Posted on 02/09/2008 4:52:54 AM PST by Edward Watson
N.T. "Tom" Wright is one of the most formidable figures in the world of Christian thought. As Bishop of Durham, he is the fourth most senior cleric in the Church of England and a major player in the strife-riven global Anglican Communion; as a much-read theologian and Biblical scholar he has taught at Cambridge and is a hero to conservative Christians worldwide for his 2003 book The Resurrection of the Son of God, which argued forcefully for a literal interpretation of that event.
It therefore comes as a something of a shock that Wright doesn't believe in heaven — at least, not in the way that millions of Christians understand the term. In his new book, Surprised by Hope (HarperOne), Wright quotes a children's book by California first lady Maria Shriver called What's Heaven, which describes it as "a beautiful place where you can sit on soft clouds and talk... If you're good throughout your life, then you get to go [there]... When your life is finished here on earth, God sends angels down to take you heaven to be with him." That, says Wright is a good example of "what not to say." The Biblical truth, he continues, "is very, very different."
(Excerpt) Read more at time.com ...
I always thought the traditional description of Heaven was kinda boring. Everyone has their own idea of paradise—so ultimately paradise would be each person living in that particular context (I think “Star Trek Generations” had this theme).
In the final analysis, however, I am very skeptical of ANY mortal who professes to know the answers about the afterlife. That is for G-d to know and the rest of us to find out when He’d ready to share it with us.
My philosophy: Do the best you can in this life and hope for the best.
Luke 23:39-44 -- "And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. "
Well, I have read the Bible pretty thoroughly and I can vouch that every one of those doctrines is literally supported in the text.
Let’s see: #1 sounds like Purgatory to me and there is the text in Luke: “Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise” “Ameen soi lego, seemeron met emou esee en to paradeiso” The word ‘paradeiso’ in Greek is borrowed from the Persian, the original of which meant ‘enclosure’ or ‘Eden’ if you will. When our Lord meant ‘heaven’, He said ‘ouranous’. So even on the point of death He made a clear distinction. I think we ought to make one too, yes?
I have to ask whether you really want to argue with #2 given I Cor 15:35-49 and I Thess 4:16-17 as particular citations along with Luke 20:27-40 and 22:28-30, and also citing Rev 20:12-15. Given the Scripture testimony, there is no arguing we will be resurrected in physical bodies
As to #3, our Lord Himself said, ‘In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so I would have told you...’ John 14:2 “en tee oikia tou patros mou monai pollai eisin. ei de mee, eipon an umin oit poreouomai etoimasai topon umin?” That sounds like a multiplicity of ‘heavens’ if you will without violating the unity of God or the universality of Heaven. How is it not possible to have varieties of places in such a case?
#4 is also a commonplace. Rev 21:1 says “Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.” “Kai eidon ouranon (not paradeiso, yes?) kainon kai geen kaineen. ho gar protos ouranos kai hee protee gee apeelthan, kai hee thalassa ouk estin eti.” So Dr. Wright seems on pretty firm ground on this opinion also.
And again in Revelations: 20:4 we find the prime text supporting #5: ‘Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed.’ “Kai eidon thronous, kai ekathisan ep autous, kai krima edothee autois” Further on, the text reads (v 6): ‘Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.’ “makarios kai agois ho echon meros en to anastasei tee protee. Epi touton ho deuteros thanatos ouk echei exousian, all’ esountai iereis tou theou kai tou Christou, kai basileusousin met autou [ta] chilia etee.”
Now, I grant that this takes place before the old heaven and earth are wiped away, but there will be a time when the faithful rule under the direct dominion of God.
The clearest Gospel testimony to #5 is at Matt 20:20-23: ‘Then the mother of Zebedee’s sons came with her sons to make a request of him and bowed low; and he said to her, ‘What is it you want?’ She said to him, ‘Promise that these two sons of mine may sit one at your right hand and the other at your left in your kingdom.’ Jesus answered [and said] ‘You do not know what you are asking. Can you drink the cup that I am going to drink? [that is, can they endure death by martyrdom?] They replied, ‘We can.’ He said to them, ‘Very well’ you shall drink my cup, but as for seats at my right hand and my left, these are not mine to grant; they belong to those to whom they have been allotted by my Father.’
