ANSWERS TO 50 ANTI-MORMON QUESTIONS (LDS SITE FAIR)

FAIR (Foundation for Apologetics Information & Research) ^ | modified December 22, 2007 | FAIR Staff

[greyfoxx39]

 

With the Romney candidacy spurring threads questioning the beliefs of Mormonism on FR, this site will provide the LDS-APPROVED ANSWERS for those who are interested in the debate.

Here are the first fifteen answers. The rest can be found at http://en.fairmormon.org/50_Answers

Two hundred graduating students at Brigham Young University-Hawaii have been urged to use the Internet - including blogs and other forms of "new media" - to contribute to a national conversation about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Answers to 50 Anti-Mormon Questions

Anti-Mormon literature tends to recycle the same themes. Some ministries are using a series of fifty questions, which they believe will help "cultists" like the Mormons. One ministry seems to suggest that such questions are a good way to deceive Latter-day Saints, since the questions "give...them hope that you are genuinely interested in learning more about their religion."

This ministry tells its readers what their real intent should be with their Mormon friend: "to get them thinking about things they may have never thought about and researching into the false teachings of their church." Thus, the questions are not sincere attempts to understand what the Latter-day Saints believe, but are a smokescreen or diversionary tactic to introduce anti-Mormon material.^[1]

The questions are not difficult to answer, nor are they new. This page provides links to answers to the questions. It should be noted that the questions virtually all do at least one of the following:

1. misunderstand or misread LDS doctrine or scripture;
2. give unofficial material the status of official belief;
3. assume that Mormons must have inerrantist ideas about scripture or prophets like conservative evangelical Protestants do;
4. apply a strict standard to LDS ideas, but use a double standard to avoid condemning the Bible or their own beliefs if the standard was applied fairly to both.

 

Questions About LDS Prophets

1. Why does the Mormon church still teach that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God after he made a false prophecy about a temple built in Missouri in his generation (D&C 84:1-5)

This was not a prophecy, but a command from God to build the temple. There's a difference. Jesus said people should repent; just because many didn't doesn't make Him a false messenger, simply a messenger that fallible people didn't heed.

Learn more here: Independence temple to be built "in this generation"

2. Since the time when Brigham Young taught that both the moon and the sun were inhabited by people, has the Mormon church ever found scientific evidence of that to be true? (Journal of Discourses (1870), 13:271)

In Brigham (and Joseph's) day, there had been newspaper articles reporting that a famous astronomer had reported that there were men on the moon and elsewhere. This was published in LDS areas; the retraction of this famous hoax never was publicized, and so they may not have even heard about it.

Brigham and others were most likely repeating what had been told them by the science of the day. (Lots of Biblical prophets talked about the earth being flat, the sky being a dome, etc.—it is inconsistent for conservative Protestants to complain that a false belief about the physical world shared by others in their culture condemns Brigham and Joseph, but does not condemn Bible prophets.)

In any case, Brigham made it clear that he was expressing his opinion: "Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is." Prophets are entitled to their opinions; in fact, the point of Brigham's discourse is that the only fanatic is one who insists upon clinging to a false idea.

• Learn more here: Brigham Young and moonmen
  
• Learn more here: Joseph Smith and moonmen

3. Why did Brigham Young teach that Adam is "our Father and our God" when both the Bible and the Book of Mormon (Mor. 9:12) say that Adam is a creation of God? (Journal of Discourses (1852) 1:50))

The problem with "Adam-God" is that we don't understand what Brigham meant. All of his statements cannot be reconciled with each other. In any case, Latter-day Saints are not inerrantists—they believe prophets can have their own opinions. Only the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve can establish official LDS doctrine. That never happened with any variety of "Adam-God" doctrine. Since Brigham seemed to also agree with statements like Mormon 9:12, and the Biblical record, it seems likely that we do not entirely understand how he fit all of these ideas together.

