. I

wouldn't have known. They made that choice. It was hard for them to

afford it. I was fortunate enough to get scholarships along the way

to help.

But the reality is, that's really the answer. And we're all

saying it in a different way. We can revolutionize public education

in this country by allowing for choice.

Has it ever occurred to you that we have the best higher

education system in the world, and we have a weakening K-12, including

for Hispanic students?

Now, why do we have the best higher education in the world and

this K-12 that's under great stress?

Because higher education is based on choice. It's based on you

pick a college because you want to go there. The government doesn't

force you to go there.

We should allow parents, like my parents were able to do; we

should empower them by giving them the money, giving them

scholarships, giving them vouchers, let them choose a public school, a

private school, a parochial school, a charter school, homeschooling.

Let's give the power to the parents, rather than to the government

bureaucrats. And we will turn around education within three years.


MODERATOR: Congressman Hunter, you know that problem of dropping

out of Hispanics...

HUNTER: You know, in California there was a great teacher named

Jaime Escalante, who taught calculus. And he taught calculus in the

barrio so effectively that his kids when they took the test were

accused of cheating by the school district because they scored so


Jaime Escalante brought to the school system the one thing that

we need throughout America, and that is inspiration, because young

people are deciding what they want to do when they're in third,

fourth, fifth, sixth grade.

And what we're going to have to do -- and incidentally, Jaime

Escalante ultimately left that school district and the calculus

program went down because he had a run-in with the teachers union.

What we have to do in this country is to take away all this old

credentialing. We've got to bring in aerospace engineers and pilots

and mathematicians and scientists and business-people, and we have to

bring in people who can inspire kids at a young age to reach for the

stars, and then convince them to work hard enough to get there.

HUNTER: Inspiration, that's how we increase our capability in



MODERATOR: Thank you.

Well, we have the last question for all of you. Hispanics are

the biggest minority in the United States, and by 2050, we're going to

be 25 percent of the population. Three months ago, I asked the same

thing to the Democratic candidates.

What would you think would be the biggest contribution from

Hispanics, but we want to ask you what is the role -- what role do you

think Hispanics will play in the development of our nation and our


We're going to start with Governor Huckabee.

HUCKABEE: On our coins, it says, "E pluribus unum." It means

out of many, one.

Ronald Reagan said it best. He said that if we go to Germany,

we're not Germans, and if we go to Italy, we're not Italians. But

anyone who comes to America is an American.

HUCKABEE: One of the great aspects of this nation is that when

people come here and unite with us, they share not just our borders

and our boundaries. They share our hopes and our dreams and our


And if there's any one reason that this country is a magnet for

people, and clearly a magnet for many Hispanics who have found hope

and opportunity here, it's because they see in this country what we

ourselves who live here see. And that is that here, we can dream

great dreams and actually can see them.

Our equality is not based on our ancestry, our last name, it's

not based on how much money we make. It's based on the intrinsic

worth and value that every one of us have. It's why we share

something else, and I think that this nation is basically pro-life

because we recognize that intrinsic worth.

And I think what we offer is an opportunity to raise families and

to live dreams and to be free.

MODERATOR: Thank you.


Congressman Hunter, what would be -- what role would Hispanics

play in the future of our society?

HUNTER: Well, first, I want them to play a role as Republicans.

And I want to invite, again, all the young people who are --

registering to vote -- tonight -- to just remember a couple of things.

One thing is that that lady in El Salvador who stood there in the

line for the elections after a Republican president, Ronald Reagan,

had protected El Salvador and provided for free elections, and she had

a bullet hole in her arm and she was asked, do you want to go to the

aid station, and she said, yes, but first, I vote.

So, remember, Republicans stand for freedom.

Secondly, I want you to remember the Republicans stand for life,

that the man who founded our party, Abraham Lincoln, did so on the

basis of the value of human beings.

And lastly, I'd like you to remember that, you know, Democrats

think this is a great country because of what government does for

people, while Republicans think this is a great country because of

what free people do for themselves.

HUNTER: I think Hispanics have a great role with this great



MODERATOR: Thank you.

