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To: ALPAPilot
"to cite any founding era idea of "collective" rights."

You need to define "collective". If you mean an individual right that is only exercised collectively, then there is the right to vote, the right to assemble, and the right to keep and bear arms as a member of a well regulated state Militia.

29 posted on 12/17/2007 2:51:29 PM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
...the right to keep and bear arms as a member of a well regulated state Militia.

Are all members of the militia people or are all people members of the militia? Do I have a right to keep and bear arms because I am a person or because I am eligible for the militia?

If I am too old for militia duty, or say, wheelchair bound, do I still have the right to keep and bear?

37 posted on 12/17/2007 7:32:54 PM PST by groanup (When companies fail they go out of business. When a gov't project fails it gets bigger. M.F.)
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To: robertpaulsen
and the right to keep and bear arms as a member of a well regulated state Militia.

A member of a well regulated state Militia does not necessarily have the right to keep and bear arms.

The governor or commander could issue an order to those under his command to disarm. Congress may lawfully remove it by taking command of the state Militia and issuing an order to disarm. See I.8.15 & I.8.16.

How does the Second Amendment prevent that?

38 posted on 12/17/2007 8:11:15 PM PST by Ken H
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