• Learn more here: Adam-God

4. If Brigham Young was a true prophet, how come one of your later prophets overturned his declaration which stated that the black man could never hold the priesthood in the LDS Church until after the resurrection of all other races (Journal of Discourses (1854) 2:142-143)

Peter and the other apostles likewise misunderstood the timing of gospel blessings to non-Israelites. Even following a revelation to Peter, many members of the early Christian Church continued to fight about this point and how to implement it—even Peter and Paul had disagreements. Yet, Bible-believing Christians, such as the Latter-day Saints, continue to consider both as prophets. Critics should be careful that they do not have a double standard, or they will condemn Bible prophets as well.

The Latter-day Saints are not scriptural or prophetic inerrantists. They are not troubled when prophets have personal opinions which turn out to be incorrect. In the case of the priesthood ban, members of the modern Church accepted the change with more joy and obedience than many first century members accepted the extension of the gospel to the Gentiles without the need for keeping the Mosaic Law.

5. Since the Bible's test of determine whether someone is a true prophet of God is 100% accuracy in all his prophecies (Deut. 18:20-22), has the LDS Church ever reconsidered its teaching that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were true prophets?

Believing Christians should be careful. Unless they want to be guilty of a double standard, they will end up condemning many Biblical prophets by this standard.

• Learn more here: Joseph Smith and prophetic test in Deuteronomy 18

6. Since the current LDS prophets sometimes contradict the former ones, how do you decide which one is correct?

Most "contradictions" are actually misunderstandings or misrepresentations of LDS doctrine and teachings by critics. The LDS standard for doctrine is the scriptures, and united statements of the First Presidency and the Twelve.

The Saints believe they must be led by revelation, adapted to the circumstances in which they now find themselves. Noah was told to build an ark, but not all people required that message. Moses told them to put the Passover lamb’s blood on their door; that was changed with the coming of Christ, etc.

No member is expected to follow prophetic advice "just because the prophet said so." Each member is to receive his or her own revelatory witness from the Holy Ghost. We cannot be led astray in matters of importance if we always appeal to God for His direction.

7. Since there are several different contradictory accounts of Joseph Smith's first vision, how did the LDS Church choose the correct one?

The First Vision accounts are not contradictory. No early member of the Church claimed that Joseph changed his story, or contradicted himself. Critics of the Church have not been familiar with the data on this point.

The shortest answer is that the Saints believe the First Vision not because of textual evidence, but because of personal revelation.

The Church didn't really "choose" one of many accounts; many of the accounts we have today were in diaries, some of which were not known till recently (1832; 1835 (2); Richards, Neibaur). The 1840 (Orson Pratt) and 1842 (Orson Hyde) accounts were secondary recitals of what happened to the Prophet; the Wentworth letter and interview for the Pittsburgh paper were synopsis accounts (at best). The account which the Church uses in the Pearl of Great Price (written in 1838) was published in 1842 by Joseph Smith as part of his personal history. As new accounts were discovered they were widely published in places like BYU Studies.

• For the most common claim about a contradiction, see here: Only one Personage appears in the 1832 account
  
• Many questions about the First Vision are addressed here: First Vision accounts

8. Can you show me in the Bible the LDS teaching that we must all stand before Joseph Smith on the Day of Judgment?

This is a misunderstanding and caricature of LDS doctrine. There is, however, the Biblical doctrine that the apostles will help judge Israel:

Ye [the apostles] are they which have continued with me in my temptations. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Luke 22:28-30; see also Matt. 19:28)

Since the saints believe in modern apostles, they believe that those modern apostles (including Joseph) will have a role in judgment appointed to them by Jesus.

Those who condemn Joseph on these grounds must also condemn Peter and the rest of the Twelve.

• Learn more here: Joseph Smith's status in LDS belief

Questions About LDS Scripture (excluding the Bible)

9. Can you show me archeological and historical proof from non-Mormon sources that prove that the peoples and places named in the Book of Mormon are true?

This question is based on the mistaken assumption that the Bible message that Jesus is Christ and Lord is somehow "proved" by archeology, which is not true. It also ignores differences between Old and New World archeology. For example, since we don't know how to pronounce the names of ANY Nephite-era city in the American archeological record, how would we know if we had found a Nephite city or not?

• To learn more: Archeology and the Bible
• For physical Book of Mormon evidence specifically, see:
  • Old World geography
  • Warfare

10. If the words "familiar spirit" in Is. 29:4 refer to the Book of Mormon, why does "familiar spirit" always refer to occult practices such as channeling and necromancy everywhere else in the Old Testament?