Senator Thompson, you -- how far can Hispanics get in this


THOMPSON: I think to help us be as strong as we can be and as

good as we can be as Americans, I think the most important thing for

Americans to be thinking about tonight is our national security, our

future prosperity, for the children coming up behind us and our


The Hispanic community is traditionally strong in defending

liberty and defending our nation's honor. They have had to fight

their way, in many cases, just to come here and become a part of our


The Hispanic community is well-known as having a work ethic that

is second to none.

THOMPSON: They ask for very little and contribute very much.

The Hispanic community is known for their values. They know that

marriage is between a man and a woman, for example. They know that

the family...


They know that the family is at the center of societies, and

strong families build better societies. Those are things that they

share with all other citizens of the United States...

MODERATOR: Thank you, Senator.

THOMPSON: ... and will make for a stronger country.


MODERATOR: Senator McCain, your vision of Hispanics in the


MCCAIN: My vision of America in the future when Hispanics are a

very large percentage of our population is that we will be enriched.

We will be enriched by their music, their culture, their food, their

language, and most of all, their love of America.

Most of these people came from places where they were deprived of

human rights, whether it be a terrible place like Cuba, or a country

like Venezuela, where you have a two-bit dictator, depriving them of

their opportunities to move forward.

MCCAIN: I know what it's like to be deprived of one's human

rights, and I know that one of the things that Hispanics will do is

love this country and defend it, and defend the great beauty and

wonder of this nation, and keep it a shining city on a hill.


MODERATOR: Congressman Paul?

PAUL: The most important thing Hispanics can do is what all

Americans do: Join us in our effort to restore our Constitution and

our great country. We have lost our way. We have lost our way. We

have deserted our traditions on our foreign policy, on our economic

policy, our education policy, our monetary policy, and this country is

looking for help.

And people are joining us now to restore this.

PAUL: And this is not a Hispanic issue, it's an American issue.

What we want is the rule of law so we all have opportunity once

again. But we have to not only restore the Constitution, we have to

first read it and understand it and what it means to be free in this

country once again.


MODERATOR: Mayor Giuliani?

GIULIANI: Hispanic Americans have already reached great heights

in America. They've contributed so much. I saw that in my city.

They pushed us to be better. They have the basic values that make us

better, values of family, values of hard work, getting a good job,

education as the way to success.

Even when you asked that question, "What are Hispanics concerned

about?," they're concerned about a good education for their child,

they're concerned about having an opportunity to work.

These are basic American values. It's what the Cuban-Americans

have done, coming to this country. It was wonderful for us that we

had Cuban-Americans come here, it made us better, it made us better


I see that with all the different Hispanic populations in New

York that are very, very diverse.

This is one country, but it's a country that's informed by all

these great traditions.

And when you say Hispanic, we also should recognize this is a

diverse tradition. It's from many different countries. They share

these common values, but they're coming here to be Americans, and

they're making us better by being here in America.

GIULIANI: And I think -- I think we do the right things; we have

the right approach; we have the right leadership, the sky's the limit

for Hispanic Americans.

But, you know something, the sky's the limit for all Americans if

we have the right kind of leadership.


MODERATOR: Thank you.

Governor Romney?

ROMNEY: America needs all Americans. We're in a time of real

need. We're the strongest nation on Earth; we're the hope of the

Earth. But we face some extraordinary challenges -- global jihadists,

violent jihadists, who want to bring down our nations and other


We face, as well, tough new competition coming from places like

China and India, unlike anything we've known before.

We spend way too much money in Washington, particularly on

entitlements that are growing more and more weighty on us.

ROMNEY: We have extraordinary challenges culturally as people

are deciding to have kids without being married. There are all sorts

of challenges in our country. And right now, we need to do what

Ronald Reagan did, which is call on America's strength.

As he faced the difficulties of the last century, he said, let's

have a strong military and a strong economy that can outcompete the

Russians. And let's make sure we have strong values and confidence in


The Hispanic community, like all other communities in this great

nation, need to come together and strengthen America. Because this is

the land of the brave and the home of the free. And Hispanics are

brave and they are free, as are all of the people of this great


Thank you.


MODERATOR: Thank you.

Thank you very much to all the candidates for being here with us

tonight -- and Univision. Thank you so much for coming. Thanks a lot.


