Posted on 12/23/2007 11:11:52 AM PST by reaganaut1
PHOENIX (AP) -- Police in suburban Scottsdale have begun routinely asking for proof of citizenship from every suspect they arrest and turning those who are in this country illegally over to federal immigration officials.
The procedure was started Oct. 15, a result of the September killing of Phoenix police officer Nick Erfle by an illegal immigrant, Erik Jovani Martinez.
Scottsdale police had arrested Martinez on a misdemeanor charge 16 months earlier but they released him then because they didn't know he was an illegal immigrant who had been twice deported.
Erfle's killing ''caused us to look at what were asking suspects,'' Scottsdale police Sgt. Mark Clark said. ''If we arrest someone and then find that we called ICE (Customs and Immigration Enforcement) and they put a hold on them, then we know they have been deported and are back again.''
Martinez was later killed by police after he stole a car and took a hostage, authorities said.
Now police in the affluent suburb ask every suspect about their citizenship, have ICE agents pick up those who are in this country illegally, and keep a database of possible illegal immigrants in case they turn up again.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
Good for them. What took so long?
[I have a real problem having to prove I’m not guilty -vs- the assumption of innocence until proven guilty.]
Isn’t the fact they have invalid (stolen) ID, no drivers license, can’t speak English, and give a phoney address enough PC to ask the questions?
In a March 22, 2005 ruling, in Muehler v Mena, in unanimous decision from a Court known for its 5-4 splits, the United States Supreme Court essentially said that asking about immigration status during a lawful police contact (or, by implication, any lawful contact) was as fundamental a question as asking for name, address and date of birth. Indeed, the Court made clear that no predicate "independent reasonable cause' need exist to inquire into immigration status. It is the Law of the Land.Calling a decision by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals “faulty,” the Supreme Court held that “mere police questioning [regarding one’s immigration status] does not constitute a seizure.” The Court continued its landmark ruling on this issue by stating that “the officers did not need reasonable suspicion to ask Mena for her name, date of birth, or immigration status.”...
* * * Congress expressly intended for local law enforcement to act in cases in which officers have reason to believe that an individual is in the country illegally, even though immigration law enforcement is not their primary responsibility. In 1996, Congress passed and President Clinton signed legislation that protects individual officers who act to enforce federal immigration laws, even if their departments have non-cooperation policies.
Don't speed, don't deal drugs, don't murder, don't harbor criminals and you won't have anyone asking for your paperwork. Problem solved.
They're not kicking down doors or pulling people out of cars randomly. They've already been arrested for some crime. Shouldn't you have to prove your identity if you're arrested? If not, I could rob a bank and say I was you, get out on bail and you go to jail. Checking citzenship during an arrest should be required.
I agree
“I have sat in the border crossing points in Europe while the jackbooted thugs made us wait just because they could.”
When we ran into a delay at a border station of some sort, I went in and got drunk with the French border police, I left with a bottle of something they gave me and left them a bottle of Jack Daniels black.
I was doing Europe on $5 a day, but it was more like 50 cents. After I left they passed a law saying you had to have at least $50 before they would let you in.
Well we could always deport them.
I also have many documents such as certificates of education, professional licenses and court documents certifying me as an expert in my field. However, those documents, standing alone without the benefit of sworn testimony of the person responsible for their issue, are worth not much more than the paper they are written on. Most important to this discussion, none will prove that I am a citizen of this country or any other for that matter.
I do have access to some very good printing presses that can produce outstanding copies of any document or currency that needs to be produced. Unfortunately, even if I were to produce a vast quantity the documents mentioned so far, nothing will be proven except that many people have the ability to put names on licenses and other certificates.
My original post and this followup are not meant to deride your achievements as evidenced by the papers you mentioned.
With that in mind, How can any person prove who he is? I know who I am because my parents told me my name. I know I am a citizen of the United States of America because I say I am.
The police do have a need to know the status of the imigration process for people who are becoming citizens. They do not have the right to question either of our citizenships.
PS: I think that the title to the story is not what it should have been.
In addition to all the papers I have, the FBI has my fingerprints on file and the Marine Corps has a record of every the scar on my body. I think maybe I can prove who I am can you?
Semper Fi
An Old Man
Bttt!
Donna said:…”Cops have no other defense against becoming the main target of organized crime. Cops must make it clear that NO ONE can come against them or their families.
We should let them have this protection because if the cops ever become the first targets, then ordinary citizens will be easy pickings. We must give the warriors a way to continue on.
Otherwise, we will become a third world country just like Mexico . . . hmmm . . .”
Hey, sorry Donna because our cops are not allowed to ask somebody their immigration status. But if we can not put enough effort into solving every capital crime, then we are a third world country. I love my cops and I love my neighbor, should my neighbor get anything less than the full backing or our law enforcement, I think not. If we need more funding, so be it. If we need more funding make some fat Illegal chick with a shopping cart full of kids go back home or heavens forbid, get a husband.
I have more documentation than I mentioned...and I get your point ...but I am still not the least bit worried about proving my citizenship...If I can't then no average person can ... there are always worst case scenarios....and you are pointing to those. After all we live every day with currency...credit cards...all sorts of licenses that we trust as valid...theoretically anything can be reproduced fraudulently...so what do we do? Throw our hands up and not do anything? I still am not the least bit afraid to prove my citizenship to the best of my ability and proud to do so.
Merry Christmas...
The proof you will need is an authenticated copy of either your birth certificate, or your naturalization certificate. Either will be accepted as proof that someone named Alan was born here or was naturalized.
Then... all we need to do is prove that this particular Alan is in fact the same person who is described in the above mentioned documents.
When you get right down to actually proving something, it is never as simple as most think.
Wishing you and all a very Merry Christmas
Semper Fi
An Old Man
I used to get pulled over about every week. Now things have changed and they will not pull you over because they know every other person is an illegal. But, way back when, I found that all you have to do is take your dog every where you go and they will never pull you over, except for the motorcycle cop I accidentally spit on when I had a cold.
More funding is not the issue. It’s about brothers in arms and a calling to protect people. It’s about human nature.
The proof you will need is an authenticated copy of either your birth certificate, or your naturalization certificate. Either will be accepted as proof that someone named Alan was born here or was naturalized. Then... all we need to do is prove that this particular Alan is in fact the same person who is described in the above mentioned documents. When you get right down to actually proving something, it is never as simple as most think. Wishing you and all a very Merry Christmas Semper Fi An Old Man
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