Why Democrats should love the FairTax

Boston Globe ^ | February 24, 2008 | Laurence Kotlikoff

[Bigun]

See post #80

[robertpaulsen]

"The FairTax removes all those, and replaces it with the single, itemized, FairTax."

There's not 23% to remove, unless you remove employee withholding and the employee portion of FICA and give that money to the employer.

Is that the plan?

[N. Theknow]

I suppose there are some who would say those folks were not telling the truth but I think they would be wrong!

Taxes is one part of job loss from the US to other countries. Try to build a refinery and get back to me with what you find out.

Want to build any factory in the US. Meet the regulation monster.

Taxes have been and will be waived for companies wanting to expand into the US. Even in tax hell-holes like NY and Mass. Taxes are one leg of the three legged stool of company planning. Labor costs and regulations are the others.

Make golf shirts in NYC with no corporate taxes as compared to Saigon with no minimum wage, union wage, health care, SS, Medicare, AND low taxes, AND "NO" regulations on whether the new factory will endanger some minute flora or fauna.

What did Archer hear? What he wanted to hear.

[OKSooner]

" In fact, the FairTax, which replaces all federal taxes with a federal retail sales tax and provides a rebate, represents a way to tax wealth, reduce taxes on wages, and disproportionately redistribute money to the poor. A sales tax effectively taxes wealth? It does. When we buy goods and services in a sales tax world, part of the payment goes to sales taxes. So we end up with fewer real goods and services. Take Mr. Megabucks, who is sitting on $65 million and wants to buy a jet like Oprah Winfrey's - a 10-passenger, $50 million Global Express XRS. Under the FairTax, the jet costs him an extra $15 million because of the 30 percent sales tax. Mr. Megabucks gets the jet, but the extra $15 million, which he had budgeted for Beluga caviar, Dom Pérignon, and other flight snacks, goes to Uncle Sam. "

Not only does this guy not have his facts straight, but he confesses with his own writing the things Democrats consider good.

First, the sales tax is 23 percent, which will be embedded in the cost of the plane - compensated for by the hidden taxes the manufacturer no longer has to pay.

Second, he seems to think it's a good thing for some rich dude to NOT get to have his caviar, etc, if that's what he dang well wants to spend his money on, and have to pay a 30% (his faulty numbers, again) tax instead.

I think it's a backhanded deconstruction of the Fair Tax disguised as an endorsement.

[Onerom99]

Exactly.. It’s not going anywhere because too many morons spout off against it when they are totally clueless how it works.

[groanup]

Taxes have been and will be waived for companies wanting to expand into the US. Even in tax hell-holes like NY and Mass.

I'm not aware of any Federal tax programs however, there are cetainly a lot of state ones.

There is estimated to be about 13 trillion dollars in American owned liquid assets being held offshore for tax reasons. Repatriating that money is mostly a matter of removing the tax burden.

You are correct that regulation moves jobs offshore, almost as much as litigation and union pay scales. Taxes, the fourth leg of the stool, are what I and about 600,000 other people are working on.

We FairTaxers welcome your debate and hope that your tax reform bill gets out of committee very soon. What is your tax reform bill?

[groanup]

We need a different plan.

I'm all ears.

[Bigun]

I agree that taxes are but one aspect of the problem but certainly it is a big one that MUST be solved!

Removing tax considerations from the process of making business decisions, as the FairTax would surely do, would go a LONG way toward correcting the problem.

[cec2816]

“In its zeal to extract a pound of flesh from that dastardly “rich guy”, it screws savers, retirees, and anyone who prizes productivity and thrift over consumption. Those folks pay twice.”

Nervous Tick, I challenge you to calm down, read something about the FairTax, and quit wasting your time blogging about something you have no idea what you are talking about. There is no way savers, retirees and productivity will be hurt under the FairTax; though they are being severely damaged under the income tax system, in more ways than you can imagine.

Fox example, under the income tax system, we all pay more for our products because businesses embed their tax compliance costs into the prices of their products, or services. You are currently paying, an average 22 cents out of every dollar you spend to reimburse businesses for their tax compliance costs. Under the FairTax you will pay 23 cents out of every dollar you spend for new goods and services; but, you will not be paying hidden taxes as you are under the income tax system; your income has nothing to do with how much you spend because you keep 100% of your income and pay the tax as you make purchases. You will no longer be paying payroll taxes - they will be paid from the FairTax’s 23 cents out of every dollar you spend.

