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Do we need guns at Paradise?
Crosscut ^ | 3/5/08 | Knute Berger

Posted on 03/05/2008 8:36:13 AM PST by XR7

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To: XR7

>>
If you can take your hat off in church, you ought to be able to keep your gun in the car when visiting such a place.
<<

This is often said in the same tone of voice as “do we need this? I don’t think so.”, as if the person asking that question somehow has veto power over all the rest of us. Speaking of the rest of us, if you want to leave your firearm in the car, you are free to do so, but don’t stop me from bringing mine along. You may be happy I did. If I misuse it, you are free to inform law enforcement and have me arrested.

On that point, you demonstrate a failed logic: a person who is not restrained by the law against armed robbery, assault, rape or murder (all felonies) will certainly will not be restrained by any laws requiring him to be unarmed.

To assert otherwise is to assert your lack of clear thinking.


41 posted on 03/05/2008 9:47:34 AM PST by theBuckwheat
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To: Disturbin

Here in Oklahoma all state parks allow weapons. In fact, I think you would be hard pressed to find a camper without a gun in their tent, RV, car or pickup. No massacres so far.


42 posted on 03/05/2008 9:49:39 AM PST by ops33
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To: SoldierDad
In several rulings, the US Supreme Court has failed to uphold Felon In Possession (of a firearm) convictions for felons who had temporary access to and use of a firearm to defend themselves. Their reasoning was that self-defense was a basic human right.
43 posted on 03/05/2008 9:50:52 AM PST by theBuckwheat
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To: theBuckwheat
“do we need this? I don’t think so.”,

Leftist liberal elitism.
Effete snobbery.
Aren't you sick of it?

44 posted on 03/05/2008 9:51:20 AM PST by XR7
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To: SoldierDad
Would you be okay for people with violent felony convictions being allowed to carry concealed or openly displayed firearms?

Nice straw-man. Do you build them often?

People with a violent (actually any) felony conviction are already prohibited from owning guns, let alone carrying them.

45 posted on 03/05/2008 9:52:57 AM PST by Bob
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To: XR7
I asked him if he carried a .357 magnum with him in the back country, and he said well, if you take one of those as grizzly protection, you better be sure and file off the gunsight. Why? Because that way, he said, it won't hurt so much when the bear shoves it up your ass.

Nice straw man argument. He deliberately chooses a caliber that would be ineffective against bears to imply that NO gun would be effective against bears. A .44 Mag or better (like the S&W .500) would approach being adequate bear protection.

46 posted on 03/05/2008 9:55:01 AM PST by PapaBear3625
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To: XR7
“How do you feel about allowing loaded guns in our national parks?”

The same way I feel carrying a gun any place else. Safe.
47 posted on 03/05/2008 10:15:53 AM PST by TalonDJ
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To: XR7
Are you determined to protect yourself against overly aggressive squirrels at Hurricane Ridge?

It's not often that I do this because I try to maintain some decorum when discussing the shortcomings of anti-gunners' arguments, but...

What sheltered corner of suburban utopia did this idiot crawl out of? What an absolute flaming ignoramus. This may come as a surprise, but there are people who go to parks for more than a quick guided tour and a few photos. Plus, I don't think your larger variety of wild animal - you know, like those black furry ones that weigh about 600 lbs and can snap your bones like toothpicks - has any regard for marked trails and designated viewing areas.

And do any of these candy-ass "journalists" have an original thought in their heads? They run with the same kind of deprecating sh*t in every single "guns are bad" article.

"Overly aggressive squirrels". Jeez. Grow the F up, princess.

48 posted on 03/05/2008 10:23:37 AM PST by dbwz (kthxbai)
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To: XR7
Democrats have claimed it is a political ploy, backed by the National Rifle Association, to force Democrats to take a tough gun vote during an election year.

As opposed to the Democraps not taking any votes on anything substaintial at all this year.

49 posted on 03/05/2008 10:25:31 AM PST by Pistolshot (Remember, no matter how bad your life is, someone is watching and enjoying your suffering.)
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To: Bob

Perhaps you should take my comment within the context in which is was written before accusing someone of building a straw-man.


50 posted on 03/05/2008 10:25:38 AM PST by SoldierDad (Proud Dad of a 2nd BCT 10th Mountain Soldier home after 15 months in the Triangle of death)
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To: muawiyah
Once knew a lesbian who liked to go camping in national parks

Your revealed history just gets richer by the day!

51 posted on 03/05/2008 10:29:21 AM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurtureā„¢)
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To: XR7
I think the idea of carrying a gun in Paradise is outrageous.

Carrying one on Earth, however, is an entirely different matter. I plan to pack whenever I visit a national park whether it's legal or not. "Better to be judged by twelve..."

As for our parks being safe havens from crime (is the author really that stupid?), Berger should try a Google search for "national parks crystal meth." This brings up the USDOJ: Meth Awareness Homepage and a National Park Service page on Mohave National Preserve.

According to the Department of Justice "Small Toxic Labs produce smaller quantities of meth. These labs can be set up in homes, motel rooms, inside automobiles, and in PARKS or rural areas -- really almost anywhere."

