>>who makes up this crap?
George Orwell
Robert Heinlein
Joseph Conrad
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George Lucas
Robert Heinlein
Joseph Conrad
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George Lucas
Welcome to the hive of hypercapitalistic corporate communism.
Buy More, Bee Happy.
Posted on 02/23/2008 5:46:06 AM PST by KungFuBrad
I think the problem here is confusing “self-interest” with capitalism. Self-interest is why capitalism works. When capitalism starts having problems, it is often because people set aside their own self-interest for bizarre fantasies.
For example, look at Al Gore. He has the skills to be a fine capitalist, which is how he wants his life to be. But at the same time, his mind is so twisted that he cannot imagine other people wanting to live that way as well. He feels he cannot enjoy his wealth and luxury if others enjoy wealth and luxury as well. He truly believes that life is a lottery, and that “luck” determines wealth or poverty. And he has said so.
This is what I call the “Old Europe and South America disease”. The inability to enjoy anything if others also enjoy the same thing.
It is a common enough sickness that desperately wants for their only to be the rich and the poor. It feels deeply threatened by the very idea of a middle class, or that others enjoy their lives. To a great extent it is because their wealth has not given them happiness, or even satisfaction, which points out that they are failures, no matter their wealth. And they are bitterly resentful.
So how does this effect capitalism?
A self-interested capitalist is more than willing for others to profit, as long as he does. Someone like Bill Gates has created hundreds or even thousands of millionaires, directly and indirectly, and enriched far more than that.
Compare that with Carlos Slim of Mexico. Also super-rich, but determined to not elevate his workers “beyond their station”. With the exception of his small group of peers, his interests, like those of the few other ultra-wealthy ruling families of Mexico, are to *prevent* the rise of a Mexican middle class.
The flip side of this coin is seen in Venezuela, where their wealthy have the same twisted view that life is only enjoyable if they are surrounded by starving peasants. This causes the very poor to become violently socialist, like Chavez. This pattern is repeated endlessly in the places with the disease. Ironically, once Chavez ascends the throne, he will be more than willing for the peasants to starve while he enriches himself.
The disease has made inroads in the US as well. Often what is though of as “conspiracies” like the Trilateral Commission and the Bilderberg Group, are in reality just pathetic groups of unhappy rich people who want to fantasize that they are royalty. And if they could just keep the peasants down, they will enjoy themselves.
Trickle-down theory at work?
More interesting is the fact that he, with Melinda, made "Persons of the Year" in 2005,
even though he has benefitted far more people with his success than with his liberal generosity.
Seems that way to me also.
49, George Bernard Shaw, An Intelligent Woman's Guide to Socialism and Capitalism, p. 470.
It's not taught anywhere.
I beg to differ. Morality and ethics are very closely related, nearly interchangeable. In the business world, it's called Ethics training as opposed to Morality training. Now, I can't speak for other large corporations, but where I work, business ethics is stressed and enforced. We take mandatory business ethics training classes yearly. There are 7 or 8 on-line classes, professionally done, with graded quizzes at the end of each section, so you can't just sign on and slack off or snore through the lessons. It's required. Everyone must make time for the classes. Everyone has to take the training/enforcement.
Being in the headlines for poor ethical decisions is bad for business. Even the appearance of a poor ethical decision is bad - just look at McCain right now.
The trickle down theory works when people are more self interested than neurotic. Trouble is, there are a lot of neurotics out there.
Look at Hollywood’s obsession with tearing down heroes. They hate the idea that heroes are heroes because they are better. Again, with the “winner at life’s lottery” idea.
There is so much negativity and downright evil in such bitter jealousy and envy. But it is why the Democrat party is the way it is.
I’ve spent time in the corporate arena. We were not taught ethics much, other than don’t discriminate unless they are white, christian males.
At some point doesn't self-interest interfere with a healthy market place?
I suppose a person has a self-interest to make sure that his market is strong and his customers are content. I'm off to work, but "self-interested" in your response. :-)
Kinda funny coming from China about the excesses of “supercapitalism”. Communism is the planet’s worst enemy contributing more pollution, starvation, death and misery than any politcal/economic system ever devised.
“Classic Chinese scholar Qian Mu, in characterizing US capitalism, said Western capitalism centers on two dominant urges: the urge to make others poor; and the urge to kill others.”
