Church Separation The Mormons still haven't settled their race problem.

The Wall Street Journal ^ | Friday, December 21, 2007 | JASON L. RILEY

[RCFlyer]

...Mormonism was a defiantly apartheid faith that denied blacks full participation based on doctrinal beliefs that whites are "pure" and "delightsome," while black-skinned people are "unrighteous," "despised" and "loathsome" descendants of the biblical Cain, who was cursed for killing Abel.

The priesthood proscription, which operated under a "one-drop rule," wasn't in place simply to keep blacks out of leadership posts. Ultimately, the ban was a manifestation of a central belief that blacks are unfit to be full members of the church on Earth, or to exist alongside whites in heaven...

Mormon leaders were applauded for finally ending the prohibition. But according to Mr. Mauss, the church has never repudiated the teachings that supported the policy. In 2004, he wrote, "ironically, the doctrinal folklore that many of us thought had been discredited, or at least made moot, through the 1978 revelation, continued to appear . . . [in church literature] written well after 1978 and continues to be taught by well-meaning teachers and leaders in the church to this very day." And "Mormon America," which was just re-released, notes plainly that "Mormon teaching against race-mixing remains in force."

Throughout his current campaign for the Republican nomination, Mr. Romney has declined to distance himself from the repugnant racial teachings of his church...

In his ballyhooed speech earlier this month, Mr. Romney said he wouldn't renounce any of Mormonism's precepts. And for all his claims to the contrary, Mr. Romney has, in fact, been willing to distance himself from past teachings of the church--just not those having to do with its treatment of black people...

[colorcountry]

Here's your Utah demographics. Yep those Mormons sure open their arms to minorities. /sarc

Utah

Want more? Browse data sets for Utah

	People QuickFacts	Utah	USA
	Population, 2006 estimate	2,550,063	299,398,484
	Population, percent change, April 1, 2000 to July 1, 2006	14.2%	6.4%
	Population, 2000	2,233,169	281,421,906
	Persons under 5 years old, percent, 2005	9.5%	6.8%
	Persons under 18 years old, percent, 2005	30.1%	24.8%
	Persons 65 years old and over, percent, 2005	8.7%	12.4%
	Female persons, percent, 2005	49.8%	50.7%
	White persons, percent, 2005 (a)	93.8%	80.2%
	Black persons, percent, 2005 (a)	1.0%	12.8%
	American Indian and Alaska Native persons, percent, 2005 (a)	1.3%	1.0%
	Asian persons, percent, 2005 (a)	1.9%	4.3%
	Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander, percent, 2005 (a)	0.7%	0.2%
	Persons reporting two or more races, percent, 2005	1.3%	1.5%
	Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin, percent, 2005 (b)	10.9%	14.4%
	White persons not Hispanic, percent, 2005	83.5%	66.9%

[GOPPachyderm]

I think we would agree that discrimination is wrong wherever it is found. However, I think you have to ask whether discrimination is in accord with scripture? You can’t justify discrimination in the Bible, but Momon prophets made it established policy.

IOW, Christians practiced discrimination contrary to scripture; Mormons practiced because it was doctrine of the LDS prophets.

[VegasBaby]

My point is that you are trying to paint Utahns (and by extension, Mormons) as racists who are unwilling to welcome blacks into their communities. I’m simply pointing out to you that that mentality is incorrect. What’s funny to me is that for years and years blacks had been warned about those “racist” Mormons, yet the ones that I’ve met over the years have, for the most part, really come to enjoy living here.

[Colofornian]

As for the "theological" side of this, the LDS doctrine of how an alleged "pre-existence" effects people in this world hasn't just been aimed at blacks. (For Mormon expositions on blacks 50+ years ago, see the last 2 graphs...but first notice how LDS theology addressed Asians).

Consider this address by Elder Mark E. Petersen at the convention of Teachers of Religion on the College Level at BYU (Aug. 27, 1954):

"Let us consider the great mercy of God for a moment. A Chinese, born in China with a dark skin, and with all the hadicaps [sic] of that race seems to have little opportunity. But think of the mercy of God to Chinese people who are willing to accept the gospel. In spite of whatever they might have done in the pre-existence to justify being born over there as Chinamen, if they now, in this life, accept the gospel and live it the rest of their lvies they can can the Priesthood, go to the temple and receive endowments and sealings, and that means they can have exaltation. Isn't the mercy of God marvelous?"