TOPICS: Front Page News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: debate; duncanhunter; elections; fredthompson; mikehuckabee; mittromney; ronpaul; univision
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To: captnorb
Anyone suing this forum to advance anyone but Thompson and Hunter and Tracado are pseudo republicans and lack conservative values.

Who is suing the forum? That is news to me.

101 posted on 12/10/2007 9:31:42 AM PST by La Enchiladita
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To: TheLion

I look forward to your comments when you have read the transcript. Romney makes good points; so does Thompson.

102 posted on 12/10/2007 9:34:55 AM PST by La Enchiladita
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To: kabar
If they are American citizens and can vote, they should know English. Why should the candidates depend on translators to communicate their message?

But that's not the issue here. It's a free country, and even if English was to become the official language, there is nothing to stop millions of Hispanic voters from preferring Spanish as their language of choice.

So the last thing a politician or party wants to do is alienate an increasingly powerful bloc of votes by telling them that unless you only use English in the electoral process (debates, polling, voting, etc) then we're not interested in your support.

Voters are consumers too, and if Republican politicians refuse to sell themselves to the Hispanic voters, then they should not be surprised if the voters don't buy from them. Holding a Spanish language debate is simply a good marketing tactic, nothing more.

103 posted on 12/10/2007 9:59:06 AM PST by tyke
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To: AuntB

It is active, all right! Ron Paul supporters have been voting over and over and over and over. Great job, by the Ron Paul supporters!

104 posted on 12/10/2007 10:04:52 AM PST by seekthetruth
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To: seekthetruth

The Paul people have quite the spamming system don’t they?

105 posted on 12/10/2007 10:14:29 AM PST by AuntB (" It takes more than walking across the border to be an American." Duncan Hunter)
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To: tyke
But that's not the issue here. It's a free country, and even if English was to become the official language, there is nothing to stop millions of Hispanic voters from preferring Spanish as their language of choice.

That's the problem. As the noted Harvard historian, Samuel P. Huntington, observed, "The persistent inflow of Hispanic immigrants threatens to divide the United States into two peoples, two cultures, and two languages. Unlike past immigrant groups, Mexicans and other Latinos have not assimilated into mainstream U.S. culture, forming instead their own political and linguistic enclaves—from Los Angeles to Miami—and rejecting the Anglo-Protestant values that built the American dream. The United States ignores this challenge at its peril.

So the last thing a politician or party wants to do is alienate an increasingly powerful bloc of votes by telling them that unless you only use English in the electoral process (debates, polling, voting, etc) then we're not interested in your support.

You are making my point. Why would this "powerful bloc of voters" object to the sole use of English in the electoral process?

Voters are consumers too, and if Republican politicians refuse to sell themselves to the Hispanic voters, then they should not be surprised if the voters don't buy from them. Holding a Spanish language debate is simply a good marketing tactic, nothing more.

It goes deeper than just marketing. It changes the very nature of this country. I assume that you would prefer than all politicians become fluent in Spanish and the American public for that matter so they can fully communicate with this growing segment of the population. Do you have any objection to Spanish joining English as the official languages of this country?

106 posted on 12/10/2007 11:27:46 AM PST by kabar
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To: SuziQ
but I don't see many illegal MEXICAN immigrants

Now that is truly an amazing statement. It validates my impression that you only see things from a northeastern perspective.

The county of Los Angeles has something over 2 million illegals. One county. And that's probably a low number. No one would dispute it, either. In fact, to Mexico, it's seen as a source of pride - they have taken over, and they know it. The Gringo can do nothing now. They smirk and laugh -- do you recall that from that "inconsequential" demonstration you saw last year? That was 500,000 people.

In California altogether it's on the order of 4 million or more. The mayor of Los Angeles is this terrorist (and I do mean that word in its literal sense): Bruin Alumni Association on Antonio Villaraigosa . How do you think he got to be Mayor of the Second Largest City in the United States? White liberals?

You minimise this? Say that you don't see many Mexican illegals? Where have you been - Norway? California and Texas will be majority Mexican within a decade - up from 4% in 1970. And for the previous 140 years. Have you ever been here, for more than a day or two?

The illegals in my area of the country are more likely from the former Soviet states, or Ireland

And is your area slated to become majority Russian soon? Вы говорите по-русски? No? Then you have no idea what is happening here.