The term "familiar spirit," quoted in the often-poetic Isaiah (and used by Nephi to prophesy about the modern publication of the Book of Mormon) is a metaphor, not a description of any text or its origin.

• To learn more: Book of Mormon as a "familiar spirit"

11. Why did Joseph Smith condone polygamy as an ordinance from God (D. & C. 132) when the Book of Mormon had already condemned the practice (Jacob 1:15, 2:24)

The critics need to read the next verses. The Book of Mormon says that God may command polygamy, just a few verses later. (Jac. 2:30).

• To learn more: Book of Mormon condemns polygamy

Many Biblical prophets had more than one wife, and there is no indication that God condemned them. And, the Law of Moses had laws about plural wives—why not just forbid them if it was evil, instead of telling people how they were to conduct it?

• To learn more: Polygamy not Biblical

And, many early Christians didn't think polygamy was inherently evil:

• To learn more: Early Christians on plural marriage

12. Why were the words "white and delightsome" in 2 Nephi 30:6 changed to "pure and delightsome" right on the heels of the Civil Rights campaign for blacks?

The critics have their history wrong. The change dates to 1837. The change was made by Joseph Smith in the 1837 edition of the Book of Mormon, though it was not carried through in some other editions, which mistakenly followed the 1830 instead of Joseph’s change. It was restored in the 1981 edition, but that was nearly 150 years after the change was made by Joseph.

This issue has been discussed extensively in the Church's magazines (e.g. the Ensign), and the scholarly publication BYU Studies.

• To learn more: Douglas Campbell, "'White' or 'Pure': Five Vignettes," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 29:4 (Winter 1996): ?. off-site

13. If God is an exalted man with a body of flesh and bones, why does Alma 18:26-28 and John 4:24 say that God is a spirit?

In Alma, the reference is to Jesus Christ, who before His birth did not have a physical body.

John 4:24 does not say God is "a" spirit, but says "God is spirit." There is no "a" in the Greek. The Bible also says "God is truth" or "God is light." Those things are true, but we don't presume God is JUST truth, or JUST light—or JUST spirit.

As one non-LDS commentary puts it:

That God is spirit is not meant as a definition of God's being—though this is how the Stoics [a branch of Greek philosophy] would have understood it. It is a metaphor of his mode of operation, as life-giving power, and it is no more to be taken literally than 1John 1:5, "God is light," or Deut. 4:24, "Your God is a devouring fire." It is only those who have received this power through Christ who can offer God a real worship.

- J. N. Sanders, A Commentary on the Gospel According to St. John, edited and completed by B. A. Mastin, (New York, Harper & Row, 1968), 147–148.

• To learn more: God is a Spirit

14. Why did God encourage Abraham & Sarah to lie in Abra. 2:24? Isn't lying a sin according to the 10 commandments? Why did God tell Abraham and Sarah to lie when 2 Nephi condemns liars to hell?

In the Bible, there are accounts of God commanding or approving less than complete disclosure. These examples seem to involve the protection of the innocent from the wicked, which fits the case of Abraham and his wife nicely.

• To learn more: Why would Abraham lie?

15. Why does the Book of Mormon state that Jesus was born in Jerusalem (Alma 7:10) when history and the Bible state that he was born outside of Jerusalem, in Bethlehem?

The Bible also says that Bethlehem ("the city of David") is at Jerusalem. (2_Kings 14:20) Was the Bible wrong? (Bethlehem is in the direct area of Jerusalem, being only about seven miles apart.)

 

[sevenbak]

The mormons started teaching about a holy spirit less than 30 years ago.....

You have just destroyed whatever credibility you might have tried to gain in your numerous mormon bashing posts. 30 years, are you kidding? Why oh why do I keep coming back to these threads. It totally puts a damper on my Sabbath.

Here are references to the “holy Spirit” printed in the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants, printed from the beginning of the church, in the mid 1800’s. I won’t be rebutting you any more, it’s not worth it.

