el Presidente candidates where Americans will become the new ILLEGAL ALIENS:
Posted on 02/10/2008 9:20:15 AM PST by Excuse_My_Bellicosity
A little over a year after an immigration raid on the Swift & Co. meatpacking plant in Hyrum, businesses across a wide swath of Utah's economy find themselves in a political limbo.
On the one hand, they want a legal immigrant work force in order to prosper or even to survive. On the other, they have been steamrolled by an opposition that crushed the recent proposal in Congress to reform the nation's immigration laws.
The federal raids took out about 10 percent of Swift's work force in Utah and five other states in December 2006. If that were a there-but-for-the-grace-of-God-go-I moment for other Utah businesses, the reality is that the nation's wink-wink system of employing illegal workers has changed little since then.
Indeed, that was unscored Thursday when immigration agents raided Universal Industrial Sales, Inc., in Lindon, and detained 50 undocumented workers, charged the metal fabrication business with haboring illegal aliens and arrested its human resources manager.
In the Swift case, court records show that the company dutifully filled out required forms known as I-9s when hiring employees. The company also had used a federal program under development called Basic Pilot, which was meant to help identify the illegal use of Social Security numbers. Workers were required to present a Social Security card and another form of government-issued ID with a matching photo. Beyond that, Swift was legally required only to keep the information in its files.
Records show that undocumented Swift workers simply purchased SSNs and IDs on the street for about $800, which easily got them work.
JBS Swift & Co., the new name of the company bought by the Brazilian meatpacker JBS S.A. in July, turned down several requests for interviews.
But experts argue that a meatpacking company the size of Swift had to have known whether it hired workers without proper documents.
"It stretches credulity to state they had no idea they had these workers," said Jessica Vaughan of the Center for Immigration Studies, a Washington, D.C. think tank.
For businesses such as construction, landscaping, agriculture, hospitality, meat processing and food services, hiring immigrants has become a matter of course. But with strenuous opposition to "amnesty" for the 12 million undocumented people already in the U.S. (an estimated 100,000 in Utah) stalling federal immigration reform or other reforms that might create a guest-worker program, Swift's labor problems are now widely shared by others.
"It's now much bigger than a meat-processing issue," said James Mintert, professor of agriculture economics at Kansas State University.
And if the Swift raids exposed the meatpacking industry's practice of hiring low-wage immigrants who used stolen or fake IDs to get jobs they could not have gotten legally, the aftermath also has raised plenty of questions about immigrant labor in Utah - and there appear to be few answers. Normally, business interests in Utah and nationally are politically powerful, but in the case of immigration-reform legislation they backed in Congress this year, they've found themselves overwhelmed. Utah's senators received perhaps 100 calls in opposition for every 10 in favor of the immigration-reform bill that failed to pass the Senate in June, said Clark Ivory, CEO of Ivory Homes, the state's largest home builder.
"The reason that immigration reform has failed is that extreme elements are stirring the pots of hatred. [They] are anti-Hispanic, very vocal and very vindictive with these politicians," Ivory said. "A moderate, thoughtful and quiet voice that comes from business is not heard over that extreme voice that comes from the far right wing."
The business community wants to abide by the law, and it wants the nation to control its borders, he said. But that community also wants reform that provides an adequate skilled and unskilled work force, which has been a constant challenge in recent years.
In the past two decades, Utah's economy has gone through changes that have created a greater need for more low-skilled workers than a native-born population could or would want to fill, said Pamela Perlich of the Bureau of Economic and Business Research at the University of Utah.
During that span, Utah saw a huge boom in commercial and residential construction - projects such as the LDS Church conference center, facilities for the 2002 Winter Olympics and the rebuilding of Interstate 15 and construction of TRAX light rail.
In addition, a demographic shift to a higher percentage of workers with four-year college degrees (10.2 percent in 1960, compared with 26.1 percent in 2000) meant more Utah-born workers landed higher-paying jobs.
"As more of our native-born population moves up the ladder, we still continue to have demand for people in tortilla factories or meatpacking plants or people to clean buildings or make beds in hotels," Perlich argues.
But there are plenty of people inside and outside the business world who don't buy that argument. Robert Wren, for one, thinks something more sinister is in play.
Wren is chairman of UFIRE, a Utah group advocating enforcement of the nation's existing immigration laws, and although he agrees that "business needs a work force," he argues that "what has happened is that having an illegal immigrant work force allows them to get a cheaper employee.
"They aren't willing to pay what the job should be paying to get an American to do it," he said. "And by hiring more and more illegal immigrants, we basically depress the wage rates in America."
Ivory and Perlich counter that it's not that simple and that there is no way to fill available jobs without resorting to immigrant labor. Economists, too, generally agree that the nation as a whole has benefitted from immigrant labor - but disagree on how much native-born, low-skilled workers who directly compete with immigrants have been hurt economically by the influx.