Look up the demographics of the Los Angeles Unified School District. It's online. "Non-hispanic white" is now so small, it's in the "other" category. Seriously. The Americans are gone. You can talk all you want about "well those kids are American now too" but what does it mean to transfer a label like that to people who are simply the nationals of another country? I mean, we could go to Ecuador and label everyone "Americans" but that wouldn't make it true. And Mexico is actually even further away, because it is hostile to America, something Ecuador probably isn't.

It's over here. One of the most beautiful parts of America - Southern California - is now occupied and ruled by the citizens of another country. The remaining Americans are literally just treading water or leaving - they know what's coming. Tax hikes, language isolation (try getting a job with LAUSD or LA city / county without speaking Spanish), ethnic intimidation and preferences for their friends: they know how to do it. They've been planning it for years. The immivasion is part of that plan: get a critical mass here, make them voters any way they can (laws? we don't need no stinking laws..they can vota!)...and seize power. And wealth. They have no intention of assimilating - that's referred to as being a vendido -- literally, a sell-out.

This is what it has come to here. And you say you don't see many illegals from Mexico? Lady, that's all we see -- everywhere around us! MILLIONS, literally.

They plan to take what the Americans built. It's what they and their Spaniard ancestors do. They aren't Americans and they have no intention of being them. They'd laugh at you if you said that. Or grin, and smirk to themselves, because they just ran into another wide eyed sucker who bought the line.

107 posted on 12/10/2007 11:35:37 AM PST by Regulator
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To: tyke; kabar
It's a free country, and even if English was to become the official language, there is nothing to stop millions of Hispanic voters from preferring Spanish as their language of choice

You just made the supreme mistake of the Baby Boomers.

"It's a free country" -- does not mean that anyone can do anything without limit. It simply means that we have no King, we have no monarchy, we rule ourselves and make our own laws.

And the people who did that spoke English, and their nation was formed around a Constitution - an agreement - written in that language, and the people who spoke it.

Invasion is not a civil right. There is no right for the Chinese people to land in Los Angeles, set up the New Middle Kingdom, and declare Mandarin the official language of government and commerce.

That's treason against the Americans. And war.

And the same rules apply to the citizens of Mexico.

There is no right to colonize and invade the United States. That is not what freedom means.

108 posted on 12/10/2007 11:41:19 AM PST by Regulator
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To: Regulator
This is what Germany requires for its applicants for citizensip:

"Among other things, prospective citizens must take 650 hours of language instruction as well as demonstrate knowledge of the German constitution... More importantly, in order for Turks to naturalize they must demonstrate that they have renounced their Turkish citizenship, and since 2000 they must sign a document stating that they will not acquire a second citizenship. If they do acquire a second citizenship, they immediately lose their German one. Before 2000, many Turks, when they renounced their Turkish citizenship, were told by the Turkish embassy that they could reacquire Turkish citizenship after they obtained their German citizenship."

"The German government, in the context of highly politicized elections, however, has begun to enforce the denaturalization of those Turks who reacquired Turkish citizenship, and it is estimated that approximately 50,000 Turks have lost their German citizenship."

109 posted on 12/10/2007 11:52:25 AM PST by kabar
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To: kabar
The Germans only made the Turks citizens under pressure from the EU. Originally there was no plan to do so.

Even these requirements are considered liberal for them.

There's nothing more permanent then temporary workers.

And you know how the Swiss recently voted.

110 posted on 12/10/2007 12:02:03 PM PST by Regulator (Immivasion = Suicide)
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To: Regulator
The Germans only made the Turks citizens under pressure from the EU. Originally there was no plan to do so. Even these requirements are considered liberal for them. There's nothing more permanent then temporary workers.

I lived four years in Berlin and my wife is German. I am very familiar with the problem. We should learn from it.

Germany's Second Doubts About Its Turkish Immigrants

111 posted on 12/10/2007 12:07:38 PM PST by kabar
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To: Regulator
Now that is truly an amazing statement. It validates my impression that you only see things from a northeastern perspective.

As I said, you are seeing it from YOUR perspective, which is skewed to your geographic location. Again, you have all the Reconquista radicals bloviating in your area. Do you truly think that ALL immigrants from Mexico agree with them? All black folks certainly didn't agree with the Black Power folks in the 70's. I equate the two because their methods are exactly the same.