Savers and Retirees will not be taxed on the incomes they receive through their savings, IRAs, pensions, Social Security, etc., but they will pay the sales tax when they spend their profits on new goods and services. However, because they will receive a “prebate” check the first of each month to cover the tax costs, up to the poverty level of spending, they will not pay taxes from their own earnings until they exceed the Poverty Level of Spending.

Where did you get the silly idea people will be paying twice? Sounds as though you are listening to the critics who have an agenda they are pursuing. We are paying twice and some times three times under our current tax system. We have payroll taxes and income taxes deducted from our paychecks and then pay taxes on our earnings from savings and investments, and when we die we are taxed if we worked hard and made successful investments and our estates exceed a certain level. All these taxes will disappear under the FairTax and we decide how much we pay in taxes by making wise purchasing decisions. Go to www.fairtax.org and get the facts from their research materials, not from some flunky with an agenda.

[cec2816]

Where is the support for the Flat Tax in Congress? Last I looked it had a sponsor and three co-sponsors.

The FairTax has a sponsor and 70 co-sponsors in the House and a sponsor and three co-sponsors in the Senate.

Maybe a little research would do you and Nervous Tick some insight as to why 75 economists around the nation also like the FairTax over both the current income tax and the Flat Tax.

[xcamel]

One should never let a pesky thing called facts mess up a pitchfork-and-torches populist scam.

[xcamel]

...none of which is happening in the 36 countries that have adopted flat-tax systems. another little fact FT’s avoid like the plague.

[Nervous Tick]

I’ve read plenty about the fair tax.

Your post is full of lies and bull$hit.

[xcamel]

In a word.. “yes”... they are.. in spades.

[Nervous Tick]

>> You are currently paying, an average 22 cents out of every dollar you spend to reimburse businesses for their tax compliance costs.

Fabricated numbers. That is, unsupported bull$hit.

[Nervous Tick]

>> Under the FairTax you will pay 23 cents out of every dollar you spend for new goods and services

This is a well-documented DISTORTION employed by the Fair Tax pushers, designed to make the so-called Fair Tax look like it is only 23%. In reality, the so-called Fair Tax will be a THIRTY PERCENT (30%) tax.

[Nervous Tick]

>> Savers and Retirees... will pay the sales tax when they spend their profits on new goods and services.

This is a disingenuous DISTORTION. (The short, clear term for that is a “lie”.)

Savers who spend what they saved will indeed pay the sales tax when they spend their profits.

But they will ALSO pay the sales tax when they spend the PRINCIPAL they saved. And, they ALREADY paid INCOME TAX AT UP TO 40% on that money when they EARNED IT. So they’re being screwed DOUBLE.

This is the BIGGEST LIE perpetrated by the so-called fair tax pushers.

[Nervous Tick]

And here’s the final kicker. The goofy-doofy fair tax dip$hits expect us to believe that the so called fair tax will replace the income tax.

Ha ha ha! Joke’s on us poor taxpaying suckers. The so called fair tax will SUPPLEMENT the income tax.

It’s just like amnesty-before-border-security. The Huckabee bozos will allow implementation of fair tax without demanding (or even requesting) a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT to repeal the income tax.

No thanks. I’m not buying the lies and crap you’re selling.

[xcamel]

Start dividing it out by 220 million taxpayers, and 120 million corporate tax entities, it’s cost mo more than a large cup of starbucks per capita - pure hyperbole at best, and “astronomical numbers out of context” diversionary argument at worst.

[cowboyway]

A 30% retail tax STILL sends business offshore.

23%.

And what business will go offshore because of a retail sales tax? Billionaires buying an 10 million dollar airplane once in a while? What about the average consumer? Are people going to go offshore to buy washers, dryers, power tools, TV's, computers, etc? Are the millions of Wal-Mart shoppers going to start streaming across the border to Canada and Mexico to buy the everyday items that they purchase from their local store? Will the 20 million border jumpers even know that they haven't escaped from paying federal taxes as they're doing now?

Lower wages AND lower taxes.

Please elaborate.