The National Park Service tells us that "One of the most dangerous consequences of Mojave's nearness to urban areas is the use of the park by illegal narcotics manufacturers and drug dealers. Manufacture of illegal methamphetamine, often referred to as 'crystal meth,' has posed a considerable problem to the park."

If Berger and his Alaskan friend want to smooth their gun barrels, or other cylindrical objects, to facilitate their own rectal violation, that is their choice.

As for myself, I plan to keep my front site in working order so as to increase my hit probability when I am threatened by a Hell's Angel or other meth-producing outlaw.

USDOJ Page: http://www.usdoj.gov/methawareness/

NPS Page: http://www.nps.gov/archive/moja/adminhist/adhi7.htm

52 posted on 03/05/2008 10:31:01 AM PST by Brouhaha
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To: XR7

***Pepper spray is both non-lethal and more effective, since you don’t have to hit a bulls-eye to deter a charging griz.***

Reminds me of a joke in my area....

Tourist: How do I protect myself from bears in the woods?
Park Ranger: You wear bells on your shoes cause bears hate the sounds and you take pepper spray.
Tourist: How do I know bears are nearby?
Ranger: You will find feces full of bells and smelling like pepper.

If MORONS would quit feeding the bears, they would be quite a bit more shy of people instead of associating them with dinner. I worry more about cats.


53 posted on 03/05/2008 10:35:40 AM PST by Lord_Calvinus
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To: caver
This author has said so many stupid things in such a short article that it’s hard to figure out where to start.

How about here:
"...Kempthorne (the former Idaho governor of Idaho)."

As opposed to the Idaho governor of New Jersey?

54 posted on 03/05/2008 10:38:08 AM PST by LexBaird (Behold, thou hast drinken of the Aide of Kool, and are lost unto Men.)
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To: brazzaville

“That sounds like an admission that gun grabbing is a losing issue. So they know that the majority opposes gun control, yet still try to force it on us by any means possible.”

Great point! I hadn’t looked at it that way. Thanks for opening my eyes.


55 posted on 03/05/2008 10:45:17 AM PST by caver (Yes, I did crawl out of a hole in the ground.)
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To: XR7
National parks don't look like Paradise-like "crime free" zones to me!...

Below are the Level I crime statistics for National Parks (these are the most serious reported crimes):

PART I OFFENSES........2006...2005...2004...2003

Homicide/Manslaughter.......11.....17.....13......8
Rape - Forced/Attempted....35.....49.....64.....48
Robbery...........................61.....68.....68.....65
Kidnapping........................16......5......6......8
Aggravated Assault.........261....225....288....246
Burglary...........................411....436....448....468
Larceny/Theft...................3465...3696...3488...3192
Motor Vehicle Theft...........146....174....171....135
Arson...............................79.....83....110.....89

TOTALS....................4485...4753...4656...4259

Below is a partial listing of Level II offenses (less serious)...

PART II OFFENSES.......2006...2005...2004...2003

Other Assaults-no weapon...320....311....322....355
Stolen Property...............447....536....458....476
Vandalism....................3064...2641...2825...3094
Weapons......................1950...1674...1926...1703
Sex Offenses..................362....487....529....393
Offenses Against Children.142....187.....22....192
Drug Abuse...................6348...5744...5469...5419
Disorderly Conduct...........2770...3034...4959...2971

*(sorry for the unprofessional formatting)

Incident Reporting Procedures

56 posted on 03/05/2008 10:46:02 AM PST by Gritty (You don't like you can't have a gun on campus? Drop out of school! -Peter Hamm, Brady Campaign)
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To: XR7

We need to be able to carry guns in our parks. In my state of Washington, besides all the meth lab operations in our national forests we recently had a mother and daughter killed in the forest. Case remains unsolved.


57 posted on 03/05/2008 10:54:25 AM PST by Vicki (Washington State where anyone can vote .... illegals, non-residents, dead people, dogs, felons)
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To: XR7
How do you feel about allowing loaded guns in our national parks?

Why the hell should anyone care how I feel when considering legislation?

Ask me what do I THINK about a subject.

I THINK that guns are a great idea in the wilderness in case of bear, wolf or cougar attacks.

58 posted on 03/05/2008 10:59:49 AM PST by Centurion2000 (su - | echo "All your " | chown -740 us ./base | kill -9 | cd / | rm -r | echo "belong to us")
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To: XR7

That self defense is a natural right is an important distinction to make, however, in this world we infringe on God’s territory with statutes all the time.


59 posted on 03/05/2008 11:09:45 AM PST by Mr.Grumble
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To: SoldierDad
Perhaps you should take my comment within the context in which is was written before accusing someone of building a straw-man.

I don't see anything in the context that makes your statement anything less than a straw-man argument. Since convicted felons are already prohibited from simply owning firearms (yet many of them somehow seem to have them anyway), any concern about those convicted felons carrying concealed is ludicrous.

60 posted on 03/05/2008 11:20:37 AM PST by Bob
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