112 posted on 12/10/2007 1:03:56 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: SuziQ; Regulator
The problem is metastasizing all over the country. The Northeast is still the least affected. I suggest you look at the following to gain an appreciation for the scope and breadth of the problem. Like the frog who is put in cold water and then slowly has the the temperature increased until it realizes too late that it is being boiled alive, the US is just starting to realize the extent and nature of the problem. Your anecdotal observations in MA are just that. They are not reflective of what is going on in most of the country.

Where Immigrants Live An Examination of State Residency of the Foreign Born by Country of Origin in 1990 and 2000

Immigrants in the United States, 2007 A Profile of America’s Foreign-Born Population

100 Million More Projecting the Impact of Immigration On the U.S. Population, 2007 to 2060

The Hispanic Challenge By Samuel P. Huntington

113 posted on 12/10/2007 2:21:08 PM PST by kabar
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To: La Enchiladita

I had a feeling they would spend a lot more time on immigration. Legal Hispanic citizens that have worked with the system, do not want their citizenship cheapened by a continued flood of illegals. This is a point Republicans never seemed to have grasped.

I don’t think there were any suprises from the candidates. I thought Romney and Thompson both did well also.

114 posted on 12/10/2007 2:59:49 PM PST by TheLion
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To: kabar
Your anecdotal observations in MA are just that. They are not reflective of what is going on in most of the country.

There are more places than just the Northeast that are not experiencing the influx of Mexican illegals. I'm sure folks along the Mexican border have trouble with illegals; it's been happening for years. Your comment could be turned around to claim that your observations of what your area is experiencing isn't reflective of what is going on in the rest of the country. My point is that the activists make a lot of noise, and get a lot of press. It has always been so, but it doesn't mean that we are being 'invaded' as some want to claim.

115 posted on 12/10/2007 3:48:03 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: Regulator
Eh, what? There are 40 million Hispanic American citizens in this country. Where's the invasion? They're already here, and legally. If you object to past American policies of immigration, then fine, but calling wanting be able to speak the language of your birth the same as treason, colonization, or invasion is idiotic.

There is a rational debate to be had over the merits of having all American citizens speaking a common language, English. Hysteria over some mythological Latino invasion and takeover does nothing to inform that debate, and will simply hasten the day when no Spanish-speaking American will want to vote for the Republican party.

116 posted on 12/10/2007 4:08:39 PM PST by tyke
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To: SuziQ
There are more places than just the Northeast that are not experiencing the influx of Mexican illegals. I'm sure folks along the Mexican border have trouble with illegals; it's been happening for years. Your comment could be turned around to claim that your observations of what your area is experiencing isn't reflective of what is going on in the rest of the country

You need to access the links I provided to you, especially the first two. It has nothing to do with my personal observations. Look at the data and then let's talk.

My point is that the activists make a lot of noise, and get a lot of press. It has always been so, but it doesn't mean that we are being 'invaded' as some want to claim.

You live in a dream world. The BP apprehends over a million people a year coming across our border. There is an estimated 500,000 to 1,000,000 that get through annually. If that can't be termed an invasion, what can?

117 posted on 12/10/2007 4:16:13 PM PST by kabar
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To: tyke
There is a rational debate to be had over the merits of having all American citizens speaking a common language, English. Hysteria over some mythological Latino invasion and takeover does nothing to inform that debate, and will simply hasten the day when no Spanish-speaking American will want to vote for the Republican party.


118 posted on 12/10/2007 6:37:16 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: SuziQ

Fred has always thought that the FEDERAL government should not be involved in the abortion decision, but he personally believes that the unborn child is a human being, and has been saying just that.
***He “personally” believes it, and yet he says on abortion: “Government should stay out of it... The ultimate decision must be made by the women...”

He has seen what has happened because of the Supreme Court decision, which took any semblance of voter involvement out of the issue. What we have today is polarization because people believe, quite rightly, that their opinions are not being heard and that their efforts to reduce abortion are being blocked because of the Roe v Wade roadblock.
***I agree with this.