Regardless of who's right, Utah businesses have been lobbying Congress for reforms that would expand the number of visas available for workers, not only those in entry-level jobs but also those in highly skilled positions, such as the high-tech sector.
"Without effective immigration reform, there's going to be a huge shortage of labor for the construction industry," said Scott Parson, president of Staker & Parson Cos., a Salt Lake City sand and gravel, concrete and road construction company. He has been involved in the immigration question on behalf of the Salt Lake Chamber.
Ivory and others worry that with federal legislation stalled and a new presidential administration still a year away, the Utah Legislature might step into the void the way its counterparts have in a few other states, where laws against hiring illegal workers have been tightened and immigrants' use of public services has been restricted.
“The reason that immigration reform has failed is that extreme elements are stirring the pots of hatred. [They] are anti-Hispanic, very vocal and very vindictive with these politicians,” Ivory said. “A moderate, thoughtful and quiet voice that comes from business is not heard over that extreme voice that comes from the far right wing.”
This is just too rich. Who is this cheap little slurmonger named Ivory? “A moderate, thoughtful an quiet voice that comes from business”??? Business that has deliberately ignored a whole string of immigrations laws to help their bottom line, for years. Business that has no value that extends beyond their bottom line, and that cannot see beyond their next P&L statement.
That’s one of this nation’s biggest problems in domestic and foreign policy: a bunch of amoral, bottom-line businessmen with nothing but their own self-interest in mind has been allowed to have far too much influence over US policies.
He forgot journalism. The way newspapers are losing money these days they could use some cheap illegal labor.
We have a solution for this but not one these cry baby RINOs and Socialists can stomach. Empty the welfare roles, cut off the public dole and you'll find all sorts of "unskilled labor" willing to do whatever it takes to eat.
Sometimes solutions are simply too easy to believe.
Should we hand 225 years worth of R & D to China? We have.
Should we replace our workforce with foreign laborers? We are.
It is unconscionable what we have bought off on IMO.
Funny, we’ve aborted 30 million+ American babies and now have to import 20 million+ immigrants to take their place.
The opposition to the Immigrant Bill was not over reform, it was over the ‘perks’ that were going to be handed out. Some of which were better than an American citizen could get.
Including Social Security benefits on the mere vouch of a friend that he/she had worked in the Country for certain number of years.
There are several plans around for a guest worker program.
One would set up private temp worker agencies that would hire legal card carrying temp workers.
The agency would handle payroll provide medical coverage.
Each worker would be screened, his/she actual identity known.
Congress had other ideas as to how to ‘solve’ the problem.
Which was the 3 monkey syndrome, see, hear ,speak no evil.
If the businesses agree to cover the medical costs of the illegals...
...so I don't have to by higher medical bills to make up for it
If the businesses agree to pay to make whole all the families who have lost a loved one to an illegal immigrant drunk driver...
...because God forbid the police ever enforce laws against illegals, lest they be called racist.
If the businesses lower my credit card rates and eat the losses on subprime mortgages
because in addition to would-be get-rich-quick flippers, a lot of the home loans going bad are illegas
If the businesses explain why they pushed so hard for NAFTA
because with all the illegals up HERE, there sure can't be very many decent-paying jobs in Mexico
If they get rid the "Press 1 for English" and force people to conduct transactions in English...
because diversity isn't our strength, hard work and assimilation are.
If they allow me to get a job with a phony ID, pay me under the table, and require no ID at the bank other than an easily-gamed Matricula card
...because Mexicans should know the joy of mindless red tape too.
Screw 'em all. Actions like this make the liberals hatred of business seem plausible.
Clark Ivory, CEO of Ivory Homes, the state’s largest home builder: “The reason that immigration reform has failed is that extreme elements are stirring the pots of hatred. [They] are anti-Hispanic, very vocal and very vindictive with these politicians,” Ivory said. “A moderate, thoughtful and quiet voice that comes from business is not heard over that extreme voice that comes from the far right wing.”
So, Mr. Ivory, here’s a moderate and quiet idea for you. I think the price of homes is too high in Utah. I think the price would come down if Utah’s government encouraged 100 foreign based home buiding companies to set up shop in Utah. What do you think, Mr. Ivory? Mr. Ivory? Are you still there?
Pamela Perlich of the Bureau of Economic and Business Research at the University of Utah: “In the past two decades, Utah’s economy has gone through changes that have created a greater need for more low-skilled workers than a native-born population could or would want to fill.”
So, Ms. Perlich, here’s a little thought experiment for you. Let’s say the University of Utah needs to cut back on spending, and they decide that economic researchers like you should be paid minimum wage with no health insurance and no vacations. Then, when U Utah can’t find domestic workers to fill your job because the pay is so low, they ask the federal government to allow them to hire foreign workers instead. Gosh, isn’t that like a “Supply and Demand Curve” or something?