"exaltation" in LDSese=become a god.

Petersen went on to say: "Now what is our policy in regard to inter-marriage? As to the Negre [sic], of course, there is only one possible answer. We must not intermarry with the Negro. Why? If I were to marry a Negro woman and have children by her, my children would all be cursed as to the priesthood. Do I want my children cursed as to the priesthood? If there is one drop of Negro blood in my children, as I have read to you, they receive the curse. There isn't any argument, therefore, as to inter-marriage with the Negro, is there? There are 50 million Negroes in the United States. If they were to achieve complete absorbtion [sic] with the white race, think what that would do. With 50 million negroes inter-married with us, where would the priesthood be? Who could hold it, in all America? Think what that would do to the work of the Church!"

Petersen went on in his patronizing, segregating way: "Now we are generous with the negro. We are willing that the Negro have the highest kind of education. I would be willing to let every Negro drive a cadillac if they could afford it. I would be willing that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the world. But let them enjoy these things among themselves. I think the Lord segregated the Negro and who is man to change that segregation?"

[Mr. Brightside]

He is a loathsome, offensive brute, yet I can't look away.

And his buttocks are sublime!

[VegasBaby]

Nice try, but your stats pit Utah against the whole of the United States (including the South where their American ancestors originated via the slave trade). That’s hardly a fair comparison. I would daresay that if you looked at the statistics of the Mountain West states as a whole (i.e. Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Utah, Colorado) or even the plain states (the Dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas, etc.) the proportion of minorities to whites would be pretty similar.

[puroresu]

Good point. One of the reasons I worry about giving Mitt the nomination is that there will be people turned off by the fact that he’s Mormon.

I’ve never discounted the willingness of the left to attack people because of their faith. It’s difficult nowadays to get a Christian confirmed to a judgeship. I still recall Judge Pryor being raked over the coals because he belongs to a church that doesn’t ordain women and because he refused to take his small children to DisneyWorld on “gay day”.

I’m not a Huckabee supporter but on another recent thread, someone dredged up the fact that he once signed onto a document endorsing the husband’s leadership role in his family. On the basis of that, we were told that Huckabee’s a “sexist” and that Americans will roundly reject “sexism” in the White House.

The question is, when the zeitgeist is demanding that we move ever more toward secularism and leftism, should we join in the chorus? I just try to look two decades down the road to see where we’re headed. Eventually, even Republican candidates will be expected to renounce their own church and/or Biblical passages deemed “sexist” or “homophobic” to get the presidential nod. I don’t want to see that.

[colorcountry]

Mitt still sustains the doctrine of his Church. It is racist doctrine, IMO. Readers are free to determine if the following are racist doctrin. If so, why doesn’t Mitt repudiate them?

“Mormon Racism as Doctrine, Not Merely Folklore or Tradition

“Mormon Scripture: God Curses Bad Races with Black Skin

“2 Nephi 5:21: ‘And the Lord had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.’

“Alma 3: 6: ‘And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.’

“3 Nephi 2:14-15: ‘And it came to pass that those Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites; And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites;’

“Moses 7:22: ‘And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them.’

“Abraham 1:21-24,27: ‘Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth. From this descent sprang all the Egyptians, and thus the blood of the Canaanites was preserved in the land. The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden; When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land. . . . Now, Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood, notwithstanding the Pharaohs would fain claim it from Noah, through Ham, therefore my father was led away by their idolatry;’
_____