1 Ne. 1: 7-8 Lehi is overcome with Spirit.
1 Ne. 2: 17 Nephi tells Sam of things manifested to him by Holy Spirit.
1 Ne. 3: 20 words delivered to prophets by Spirit of the Lord.
1 Ne. 4: 6 Nephi led by Spirit, not knowing beforehand what he should do.
1 Ne. 7: 14 Spirit of the Lord ceaseth soon to strive with Jews.
1 Ne. 11: 1 Nephi is caught away in Spirit into high mountain.
1 Ne. 11: 11 Nephi speaks with Spirit of the Lord in form of man.
1 Ne. 13: 12-13 Gentiles wrought upon by Spirit of the Lord to cross many waters.
1 Ne. 17: 47 Nephi is full of Spirit of God, that his frame has no strength.
1 Ne. 17: 52 Spirit of God is so powerful, brothers of Nephi fear to touch him.
1 Ne. 19: 12 many kings shall be wrought upon by Spirit of God.
1 Ne. 20: 16 (Isa. 48: 16) the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
1 Ne. 22: 2 by Spirit are all things made known unto prophets.
2 Ne. 2: 4 Spirit is same yesterday, today, forever.
2 Ne. 2: 28 choose eternal life according to will of Holy Spirit.
2 Ne. 26: 11 (Ether 2: 15) Spirit of the Lord will not always strive with man.
2 Ne. 32: 8 if ye would hearken unto Spirit that teaches man to pray, ye would know ye must pray.
2 Ne. 33: 2 many harden hearts against Holy Spirit, that it has no place in them.
Jacob 4: 13 Spirit speaks the truth.
Jacob 6: 8 will ye deny gift of Holy Ghost and quench Holy Spirit.
Jacob 7: 8 the Lord pours his Spirit into soul of Jacob.
Jarom 1: 4 those who are not stiffnecked and have faith have communion with Holy Spirit.
Jarom 1: 4 Holy Spirit makes manifest unto men according to faith.
Mosiah 3: 19 natural man will remain enemy to God unless he yields to enticings of Holy Spirit.
Mosiah 4: 20 God has poured out Spirit upon people of Benjamin.
Mosiah 5: 2 Spirit of the Lord has wrought mighty change in people of Benjamin.
Mosiah 18: 10 be baptized, that the Lord may pour out his Spirit upon you more abundantly.
Mosiah 27: 24 Alma has been born of the Spirit.
Alma 5: 46 teachings are made known unto Alma2 by Holy Spirit of God.
Alma 5: 46 Holy Spirit is spirit of revelation.
Alma 5: 47 prophecy is by manifestation of Spirit of God.
Alma 5: 54 converts have been sanctified by Holy Spirit.
Alma 7: 5 I trust, according to Spirit of God which is in me, that I shall have joy over you.
Alma 8: 10 Alma wrestles with God that he would pour out his Spirit upon people of Ammonihah.
Alma 9: 21 Nephites have been visited by Spirit of God.
Alma 11: 22 Amulek will say nothing contrary to Spirit of the Lord.
Alma 11: 44 (2 Ne. 31: 21; 3 Ne. 11: 27, 36; 3 Ne. 28: 10; Morm. 7: 7) Father Son, and Holy Spirit are one God.
Alma 13: 4 men reject Spirit of God because of hardness of hearts.
Alma 13: 28 pray continually and thus be led by Holy Spirit.
Alma 18: 16 Ammon2, being filled with Spirit of God, perceives king’s thoughts.
Alma 18: 34 Ammon2 has been called by Holy Spirit to teach these things.
Alma 19: 36 the Lord pours out his Spirit upon Lamanites.
Alma 24: 30 if people once enlightened by Spirit fall away, they become more hardened.
Alma 30: 42 Korihor has put off Spirit of God.
Alma 30: 46 Korihor resists spirit of the truth.
Alma 31: 36 Alma2 clasps hands upon fellow laborers and they are filled with Holy Spirit.
Alma 34: 35 if you have procrastinated day of your repentance, Spirit of the Lord has withdrawn from you.
Alma 38: 6 Spirit of God makes things known to Alma.
Alma 40: 13 spirits of the wicked have no portion of Spirit of the Lord.
Alma 45: 19 Alma is taken up by Spirit.
Alma 61: 15 commanders are given power to conduct war according to Spirit of God, which is Spirit of freedom.
Hel. 4: 24 Spirit of the Lord no more preserves Nephites.
Hel. 4: 24 Spirit of the Lord dwells not in unholy temples.
Hel. 5: 45 Holy Spirit enters Nephi and Lehi, that they speak marvelous words.
Hel. 13: 8 because of hardness of Nephites’ hearts, the Lord will withdraw his Spirit from them.
3 Ne. 7: 21 converts signify they have been visited by Spirit of God.
3 Ne. 18: 7, 11 (Moro. 4: 3; Moro. 5: 2) if men always remember Christ, they shall have his Spirit.
Moro. 4: 3 (Moro. 5: 2) those who partake of sacrament and always remember Christ will have his Spirit.
Moro. 8: 28 (Moro. 9: 4) Mormon2 fears Spirit has ceased striving with Nephites.
Moro. 10: 8, 17 gifts of God are given by manifestations of Spirit of God.
D&C 1: 33 the Lord’s Spirit shall not always strive with man.
D&C 1: 39 (D&C 59: 24) Spirit bears record.