Yep, the pendulum always seems to swing too far. It’s just about impossible to get that thing to settle near an equilibrium state.
I think a big, but seldom mentioned factor in the campaigns this year is that many voters now believe that the free trade, open borders, free market ideologies aren’t serving the US very well, and that many of our trading partners are taking advantage of us, as they indeed are, and have been for years.
It’s definitely past time for the business influence over our policies to be throttled back. And then we have to watch the socialist, anti-business ideologues like a hawk.
Add my signature to that list!!
“So, Mr. Ivory, here’s a moderate and quiet idea for you. I think the price of homes is too high in Utah. I think the price would come down if Utah’s government encouraged 100 foreign based home buiding companies to set up shop in Utah. What do you think, Mr. Ivory? Mr. Ivory? Are you still there?”
Lol, but you know free trade and open markets and the free movement of capital must have its limits. Let’s not get carried away with these economic theories.
Fact is I can get hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens delivered on site with each one having a Masters degree or higher, and they'll pick your apples or rake your yard for a year for free just for the chance to stay here longer in a job consistent with their education.
Not a one of them is going to be Hispanic either, and ALL will speak English.
So far no one has demonstrated that only Hispanics can do the job.
I went to a job fair yesterday, because for the second time in a year, my IT job is being “out-sourced” to India. As I stood in line, there were at least two foreigners (mostly East Indians) for every American, showing that if your job isn’t sent overseas, the greedy corporate big wigs bring the workers here under the H1B program. The H1Bs are willing to work for much less, depressing salaries and taking jobs away from Americans. Frankly, as an American citizen and taxpayer, I’m sick and tired of our government taking our taxes and supporting foreign workers. No wonder why some are beginning to hate foreigners.
“So, Ms. Perlich, here’s a little thought experiment for you. Let’s say the University of Utah needs to cut back on spending, and they decide that economic researchers like you should be paid minimum wage with no health insurance and no vacations. Then, when U Utah can’t find domestic workers to fill your job because the pay is so low, they ask the federal government to allow them to hire foreign workers instead. Gosh, isn’t that like a “Supply and Demand Curve” or something?”
Hey, I made what I thought was a brilliant proposal here on FR a few months back, aimed at reducing the ever increasing cost of higher education. It was a simple plan:
Do away with all tenure and begin hiring qualified professors from India, China and other low wage nations to teach all possible courses by communications hook-up from their native lands. I figure we can eliminate hundreds of thousands of college professors whose pay is greatly in excess of world market levels for professors. Many of these $75,000 -100,000+ professors could be replaced with fine people willing to work for $10,000 - 15,000.
Amazingly, that’s a saving similar to the transfer of manufacturing jobs to cheap labor nations. And we’ve been told for years that we were losing jobs because they were such low skill jobs. Not so. It’s really just the difference in standards of living in the US and poor nations. What an amazing discovery. (Except all remotely honest people have known that for years).
With the wonders of modern communications technology, and the excess supply of workers of all skill levels in many poor nations, I figure we can replace 75% or more of all the college professors who are being paid so much more than the world salary scale for professors. Harmonizing pay, if you care for these globalists’ terms.
And I also suggested we start by eliminating all economics professors, who I’m sure will be thrilled to see their theories put into practice, with all the savings that would result. Comparative advantage, so to speak.
These type of newspaper articles also end up having the opposite intended effect as it pisses off the consumer of these greedy manufacturers and the overburdened American tax payer who is left holding the bag for the greedy business businesspeople who shift the related social costs to the tax payers while they line their own pockets with the ill-gotten gains resulting from hiring the low wage illegal aliens.
“How about some stories about the victims of identity theft?”
How about some stories of the two dozen Americans who are killed every day by illegals (primarily illegals from Mexico)?
This could also be spun as Swift and Co. refuses to hire inner city blacks where unemployment is consistently high.
The black unemployement rate per BLS is currently 9.2% nationwide and much higher in urban areas.
The US population has increased by 21 million since 2000. We have the highest rate of annual population growth. We will add another 166 million in the next 53 years.
there are (were)legal ways to get foreign workers, but it requires effort on the part of employers and willingness to abide by current wage & hour regulations.
The new immigration program needs to provide a temporary worker proviso whereby the worker is recruited in the foreign land, temp papers approved by INS, and then they return home when contract is finished. It worked well in the 60’s.(no welfare, no social security, no babies)
there are (were)legal ways to get foreign workers, but it requires effort on the part of employers and willingness to abide by current wage & hour regulations.
The new immigration program needs to provide a temporary worker proviso whereby the worker is recruited in the foreign land, temp papers approved by INS, and then they return home when contract is finished. It worked well in the 60’s.(no welfare, no social security, no babies)
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