D.C. Mulls A Return To Pre-K-8 Schools

Washington Post ^ | December 30, 2007 | V. Dion Haynes

[Amelia]

Reflecting a shifting national philosophy on how to educate middle-grade students, D.C. Schools Chancellor Michelle A. Rhee is considering expanding several elementary schools to include students up to eighth grade, going back to a pre-kindergarten through eighth-grade structure once the norm in the District.

Rhee has been discussing the idea with parents and teachers for the past several weeks as part of her proposal to close nearly two dozen schools. The idea is being met with skepticism from elementary school parents who do not want adolescents in the buildings with their young children and elementary school teachers who are opposed to altering what they consider successful programs in the schools.

...The conversion to middle schools was prompted by growing recognition in the 1970s, '80s and '90s that junior highs were not meeting the emotional and academic needs of adolescents, experts say. Middle schools enrolled sixth-, seventh- and eighth-graders, instead of seventh- through ninth-graders. The idea was to offer a more nurturing environment by dividing students into small groups and keeping them with their classmates and the same teachers all three years...

Jenkins-Parris, who also teaches at Fillmore Arts Center, at Backus Middle School in Northeast, said the older students often set poor examples for the younger students visiting the center.

The middle school students "show a lack of respect to adults and to younger students. . . . They run through the hallways and use vulgar language," Jenkins-Parris said.

[Amelia]

I tend to like the junior high concept, where most students are taught by teachers certified in a specific subject, rather than in "middle grades education" but the article says there is little research to support a particular approach.

I would also be leery of putting 8th graders in a school with very small children.

[Amelia]

Michelle Rhee’s proposed changes...I’m not so sure I agree with this one, but keeping the kids a little closer to home might be a good thing.

[Mark was here]

Middle Schools are just new age baloney.

K thru 6, Junior High is 7 - 8, and Freshmen belong in High School.

[Sherman Logan]

The old original basic school was 1 to 8, with a minority going on the high school.

Then they put in junior high of 7 to 9.

Then middle school of 6 to 8 came along.

Now they’re talking about going all the way to the original.

I believe a rational person would agree that such a change would be primarily a rearrangement of the deck chairs, and a way to project an image of accomplishment that doesn’t require the very hard work of addressing the intractable problems of modern education.

[shag377]

Back in 1991 my county went to the middle school idea, all because of money. We had, at that time, PK-7, 8-9 at a Jr. High and 10-12 Sr. High.

Now, we are going to a 6-7 school, an 8-9 school and back to the 10-12.:)

Thus swings the pendulum BACK the other way.:)

[WashingtonSource]

When I went to school in the Paleolithic Age, we had Grades 1 to 6 as primary school; grades 7 to 9 as junior high school, and grades 10 to 12 as high school. We had 4 Merit scholars in our small city high school in a red state. Back then we had devotions every day in grammar school, led by the teacher. Our high school had a Bible class and all school meetings in the auditorium began with a prayer. Sports events began with the National Anthem and a prayer.

[SoftballMominVA]

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[Roccus]

“I would also be leery of putting 8th graders in a school with very small children.”
_________________________________________________________

As a product of the K-8 system, I don’t understand why you would say this.

[Mark was here]

I had a teacher I recall from the 4th grade at Rusk Elementary in El Paso. This was in the late ‘60’s. We started with the Lords Prayer. She told us the Supreme Court said it was illegal, but it did not mater because we were in Texas.

[Amelia]

The idea of middle school was supposed to be that teachers there were uniquely qualified to address the social and emotional needs of adolescents, in addition to teaching them subject matter.

The middle grades degree seems to be rather more heavy on emotional development and less so on subject matter, although I know some very good middle grades teachers.

I think most 9th graders currently are too immature for high school (they tend to have more discipline referrals and failures than the other 3 grades combined, in my experience) and I'd rather see 6th graders back at the elementary school.

[Amelia]

As a product of the K-8 system, I don’t understand why you would say this.

