Posted on 12/22/2007 7:45:57 PM PST by fkabuckeyesrule
That's as far as I had to go to see the fallacy in his support.
Read Malachi 3:10. It tells us to bring the tithes into the storehouse. Today, the storehouse is the local church. Also, read II Corinthians chapters 8 and 9. These chapters teach the importance of giving money to God’s work.
IICorinthians 8 and 9 are follow-up from previous writing to them of Macedonia. I find no pass the plate instruction given.
“2) Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah;
Well then he is a heretic.”
I stand in agreement with you.
I would like to know how he fools so many people. He may receive a salary, but ministers all over America have the plate passed when they have need or want to travel.
He is paid many times when he speaks at other churches. The reason I know this is that my baby brother is a minister and every time he travels to share Gods word he is paid very well. He said that is the way it works.
I have asked him many times why he expects payment for speaking on salvation through the acceptance of Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. He has yet to give me a well defined answer.
I don’t think it is wrong to ask for traveling expenses or the other needs that go with traveling to another part of the country. As long as God is meeting our needs (not our wants) ministers should not charge for speaking at other churches.
What is freely given we should freely give. Remember that I said as long as the ministers needs are being met by God. Then again they should not charge but allow the congregation to give an offering and trust God to meet the need. Trusting God for many now days seems a bit old fashioned
Our country has changed drastically in the past thirty or so years. Mega churches are everywhere and many are very extravagant. Instead of taking new converts and disciplining them in the word of God to a point where they can go out and share God’s word, they just keep building bigger churches. They like to boast about the number of people in their body.
Television ministers are ripping off the elderly ,widowed and sick. Their greed is bringing God’s judgment on us as well as the things we are not doing things about, such as abortion and I just don’t have the answer as to how we should deal with those who murder the innocent precious babies. All I can say is, God forgive me for being such a failure.
The sad part about all this is all the different denominations we have in our country. They all say they are right and the others are wrong. I really wish we cold all come together in one mind and one accord and worship God without all the legalism that we see today.
Luke 10:1-8
[1] After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go. [2] He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field. [3] Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves. [4] Do not take a purse or bag or sandals; and do not greet anyone on the road.
Exactly!
Please read post 90.
Your response to 11bravo wolfhoundf shows a willingness on your part to ignore facts that clarify a previous misunderstanding.
You’ve been active on this thread from its beginning and have should have previously read post 90, which shows the Hagee-doesn’t-believe-Jesus-is-the-messiah lie.
11bravo apparently hasn’t read that far into the thread yet, but you have. Perhaps a refresher on post 90 would benefit you.
`You were right alnick. I skipped post 90 because I believe Pastor Hagge has walked away from his first love of our Lord and Savior. You see, I watched his sermon for several years and many things he preached led me to seek my Lord with all my heart.
I watched him when he appeared on other shows and I saw a side of him that was so phony I couldn’t believe it. He was on the pathetic Paul and Jan Crouch show one night and he made me sick at the way he kissed their backsides. Had he had his first love for God he would have called them out for being such phonies. The more money the big boy’s make and the more famous they become seems to blind them to the real world. I heard him say that if you tithed God you would prosper and if you didn’t you were robbing God. That’s true, but I would like to see him try to feed his family on minimum wage and try to cloth and feed them. He is a sit thou here preacher and he makes me sick.
There is not one mega church living by the word as Jesus did. The front row of their churches are filed with those who are not sick or needy. They fill the front row with what I have heard some ministers call “quality people.” That is a term for people with money.
You and others may disagree as to their being phonies. That is your decision and your’s alone. I will say this though, One night I saw David Wilkerson put Paul and Jan in their place and he did it in a redeeming way. I have much respect for David Wilkerson.
There are many people who just adore the Paul and Jan Crouch show ,but I am no one of ‘em. Shows such as their’s and others like them stink in the nostrils of God. While their is some good in their shows, by and large they are just phonies getting rich from the money they receive from the elderly, sick,and disabled.
Let me give you an example of how these mega ministries rip people off.
I used to watch TBN all the time and would pray and seek God all the time. One night during a commercial it was announced that Jimmy Swaggart would be in Atlanta on so and so date and I made arrangements for someone to take me to hear him. We waited for a couple of hours for swaggart to appear and in the mean time his son was making deals with people to support their ministry.
Now I am way up in the balcony and I can see the hands go up each time he makes a new offer on a bible. He said if you give twenty-five dollars you will get this little bible. It was about the size of the one I carried in my shirt pocket in Nam.I watched as the hands went up and noticed it was mostly elderly people.
Long story short. I don’t recall exactly how many times he offered a new bible but each time the bible got bigger and more expensive. After two or more hours of his son making his pitch he held up the biggest bible I had ever seen and said, For (can’t remember exact amount and do not want to lie)X amount of dollars you will receive this bible. It was somewhere between a thousand and five-thousand dollars. I instantly thought about the elderly people I saw digging through their purse to buy the small bible and thought how they must have wanted the big bible.
By the time Swaggarts son had finished I was so disgusted,tired and worn out that I wanted to go home but the person who took me said we had to stay. The singing was ok and the word was wonderful, but I could not get over how they manipulated people into supporting their mission. I felt they were phonies and that one day Swaggart would pay for the way he picked the pocket of the elderly. It wasn’t long after that he fell.
James Robison probably said how and why I feel by these mega churches as I do. One day at the end of his show he told of an experience he had. He said that as he left the church he had preached at an old man came up to him a told him how much he enjoyed the service and how much he loved God. Pastor Robinson said he ran to his car and began to cry. Her he was with new shoes and clothes and he was not satisfied with his life but the old mans cloths were tattered and torn, but was very happy with his love for God. Pastor Robinson cofessed to not having that first love for God.
It’s not the money you have nor all the material things you have in life that brings happiness. It is the love for God and his promises that bring eternal joy to the heart of man.
Don’t get me wrong I don’t hate these modern religions that have take over. I also know they do a lot of good. I just don’t understand them building bigger buildings and going in debit while neglecting the lost who live within an arms throw of their castle.
I’m getting tired and need to quit typing now. It is hard to
do with two fat fingers and my meds are also slowing me down.
If this post doesn’t make any sense to you please give me a chance to try to explain. You see I take a lot of pain meds and I took a load about an hour before I saw your post to me.
I hope you get to feeling better, bravo. Thanks for the reply. :-)
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