D&C 5: 16 manifestation of Spirit depends on faith.
D&C 5: 16 those who believe will be born of Spirit.
D&C 6: 14 those who inquire receive instruction of Spirit.
D&C 6: 15 thou hast been enlightened by Spirit of truth.
D&C 8: 3 this is the spirit of revelation.
D&C 11: 12 put trust in that Spirit which leads to do good.
D&C 11: 13 (D&C 84: 46) Spirit shall enlighten mind, fill soul with joy.
D&C 11: 18 appeal unto my Spirit.
D&C 11: 21 after obtaining the word, elders shall have the Lord’s Spirit.
D&C 18: 2 truth of things written manifested by Spirit.
D&C 18: 2-3, 35, 47 (D&C 75: 1; D&C 97: 1) word of God given by Spirit.
D&C 19: 20 punishments tasted when Spirit is withdrawn.
D&C 19: 23 walk in meekness of Spirit.
D&C 19: 38 pray always, and I will pour out my Spirit.
D&C 20: 37 candidates for baptism must manifest they have received of Spirit of Christ.
D&C 20: 77, 79 those who partake of sacrament shall have Spirit.
D&C 25: 7 expound scriptures as given by Spirit.
D&C 27: 18 take the sword of my Spirit.
D&C 29: 30-31 the Lord created all things by power of his Spirit.
D&C 33: 16 power of Spirit quickens all things.
D&C 35: 13 the Lord to thrash nations by power of Spirit.
D&C 42: 6 go forth in power of Spirit, preaching gospel.
D&C 42: 13 (D&C 43: 15) teach as directed by Spirit.
D&C 42: 14 (D&C 63: 64) Spirit given by prayer of faith.
D&C 42: 14 if ye receive not the Spirit, ye shall not teach.
D&C 42: 23 (D&C 63: 16) he who looks upon woman to lust shall not have Spirit.
D&C 45: 57 the wise have taken Holy Spirit for their guide.
D&C 46: 2 elders to conduct meetings as guided by Holy Spirit.
D&C 46: 7 do that which Spirit testifies.
D&C 46: 28 he who asks in Spirit shall receive in Spirit.
D&C 46: 30 he who asks in Spirit asks according to will of God.
D&C 46: 31 all things done in Spirit must be done in name of Christ.
D&C 50: 13-14 (D&C 124: 88) elders are ordained to preach gospel by Spirit.
D&C 50: 17 preach by Spirit of truth.
D&C 55: 1-3 (D&C 53: 3; D&C 76: 52) reception of Holy Spirit by laying on of hands.
D&C 61: 27-28 (D&C 62: 8) do as commanded by Spirit.
D&C 63: 32 (D&C 64: 16; D&C 121: 37) the Lord holds his Spirit because of wickedness.
D&C 63: 41 Joseph Smith has power to discern by Spirit who should go to Zion.
D&C 63: 55 Sidney Rigdon grieves the Spirit.
D&C 63: 64 things to be spoken with constraint of Spirit.
D&C 70: 14 Spirit to be with, held if saints are not equal in temporal things.
D&C 72: 24 members are appointed by Holy Spirit to go to Zion.
D&C 76: 12, 18 by power of Spirit our eyes were opened.
D&C 76: 35 sons of perdition deny Holy Spirit after receiving it.
D&C 76: 52 those in celestial glory have received Holy Spirit by laying on of hands.
D&C 76: 83 telestial inhabitants deny not Holy Spirit.
D&C 76: 116 mysteries understood only through Spirit.
D&C 76: 116 Spirit bestowed on those who love God and purify themselves.
D&C 76: 118 man can bear God’s presence only through manifestation of Spirit.
D&C 84: 33 those who magnify priesthood callings are sanctified by Spirit.
D&C 84: 45 whatsoever is light is Spirit.
D&C 84: 46 Spirit gives light to every man.
D&C 84: 47 everyone who hearkens to Spirit comes unto Father.
D&C 84: 88 my Spirit shall be in your hearts.
D&C 88: 66 my voice is Spirit.
D&C 88: 66 (D&C 91: 4; D&C 93: 23-26) my Spirit is truth.
D&C 88: 137 pray as Spirit gives utterance.
D&C 93: 9, 11, 26 Christ is Spirit of truth.
D&C 95: 4 the Lord to pour out Spirit upon all flesh.
D&C 97: 1 the Lord speaks with voice of his Spirit.
D&C 99: 2 elders given power to declare word in demonstration of Holy Spirit.
D&C 104: 81 write according to that which shall be dictated by Spirit.
D&C 105: 36 those who are chosen shall be manifest by voice of Spirit.
D&C 107: 71 high priest may serve as bishop. having knowledge of temporal things by Spirit of truth.
D&C 111: 8 place to tarry shall be signalized by peace and power of Spirit.
D&C 112: 22 hearken to voice of Spirit.
D&C 136: 33 Spirit is sent forth into world.
Moses 1: 15 God’s Spirit has not all together withdrawn from Moses.
Moses 1: 27-28 Moses discerns earth and its inhabitants by Spirit of God.
Moses 2: 2 (Abr. 4: 2) God’s Spirit moves upon face of water.
Moses 6: 26 Spirit of God descends from heaven, abides upon Enoch2.
Moses 6: 60 by the Spirit ye are justified.
Moses 6: 65 Spirit of God descends upon Adam.
Moses 8: 17 Spirit will not always strive with man.
Abr. 4: 2 Spirit of God broods upon the waters.