It looks to me like humans will be granted places of authority at some point in the future, though who will have which is not yet known.
Now, I only see that LDS cosmology does not falsify any of them. It has many other elements, most notably the pre-existence of souls (i.e., souls which were all created at the beginning of time and which are then sent into bodies as the children are conceived). If you see that element in Dr. Wright’s thought, then maybe you have something. Otherwise, you do not have a point here.
BTW, I happen to have read all three of Dr. Wright’s excellent books on the Son of God, beginning with the ‘New Testament and the People of God’, ‘Jesus and the Victory of God’ and the ‘Resurrection of the Son of God’. It is so very orthodox and Catholic that I am frankly surprised he even has a benefice in England, much less a senior bishopric. The man is thorough and he backs up his analysis with hard data. He does not cringe from the miraculous but recognizes that it is what mere humans experience when the Divine breaks in to work His will. I should not wish to think to vouch for anyone, but I will stand to defend a holy and faithful man working in extremely adverse circumstances when his work is not intelligently engaged.
Yep, but then there's the Arch Bishop of Canterbury and our own Presiding Bishopette...
I find great comfort in “But it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him.” (1 Corinthians 2:9).
And I’m just so glad and humbled that I will be there.”
“Yep, but then there’s the Arch Bishop of Canterbury and our own Presiding Bishopette”
Right, the AbC and PB are not too far from Spong the apostate.
I’d take the Mormons over the Anglicans. Joseph Smith was a gentlemen who married his women. Didn’t cut off their heads when he was tired of them, unlike the founder of the Anglicans.
I’m with you on this one. There is nothing radical here. Heaven is not a reward for being good. Jesus is coming back. There will be a new earth. We will get new physical bodies.
N.T. Wright is a more established scholar than I am, but he does not express anything significantly different than what I or the Senior Pastor preach regarding heaven.
This article is from Time. regardless of the source they used Time is an anti-Christian publication with an agenda.
The man with the last word on Mormon theology was Napoleon Bonaparte; try doing google searches on “Joseph smith” and “Rosetta stone”...
Jacques Derrida, the leading literary deconstructionist, is certainly not the pioneeer of 'the postmodern scepticism of the metanarrative.' All that crap was pioneered 500 years ago by the 'reformers' who insisted on a believer's right to privately intepret Scripture, and thus a radical indeterminacy of texts.
It strengthens my conviction that a divinely-guided Magisterium is needed to cop the meaning of even the most obvious of Biblical messages.
I don’t understand. Napoleon DIED before Mormonism was invented.
Would like to recommend a book for everyone:
Heaven by Randy Alcorn. One of the best books presenting the biblical position and description I have ever read.
Well that sucks.
This statement is NOT consistent with Mormon theology/cosmology. PLEASE reread it carefully. If this were a ‘talk’ instead of a written statement, where there was time for much more exposition and Q&A, I think it would be clear that this is sound Christian doctrine, and in no way threatening. It is refreshing to see an ‘official’ Christian be an actual believer.
Blessings,
Mrs. Esopman
Amen, Lord, I believe, help thou my unbelief.
I just believe, and do not worry about what is and what is not. I leave that up to God.
I just want to accept all that this mortal mind can endure and comprehend. I tell God all the time, I love you, I accept you, forgive me, and help me. When I fail help me see and teach me, just lead me through.
We may be in for many a surprise, but faith in God will lead us and what is unknown may not be all that surprising.
Joe Smith in hell: “I want a re-trial!”
and you know because...
I heard a different story from Maria Shriver’s. I heard that if you want to get to heaven, you have to raise a little hell....
If there’s a heaven, the only way to find out for sure is after you’ve died. All we have to do is let somebody die, leave them dead for awhile and bring them back to life and put them on a daytime show, like Oprah or Montel Williams, and let ‘em tell us what happened. Then we’ll know.
I don’t recognize your statement it must be your world yardstick at work again!
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