“Official LDS Church Publications Explain Racist LDS Scriptures

“’The Book of Abraham is rich both in doctrine and in historical incidents. Of the latter the fact of the large influence (if not identity) of Egyptian religious ideas in Chaldea in the days of Abraham is established; the descent of the black race, Negro, from Cain, the first murderer; the preservation of that race through the flood by the wife of Ham—”Egyptus,” which in the Chaldean signifies “Egypt,” “which signifies that which is forbidden”—the descendants of “Egyptus” were cursed as pertaining to the priesthood—that is, they were barred from holding that divine power; the origin also of the Egyptians—these things, together with the account of Abraham migrating from Chaldea to Egypt, constitute the chief historical items that are contained in the book.’
(”Comprehensive History of the Church,” Vol.2, Ch.47, p.128)

“’From this it is very clear that the mark which was set upon the descendants of Cain was a skin of blackness, and there can be no doubt that this was the mark that Cain himself received; in fact, it has been noticed in our day that men who have lost the spirit of the Lord, and from whom His blessings have been withdrawn, have turned dark to such an extent as to excite the comments of all who have known them.’ (”Juvenile Instructor,” vol. 26, p. 635)

“’We will first inquire into the results of the approbation or displeasure of God upon a people, starting with the belief that a black skin is a mark of the curse of heaven placed upon some portions of mankind. Some, however, will argue that a black skin is not a curse, nor a white skin a blessing. In fact, some have been so foolish as to believe and say that a black skin is a blessing, and that the negro is the finest type of a perfect man that exists on the earth; but to us such teachings are foolishness.

“’We understand that when God made man in his own image and pronounced him very good, that he made him white. We have no record of any of God’s favored servants being of a black race....every angel who ever brought a message of God’s mercy to man was beautiful to look upon, clad in the purest white and with a countenance bright as the noonday sun.’
(”The Juvenile Instructor,” Vol. 3, p. 157)

“’For instance, the descendants of Cain cannot cast off their skin of blackness, at once, and immediately, although every soul of them should repent, . . . Cain and his posterity must wear the mark which God put upon them; and his white friends may wash the race of Cain with fuller’s soap every day, they cannot wash away God’s mark;. . .’
(”The Millennial Star,” vol. 14, p. 418)

“’Their skin is quite black, their hair woolly and black, their intelligence stunted, and they appear never to have arisen from the most savage state of barbarism.’ (”The Juvenile Instructor,” Vol. 3, p. 157)

“’Is or is it not apparent from reason and analogy as drawn from a careful reading of the Scriptures, that God causes the saints, or people that fall away from his church to be cursed in time, with a black skin?

“’Was or was not Cain, being marked, obliged to inherit the curse, he and his children, forever?

‘”And if so, as Ham, like other sons of God, might break the rule of God, by marrying out of the church, did or did he not, have a Canaanite wife, whereby some of the black seed was preserved through the flood, and his son, Canaan, after he laughed at his grandfather’s nakedness, heired three curses: one from Cain for killing Abel; one from Ham for marrying a black wife, and one from Noah for ridiculing what God had respect for?

“’Are or are not the Indians a sample of marking with blackness for rebellion against God’s holy word and holy order?

“’And can or can we not observe in the countenances of almost all nations, except the Gentile, a dark, sallow hue, which tells the sons of God, without a line of history, that they have fallen or changed from the original beauty and grace of father Adam?’ (”LDS Messenger and Advocate,” March 1835, p .82)

“’History and common observation show that these predictions have been fulfilled to the letter. The descendants of Ham, besides a black skin which has ever been a curse that has followed an apostate of the holy priesthood, as well as a black heart, have been servants to both Shem and Japheth, and the abolitionists are trying to make void the curse of God, but it will require more power than man possesses to counteract the decrees of eternal wisdom.’ (”Times and Seasons,” Vol.6, p. 857)
_____

“The LDS Church’s racism isn’t just from some isolated quote from one or two church leaders. The racist teaching from the Mormon pulpit is prolific and consistent over time. If God didn’t agree with his prophets teaching these things in His church, then why did they continue over generations?

“There’s a big difference between folklore and Mormon scripture. When the president and prophet of the church stands at the pulpit and teaches the laws of God, that isn’t folklore.

“The list of ‘inspired’ LDS Prophets that have taught racist doctrine from the pulpit is too large to cite here. But here’s a sampling:

http://www.realmormonhistory.com/god&skin.htm

“Some church members make the mistake of dismissing the racist statements of 19th-century Mormon leaders as ‘their own opinion,’ ‘not official doctrine,’ ‘products of their times,’ etc.