[Tennessee Nana]

I said to Lasereye...”The mormons started teaching about a holy spirit less than 30 years ago.....”

sevenbak disagreed...In his opinion I was wrong...

Therefore I’ll change what I said a little...

Less than 30 years ago mormon misssionaries on bikes told me tyhat they were now teaching about ther “holy spirit”

I had told two young mormon missionaries who had accosted me in the street about their cult, that they denied the Holy Spirit of the Bible and they informed me brightly that they were teaching about the “holy spirit” now since they had had complaints about the ommission...

After questioning them and discovering they knew nothing about their “holy spirit” other than they had recently been instructed to add him/it to their propaganda, I told them to read the Bible for themselves and that they did not have the Holy Spirit of God in the Bible...

After that I found that other mormons were adding the “holy spirit” to their story..

In the last 40 years I have watched the mormons “evolve” several parts of the Christian beliefs from the Bible into their false doctrine...

[sevenbak]

I will give you the benefit of the doubt, since it has been so long, and you are obviously hostile in your approach. What you say is simply not true, nor has it ever been.
The teaching of the Holy Spirit is fundamental to the doctrines of the LDS faith. The scriptures posted above are evident of that, and the missionaries have been teaching this doctrine from day one. I haven’t even posted sermons and talks given by anyone, just scriptural references. Do you really want me to spam a few thousand references? LOL?

Why on earth do you think we ask people to put the challenge to the test, and ask God. Why is this following promise in the last chapter of the Book of Mormon, and always has been? The holy spirit is fundamental to our doctrine, and always will be.