I say that politicians claiming to support the HLA are pandering because they can talk until they are blue in the face, but they won’t get the Amendment passed, so they’re not saving one single baby with all their talking.
***This appears to be the crux of your argument. Today, there are several HLA amendments being introduced for voter approval through initiative processes in several states. And yet this is just “pandering”. NO, it is one of the ways that pro-life activists are seeking an end to this holocaust. The fact that it does not have the support of Fred but has the support of Hunter is very telling. Hunter is the better pro-life conservative.
We’ve already seen that having both the White House and Congress in Republican hands didn’t do anything to move that along.
***Fascinating. These observations are exactly the same that the rudytoots used in support of their candidate.

Why not look at other ways to solve the problem?
***I do. Pro-life activists do. But in your support of a candidate who has a reasonably good pro-life record you have twisted yourself into a pretzel because he doesn’t support some of these activities, and he has some notable pro-choice quotes as well as a previous pro-choice client.

What Fred has proposed is something that could be done within the next few years, as members of the Supreme court retire, or die, and need to be replaced.
***You do not address the contention that Fred simply wants this issue to go away.
He has already said that he would appoint strict constructionists to the Court who do not believe that is in the Court’s purview to legislate from the bench. This attitude would go beyond unlimited abortion to homosexual ‘marriage’ and other societal changes that liberals love to force on the populace through Court mandates, because they know that those things would likely never pass if the voters got the chance to weigh in on them.
***I would support this activity as well. I support pro-life activity wherever I see it.
If Roe v Wade is overturned, the major stumbling block to states in their efforts to severely restrict abortion will have been removed. This would result in thousands of babies being saved each year because women would no longer have that ‘back up birth control’, and would likely change their behavior because of it.
***Of course we should try to see Roe v Wade overturned. We should also seek alternatives that do not require the overturning of Roe V Wade such as the personhood-at-conception initiative that Hunter supports, the kind of thing that you call pandering.

It would also mean that every voter would have the chance to made a difference in his or her own state regarding abortion, and not feel like the issue is completely out of their hands. Yes, there will be some states that allow the practice, but even then, you will see that voters will be loathe to allow it for more than the hard cases like REPORTED rape or incest, or in the case of a direct threat to the LIFE of the mother.
***For those who see abortion as murder, federalizing this problem is not a very good solution. We don’t see the feds allowing states to have laws that say it’s okay to murder non-viable children, so why is federalizing the approach towards non-viable preborn humans considered superior? The age of viability used to be 6 years old in Common Law England, and it had shrunk to less than 1 year by the time the Supreme Court deliberated over this issue, relying considerably on the age of viability as a physical threshold. Of course it makes no sense to anyone that a 1 year old baby is truly “viable”, but they recognized that society has resources that it brings to bear upon this question. Well, the same is true now for premature babies and others which have society extending the resource of medical attention and even In Utero surgeries. The age of viability has shrunk to basically -3 months, but women still have the right to kill that baby. Fred’s approach is to find a way to get it out of his hair. Hunter’s approach is to find a way to save the most lives.

119 posted on 12/11/2007 11:26:49 AM PST by Kevmo (We should withdraw from Iraq via Tehran. And Duncan Hunter is just the man to get that job done.)
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma

Kevmo: If the liberal evangelical Huckabee can take the lead from out of nowhere, so can Hunter the true conservative evangelical. .
Conservativegreatgrandma: But he needs the help of the MSM and he’s not going to get it.
***Hunter’s strategy could rely upon the MSM being itself rather than hoping for a leg up from them. Once the GOP decides upon a candidate, the MSM will turn on him in a very fierce manner. Only a true conservative would survive this refining fire process.

Here’s a couple of examples: Bill Sali in Idaho and Proposition 187 in California. Both had been excoriated by the MSM and polls showed both losing by wide margins up to the day of the election, and both won by wide margins. Reagan is in the same mold. The secret is to get the MSM into such an irrational, anti-conservative frenzy that they fall all overthemselves to criticize the candidate and what America notices is that the media is criticising someone like them. The backlash is what the media cannot see because they’re so blind to their own bias — like Dan Rather.

120 posted on 12/11/2007 11:42:48 AM PST by Kevmo (We should withdraw from Iraq via Tehran. And Duncan Hunter is just the man to get that job done.)
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