“Those same church members assert that the only ‘official doctrine’ is the ‘Standard Works’ and official statements of the First Presidency, and that if some leaders said something that didn’t come from those sources, it isn’t ‘binding on the membership,’ and it isn’t ‘canon’ or “official doctrine.”

“However, an official statement of the LDS Church First Presidency issued on August 17, 1951, reads:

“’The position of the Church regarding the Negro may be understood when another doctrine of the church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the pre-mortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality, and that while the details of this principle have not been made known, the principle itself indicates that the coming to this earth and taking on mortality is a privilege that is given to those who maintained their first estate; and that the worth of the privilege is so great that spirits are willing to come to earth and take on bodies no matter what the handicap may be as to the kind of bodies they are to secure; and that among the
handicaps, failure of the right to enjoy in mortality the blessings of the priesthood is a handicap which spirits are willing to assume in order that they might come to earth. Under this principle there is no injustice whatsoever involved in this deprivation as to the holding of the priesthood by the Negroes. . . .

“’Man will be punished for his own sins and not for Adam’s transgression. If this is carried further, it would imply that the Negro is punished or alloted to a certain position on this earth, not because of Cain’s transgression, but came to earth through the loins of Cain because of his failure to achieve other stature in the spirit world.’
(William E. Berrett’s “The Church and the Negroid People,” pp. 16-17)’

“Since it’s obvious from this official First Presidency statement that church leaders taught and believed that people are born as Negroes because of their behavior in the pre-existence—

“—as well as being from the lineage of the ‘accursed’ Cain;

“—and the “sign” of Cain’s curse was the black skin and flat nose, according to church leaders;

“—then the fact that Negroes are still being born by the tens of thousands every day tells us that the God of Mormonism has never lifted the ‘curse of Cain,’ despite having the priesthood ban rescinded.

“Church members are terribly mistaken when they say that the ‘curse of Cain’ teachings were ‘folklore’ and ‘not official doctrine.”

http://i4m.com/think/history/mormon_racism.htm

[colorcountry]

Nice try, but your stats pit Utah against the whole of the United States

Ummmmm, that was my point!

[puroresu]

You sound like you have some kind of personal axe to grind on this issue. It’s really reaching the point of being just plain silly.

[colorcountry]

Montana, Idaho, Wyoming and Utah are disproportionally Mormon, so there stats only prove my point. But lets look at Nebraska who has four TIMES the population of Black residents than Utah.

http://www.infoplease.com/us/census/data/nebraska/demographic.html

Nevada (Utah’s neighbor) comes in at 7.5% or seven times the number of blacks.

Arizona (another neighbor) has 3.6%

Seems to me, like Blacks are staying away from Mormon States at a much higher percentage than even the neighboring States.....I wonder why?

[colorcountry]

And I value your opinion.

[VegasBaby]

Okay, well if that was your point, then are you willing to also accuse the other states I mentioned of a “not-in-my-backyard” mentality? Let me give you an example: North Dakota—hardly a great bastian of the LDS religion. Did you know that North Dakota was over 92% white according to the U.S. Census Bureau’s “Annual Estimates of the Population by Race Alone and Hispanic or Latino Origin for the United States and States: July 1, 2005”? Wanna see?

http://www.census.gov/popest/states/asrh/SC-EST2005-04.html

According to the same report, North Dakota is only 0.1% black. Uh-oh...Utah is only 83.5% white and 1% black, according to your statistics. That’s it! North Dakotans are racists, too! /sarc

[VegasBaby]

See post 153.

[VegasBaby]

Well, technically, both Nevada and Arizona are disproportionately Mormon, too, when compared to the rest of the country, so pointing out that they have much higher black populations means nothing.

[Binghamton_native]

As a matter of fact, post #15 seems to make just the opposite point than that for which it was intended.

[puroresu]

Nevada (Utah’s neighbor) comes in at 7.5% or seven times the number of blacks.