Moroni 10:3-5

3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your heart's.
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.
6 And whatsoever thing is good is just and true; wherefore, nothing that is good denieth the Christ, but acknowledgeth that he is.
7 And ye may know that he is, by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore I would exhort you that ye deny not the power of God; for he worketh by power, according to the faith of the children of men, the same today and tomorrow, and forever.

[sevenbak]

... and darn it, I just broke my promise not to rebut you anymore. sigh...

Ok, time for me to repent. ;-)

Good night to you, and Happy New Year.

[Tennessee Nana]

“The teaching of the Holy Spirit is fundamental to the doctrines of the LDS faith.”

Do you pray in tongues??? an unknown language???

Mark 16:17, Acts 2:4, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 19:6, Jude 20,

[sevenbak]

Shamefully, I have no willpower!

Keep reading Moroni 10, right after what I posted. Your answer is there.

http://scriptures.lds.org/moro/10/15-16#15-16

OK, this time I’m out. I mean it this time! ;-)

[Tennessee Nana]

I’m talking about the Holy Spirit of the Bible...

[sevenbak]

So am I.

Ok, shutting off the computer now...

[tantiboh]

What’s the problem, Nana? I hit a nerve?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penis_envy

[tantiboh]

~”...I fear you are only trying to stir the pot.”~

I’m sorry you feel that way. In my experience, if I’m not very clear and very explicit about what I mean in these discussions, people will tend to try and misrepresent what I say, which then results in accusations of backpedaling, etc. as I attempt to clarify. It’s become my habit therefore to be very clear. I reasoned that examples would help with that.

The LDS rejection of the Doctrine of the Trinity will come as no shock to anyone familiar with LDS beliefs. Indeed, it is a basis by which some claim that we are not Christians. I do not think pot-stirring is a likely result.

[Utah Girl]

Thanks for your answer. I have seen you identifying posters as newbies, just didn’t know they were all LDS...

[restornu]

Joe Smith was a false man of GOD and Prophet.

If so why does The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints still exist on earth today?

[Prophet in the wilderness]

Why does Islam, Jehovah Wittiness, Christian Science,Edgar Cayce cults exist today ?

[restornu]

i don’t know do they have prophets as in

Eph 4
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ

[Elsie]

It is impossible for anyone to judge says the Lord in a state of contention.

2 Nephi 27

Yada

Yada

Yada...

 

 

 That book, the BOOK of Mormon, is worthless to guide men in living their lives.

 

---

 

THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI

CHAPTER 2

 

 

  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.

---

 

As the TRANSLATOR and FOUNDER of the LDS Organization; Inc. has PROVEN!!

[Elsie]

...the Bible and the Book of Mormon beautifully complement and testify of each other of Our Lord Jesus Christ!

You got this HALF right!!

 

 

The 'testimony' of coming fakes, frauds and liars is WELL documented in Scripture, and the Book of Mormon is centered in St. Pauls sights in these following verses:

 

 

 

 

Galatians 1:7-10
 7.  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
 8.  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
 9.  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

 

2 Corinthians 11:14-15
 14.  And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
 15.  It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

 

 

The above is the WARNING;

and the following is an EXAMPLE of falsity:

 

 

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19
  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”  

 

 

 

If one believes the Bible is correct, then, by that Standard, Mormonism fails the test.

 

 

If, however, you are convinced that the Bible is either in error, been corrupted or mis-interpreted, then you are free to believe whatever you wish.

 

 

 

 

 

[Elsie]

It would be far more productive than the mere criticism you have offered thus far.

I will not be tied up discussing 'theology' with you.

Your founder was merely an ignorant 14 yo farm boy; easily fooled by Satan and his angels of Light.

Your Organization is built on lies of the Devil and I won't waste my time analyzing the derivatives thereof!

[Elsie]

I defy you to produce an example of a Mormon FReeper who has attacked the Bible.

Nice way to try to narrow the selection process!

Your Organization is BUILT on the FACT that the Bible we have handed down to us thru the historic church is corrupted.

Any rational person sees that as an ATTACK!

(Did I just not ATTACK your precious book that was delivered to you by an ignorant, 14 yo farm boy?)

[Elsie]

Your children must have had some strange ideas...

HMmm...

[Elsie]

“How do you catch a wild reindeer?”

The ‘tame’ way...