Posted on 03/11/2008 8:05:26 AM PDT by abb
U again on this same issue????
Cop said turn around, the guy turned around. All happened in about 2 seconds.
If he would have obeyed every turned around command he would have been doing circles.
AAG Cheney is a liar, and this statement will no doubt follow his career, making his future road quite bumpy.
There was zip justification for this individual being violently electrocuted.
It happens much, perhaps most of the time. LEO’s tend to not only think they are above the law, often they believe they ARE the law. Given that usually they can get away with breaking the law, one has to wonder if they are not right. It's one of the reasons more and more people don't go anywhere without a video or audio recorder. It's a small measure of insurance against police abuse of power.
Anyone with a brain, that isn't in a coma, that watched the video, can see this.
I would have never settled for 40k, and would have went after them for many times that amount.
blah,blah,blah.
If Mr. Massey, who was properly being ticketed for speeding, had signed the ticket, none of this would have happened.
By refusing to sign the ticket, by arguing repeatedly with the officer, what was he thinking he would accomplish?
They put cameras in stores, and have store detectives that watch for shoplifters.
Since they do this in the stores, where these crimes occur, are they money grabbing, out of control store detectives who set up ‘traps’ for poor innocent shoplifters?
If this was a speed ‘trap’, what makes it OK to violate the posted speed limit?
Oh, I forgot. Mr. Massey is terminally blind, so he couldn’t see the first speed limit sign, nor the red flags, nor the loose gravel sign, nor the POLICE CAR IN FRONT OF HIM.
At some construction work, they have a guy holding up a temporary STOP sign. Know what happens if you run through it?
“The LEO is just peeved cuz he’s being questioned and wants to torture the guy so he gets ‘taught a lesson.’”
And you “know” this because you are a psychic?
” I told you that civil case would never be allowed to go to a jury, because they would be very sympathetic towards Massey.”
“And, that Massey would be awarded money for his pain.”
I guess you were right!
“His offense was something he SHOULD (and was) fined for... NOT arrested... and CERTAINLY NOT tasered.”
Which wouldn’t have happened, had he signed the ticket which he was self-admittedly guilty of.
But no. He was going to prove the cop wrong. Right then and there. He was ‘in charge’ and wasn’t going to listen to any authority, even if they could taser him, handcuff him, or lock him up.
Was he?
Thanks for your comments.
My whole issue in this is not so much the cop's mistakes, yes he made some, but it pertains more to Massey. As I have said several times, arguing with a cop never helps. He should have saved it for the judge.
“You, on the other hand, never seem to want to admit any error on Gardner’s part.”
Nonsense. I have stated before that in my opinion if Officer Gardner wanted to place Mr. Massey in custody, after his refusal to sign, that he should have waited for backup, especially since there was another adult in the vehicle.
Maybe the Officer could have used some psychological techniques, maybe he could have patiently explained ‘real slow’ the consequences of not signing the ticket, maybe he could have begged Mr. Massey to forgive him for having had the gall to pull him over for doing 61 in a 40.
Once it got to the stage where the Officer had decided to take Mr. Massey into custody, and the driver did not cooperate, and appeared to be walking away from the officer, towards his car, the Officer made valid and acceptable usage of the taser.
Even the UTAH PD says so.
Now, there are many other tasering cases where I would be the first to admit the LEO was wrong. was unjustified.
I just disagree with this one.
I also disagree with people who jump on every Tasering thread (here and other websites) and immediately say BAD COP.
They get real easy to identify after a few threads.
‘Next time you get pulled over by a cop try the Massey approach: Don’t do what the cop tells you to do.”
So is it ok for cops to act any way they want towards citizens?
“There was no rational reason for Massey to have been arrested.”
Other than refusing to sign the ticket, arguing with the officer, demanding the officer follow him down the road to prove the sign he was pointing to? was there.
If you get pulled over for DUI and you refuse to take the breathalyzer test, what happens? Do they let you go?
The world would be so much simplier if we didnt have any rights and the cops could do what ever they wanted.
“If you get pulled over for DUI and you refuse to take the breathalyzer test, what happens? Do they let you go?”
Depends if you’re a cop or not.
I posted to you earlier and clearly stated that the cop made mistakes, so did Massey.
“What the core issue is(,is) whether traffic laws of this nature are just, and not the behavior of the driver or the trooper during the incident.
The driver admitted to doing 61 mph. The posted speed limit was 40mph. How is that unjust?
The behavior of the driver and trooper is the substance and whole of what this discussion on these threads has been about.
Had the driver just signed.....
Had the trooper just waited for backup....
Had the driver put his hands behind his back...
Had the trooper just dropped the ticket in the driver’s window....
on, and on.
“My argument is with the stupidity of the law the officer was enforcing and not necessarily the officer as such.”
So, you are saying that enforcing posted speed limits is stupid?
“I posted to you earlier and clearly stated that the cop made mistakes, so did Massey.”
Yes both made mistakes. Both acted foolishly. The difference is the cop was acting under color of the law. This guy clearly doesn’t have the temperament to be a cop.
If he can’t handle some young jerk how would he ever handle a real criminal?
“The existence of such laws on the books does not make them just.”
True. There are even laws on the books that make no sense, or do not apply to anything anymore.
“The protection at all costs mentality has got to stop.”
So, if you are speeding, get caught, delay producing your ID, argue with the Officer, Start barking orders to the officer, and then, when being told to turn around and place your hands behind your back, start walking away indicating you aren’t going to cooperate nor listen, and you get TASERED, shouldn’t you have a right to PROTECTION AT ALL COSTS from this type of jackboot thuggery?
In which one of those videos does Mr. Massey take responsibility for speeding (he admitted doing 61mph), even if he did not see the signs, and sign the ticket, after which he drives away with wife and child, into the sunset?
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