And Nevada has a good-sized Mormon population. And the Dakotas, which have few blacks, don't have all that many Mormons.

Scylla on the one hand, Charibdes on the other!

By the way, just how many blacks is Utah supposed to have? Pacific Islanders? Eskimos? Italians? Japanese?

[Larry Lucido]

Waitress at Monk’s, handing Elaine a menu: “Here you go.”
Elaine, to the black waitress: “Long day?”
Waitress: “Yeah, I just worked a triple shift.”
Elaine: “I hear ya, Sister.”
Waitress: “Sister?”
Elaine, as Darryl comes into Monk’s: “Yeah. It’s OK. My boyfriend’s black.
Here he is. See?”
Darryl: “Hi, Elaine.”
Elaine: “Hey.”
Waitress: “He’s black?”
Elaine: “Yeah.”
Darryl: “I’m black?”
Elaine: “Aren’t you?”
Waitress, leaving: “I’ll give you a couple minutes to decide.”
Darryl: “What are you talking about?”
Elaine: “You’re black. You said we were an interracial couple.”
Darryl: “We are. Because you’re Hispanic.”
Elaine: “I am?”
Darryl: “Aren’t you?”
Elaine: “No. Why would you think that?”
Darryl: “Your name’s Benes, your hair, and you kept taking me to those
Spanish restaurants.”
Elaine: “That’s because I thought you were black.”
Darryl: “Why would you take me to a Spanish restaurant because I’m black?”
Elaine: “I don’t think we should be talking about this.”
Darryl: “So, what are you?”
Elaine: “I’m white.”
Darryl: “So, we’re just a couple of white people?”
Elaine: “I guess.”
Darryl: “Oh.”
Elaine: “Yeah. So do you want to go to the Gap?”
Darryl, leaving with Elaine: “Sure.”

[VegasBaby]

Thanks for your post. I agree with it completely. I lived in Las Vegas for 6 years and the LDS population is prominent there. In fact, it made me chuckle because I worked for an international accounting firm and we’d recruit people from all over the country and they would be amazed when they came to work for our office because of our 60+ employees, 15 of them were Mormon. It was not what they expected to find in a city like Las Vegas. LOL

[Colofornian]

“However, an official statement of the LDS Church First Presidency issued on August 17, 1951, reads...(William E. Berrett’s “The Church and the Negroid People,” pp. 16-17)’.

Yes, and this statement also said that those "cursed with a skin of blackness...will go down to death. And when all the rest of the children have received their blessings in the holy priesthood, then that curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will then come up and possess the priesthood, and receive all the blessings which we now are entitled to."

In other words, opening up the priesthood to blacks is a post-resurrection event in historic LDS teaching.

In Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. 2, p. 188, the 10th president-prophet of the LDS church (Joseph Fielding Smith) agreed with Brigham Young that this "curse" would be removed--but "that will have to be in the far distant future...on some other world..."

In that same book, JFSmith states that "technically the black skin was not the curse, but the mark of the curse." (p. 175)

So here's the question based on historic LDS theology. Now that they've been teaching for almost 30 years that the alleged "curse" has been lifted, why don't LDS believe that the mark of the curse (what Joseph Fielding Smith tagged as the "black skin" itself), be removed? (In fact, in the Book of Mormon, we read of such an event):

"And it came to pass that those Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites; and their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites; and their young men and their daughters became exceedingly fair..." (3 Nephi 2:14-16)

So what we're talking about here is not just the "treatment" of blacks...as if that was the lone issue...'cause certainly you can pile that up with historic ill treatment of blacks from many quarters, not just LDSism.

What we have here is the Mormon god who supposedly curses people with a skin color (for the Lamanites it was "red" rather than "black") all because they were "less valiant" (neutral vs. taking sides) in some spirit world long ago before any of these folks were supposedly even born.

Now either both historic and contemporary Mormons still believe the Book of Mormon and LDS prophets like Brigham Young & Joseph Fielding Smith, or they don't. But if they don't, may I suggest that they go the next step and as they conclude that these so-called "prophets" taught the tall tales about skin color that they also describe these "prophets" for what they really were: False prophets!