We say the Chinese focus on several things themselves. One is cleansing all who are not Chinese and the societies of those who are not Chinese, a practice which they have engaged in for thousands of years and still continue. Western societies, by contrast, have been more accepting of other races than those in the majority unlike any other societies in history on a comparitive scale. It was the British who ended slavery whereas the Chinese communists still practice it in party “reeducation” camps.
Another of their foci is upon starving people in the millions and now creating roving gangs of unemployed of enormous size in the countryside. The gaps between the wealthy and the poor are far larger than here. They have not focused on this, instead they are in denial about it.
[One is cleansing all who are not Chinese and the societies of those who are not Chinese, a practice which they have engaged in for thousands of years and still continue.]
The modern Chinese state can be thought of as a collective hive that utilizes capitalism as a means to achieve the propagation of its genome.
[It was the British who ended slavery]
Hmmm.... early drafts of the American Declaration of Independence contained verbiage that was critical of the British role in the slave trade - and then were the British opium wars upon the Chinese and also the antics of Ceil Rhodes and his merry band of miscreant followers to consider.
[Another of their foci is upon starving people in the millions and now creating roving gangs of unemployed of enormous size in the countryside.]
Tribal fascism is engrained in human behavior. It is a survival mechanism. I believe controlling that instinctive urge is part of the function of government implicit in our Declaration of Independence.
"To secure these rights"
Capitalism is a tool that can be used or abused. Scottish philosopher Adam Smith’s treatise “Wealth of Nations” criticized monopolism yet praised the marketplace economics that brought economic balance to consumers and producers. “Consumption is the purpose of production...”
“At some point doesn’t self-interest interfere with a healthy market place?”
Self-interest can be a pretty complicated thing. To begin with, there is basic self-interest, such as an infant, or a desperate person has. Usually focused on just one thing, be it water and food, sleep, to go to the toilet, that sort of thing. There is also negative self interest, such as that of the addict and the gambler, often fighting for attention with their real needs.
But people soon grow beyond that, hopefully. They extend their self interest to their family. A wise and prudent thing to do.
But beyond family, self-interest enters the abstract. Many people have no community interest, and even fewer care about their nation, unless they are rallied to care by a threat against their nation which may threaten their family.
People who are psychologically dependent on communality abhor those who have no community, and practically speaking, national events that effect us and our families are, and should be, rare, and it shows bad government that it interferes with our lives as much as it does.
So this is where the problem really begins: in people trying to extend their self interest beyond their family; and people, often shamelessly, trying to rally the care of other people for their own, cynical purposes.
For example, the Democrat party.
This is why self-interest, real self-interest, is much better for capitalism. Because it is focused and personal, not abstract, idealistic and fantastic.
A person in the market based on their self-interest is both a better producer and a better consumer. As consumer, by seeking the best product at the least price, instead of for some abstract reason. Say well made Italian leather shoes instead of plastic shoes “to save the rain forest”.
A self-interested person is often a better judge of abstract self-interest than a person who pursues idealized fantasies.
For example, very level headed people are glad to spend money on a ballistic missile defense, because they see that directly benefiting their self-interest.
At the same time, those who have idealized fantasies oppose a missile defense as being “provocative” to our enemies with missiles. They prefer their fantasies to their own real self-interest.
Well I agree with you about the promise inherent in the Declaration and things looked hopeful at that time. This point has been made extremely well by Clarence Thomas for years, for which he has been vilified by the “black” establishment liberals.
But things went rather backwards in a very bad way with the wearing out of the tobacco lands so swiftly and, above all the rise of King Cotton to totally dominate the deeper south, wiping out the influence of small farmers completely in states like South Carolina and eroding the strength of the inland folks. One of the clearest signs of this backward slide was the repeal of the manumission laws in the southern states.
Had it not been for Wilberforce and the Civil War things would obviously have continued in the wrong direction for much longer. Essential to the ending of slavery was the strength of the British Navy interrupting the trade across the Atlantic. Of course the enormous Arab slave trading out of black Africa continued, and still goes on.
My concerns are with those that have a self-interest in business at the expense of employees.
I suspect I answered it my own mind in the following:
A business owner has a long term self-interest ensuring that his employees are content, not under/over paid, and willing to stay with the company long term.
That same business owner must ensure that his customers are getting the products & services they want or need at a competitive price.
Failing to do either puts in jeopardy company health & longevity.
Thus, his goal is to keep his customers/employees content.
His motivation is self-interested, ie pay the bills, put the kids in college, &etc.
The fruits of his labor are also passed onto others, who in turn pass it on to others. Trickle-down theory.
I know better now why capitalism is superior to any other market ideology.
Thanks.
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