It might depend on the school system. I've been in a small system where there wouldn't have been a problem with it, but I've seen others where the 8th graders would be...shall we say, a bad influence?

On the other hand, if it were handled correctly, they might rise to the occassion and be good role models for the smaller children.

I'm just commenting based on gut instinct; I obviously haven't done any research on the matter.

[GoLightly]

My sons went to a K-8 (small rural district). Most of the problems of having the older kids with the younger ones happen on the school bus, where there’s no segregation by age & very little adult supervision.

[Mark was here]

Just the term “Middle School” makes my skin crawl.

You are right it is about the emotions of the little darlings.

Put them in a Junior High School for 7 and 8th grade. Think of it as a quick boot camp for High School.

Kids need to get with the program and learn life is coming hard and fast.

[Sacajaweau]

I went through this old system. It was a neighborhood school where kids walked a short distance ON SIDEWALKS. There was no busing.

It was efficient and the big neighborhood kids watched over the little ones. The eighth graders were the traffic guards at the minor street crossings.

When 9th grade came along, we took the regular buses to the high school. The other benefit is that the streets had people walking the neighborhoods and parents watching out the windows.

This was Rochester, NY in the 50's. It was wonderful.

[Roccus]

The only “influence” on a lower grade I can remember was when one of my classmates was left back due to illness. (Back then, being left back was perjorative) The word was passed to the succeeding class that anyone ‘picking on’ this student because he was left back would have to answer to the ‘big kids.’ Elementary school students for the most part hung out with their peers. There was almost no interaction between grades.
Of course this was 50+ yrs. ago, so.................

[RKBA Democrat]

I attended middle school in the LA Unified School District. It was unbelievable.

I understand why some kids go truant.

[proxy_user]

‘The idea of middle school was supposed to be that teachers there were uniquely qualified to address the social and emotional needs of adolescents, in addition to teaching them subject matter.

But in reality, things being the way they are, any teacher who is any good avoids teaching in middle school. Only the worst teachers are willing to take the job - all others opt either for cute little kids, or teenagers who might conceivably be mature enough to want to learn something.

[ottbmare]

I think this is a very poor idea. Mixing grades was okay many years ago, when people all knew each other at the same school. Today, it’s different. Many eighth graders are grown men and women, especially in DC. They are smoking, drinking, having sex. Even some of the 11-year-old fifth graders are physically huge.

When I was in third grade (forty years ago!) in a very upscale community filled with well-behaved children, our classes were temporarily held in the same school the junior high kids attended. It was quite a small school. We eight-year-olds were actually afraid of the physically bigger and stronger 6th-, 7th-, and 8th-graders.

This is a very poor idea.

[madprof98]

The main beneficiary of the "middle school concept" has been the teachers' unions. Taking kids out of elementary school at the point of puberty and sticking them together in Hormone High just invited them to act wild and grow up before their time. But it gave plenty of teachers an opportunity to advance their careers with new certifications, titles, and cash benefits.

It was obvious from the first what was happening. But school boards, beholden to the teachers' unions, continued to invest millions in huge facilities packed with out-of-control 13- and 14-year-olds whose needs and whose very names were generally unknown to the various educational "specialists" running the place. This madness cannot end too soon.

What we need is what we used to have--small neighborhood schools where kids of varying ages know one another personally and are known personally by teachers and administrators.

[bill1952]

>Middle Schools are just new age baloney.

POW! Right on, exact.

We had the most sucessful systems in the 40s, 50s, and into the 60s, but then everything just had to change.
I often wondered why before, but time itself is a cruel teacher.

>elementary school teachers who are opposed to altering what they consider successful programs in the schools.

There it is. Even those teachers see it as plain as day.
We can’t have success in teaching students, now can we?

How else could we so completely dumb down the American population?
Crap, even the SAT scoring was down regulated to maintain the illusion to parents that their children are as well educated as they once were.