Posted on 03/11/2008 9:33:27 AM PDT by NormsRevenge
I'm glad we agree that we do not have free trade with China. However, there seems to be a plan to create huge port facilities on the Pacific side of Mexico to blast all the Chinese and other Asian stuff through the Trans Texas Corridor. Now it seems to me that it's not so easy to cleanly separate NAFTA from "countries that do not practice free trade."
We in Texas have have to wipe the cow cr*p off after hearing from our illustrious state officials, who seem only too eager to sell us out.
Take a look at my dear Transportation Commissioner Ted Houghton. Earlier in this meeting he had lied when he said that the highway would not be for cargo containers. Then Houghton said it would not be a NAFTA highway because "it would not connect to Mexico." Then laughter from the audience. We are being sold out.
One think I do not like about NAFTA is that it will permit Mexican truckers, whom we have no way of really identifying, and have no reliable police/safety records, to drive all over the USA. I despise both Dem candidates and would never vote for either, but they say they want to re-negotiate NAFTA, which is really flawed, while McCain thinks it is just fine. I'm not sure how that will affect the election in "the big picture," but it does demonstrate to me more McCain warts.
I’m astonished people are bashing McCain here for NOT taking a socialist position on trade.
NAFTA was the primary cause of the great economic expansion in North America during the 1990s. I remember the Goracle, when back when he was partially sane, totally taking loony Ross Perot to school on the issue, even bringing up the disasterous Smoot-Hawley tariff.
The only complaint people have now is that we’re losing manufacturing jobs. You people are just as stupid as the physiocrats of the late 1700s who thought that agriculture magically made an economy solid.
Just in case I’m not clear, I have complete contempt for the DEY TURK MUH JEEERRRRRB folks. As Romney pointed out, given the rise of China, India, and Eastern Europe, we need America to be *more* competitive. Instead, socialists and their nimrod paleocon friends want America to be anti-competitive— we will rot away like Western Europe if we pursue that course of action.
>>The only complaint people have now is that we’re losing manufacturing jobs.<<
Nope, that’s what you get for posting without reading the posts.
>>we will rot away like Western Europe if we pursue that course of action.<<
Not that I think tariffs are the answer, but how is the US $ doing against the Euro?
—Buchannan ran before the bad effects of NAFTA and other trade policies were known. McCain is running in a year when most Americans (even conservatives at FR) have realize that trade as practiced now is a disaster. McCain will lose and probably on the NAFTA issue the way the electoral maps is drawn.-—
Bingo. We have a winner!
One concern I have with NAFTA, mentioned on another thread:
NAFTA has a provision which forces the USA to allow Mexican truck drivers to go all over the USA.
If the open borders crowd here bothered to learn Spanish and actually talked to Mexicans, they would discover the truth.
I have talked to Mexican 18-wheeler drivers who say they don’t have insurance because, if they had it, the insurance companies never pay claims.
No real driver records. Since they don’t pay cops anything, when you get stopped for a traffic violation (alleged or real), a phenomenon occurs called “la mordida.” You pay the cop, problem solved. No records of the offense, why bother?
It’s getting worse because of the drug wars. And do you think letting these truckers have free access to our roads and the 80MPH, 1200 foot wide Trans Texas Corridor is going to make this country safe from drugs and terrorists?
Not even the Dems will Repeal NAFTA — They say it should be renegotiated. I think NAFTA has cost us some jobs and created others. But I do think it would be a good idea to look at specific details of NAFTA like the Mexican Truckers provision and Chinese (not “free trade”) goods coming in through Mexico.
I expect McCain, like Bush, to try to keep the unfortunate aspects of NAFTA in place.
I'd rather the goods get unloaded there instead of Lazaro Cardenas or somewhere else in Mexico, but c'mon guys, do you want to keep your jobs or not? How about shutting the hell up and doing your jobs.
>>Meanwhile, the ILWU is shutting down our West Coast ports on May 1st (!) to protest the war.
I’d rather the goods get unloaded there instead of Lazaro Cardenas or somewhere else in Mexico, but c’mon guys, do you want to keep your jobs or not? How about shutting the hell up and doing your jobs.<<
I complain about businesses making profits while putting the welfare of their nation at a much lower priority, but the idea of the leaders of ILWU to strike on May Day(!) to stop the war is disturbing and despicable.
All I want is to have NAFTA and other trade agreements renegotiated. As written, they are killing American business. The other thing I want is for the US to enforce trade agreements. For example, EADS is being sued by our government because they are subsidized by their government. Yet, an multi-billion contract airplane contract was awarded to them by the Air Force-absolutely unfair period.
These trade agreements are being used as tools of foreign policy-it is never a good idea to do this. They allow foreign companies to commit gross violation of WTO rules and do nothing. You can not throw millions of Americans out of work via unfair trade policies, outsourcing and H Visas and not expect serious repercussions. McCain will not win Ohio-by defending NAFTA. McCain lives in a bubble and has no idea what it is like in the real world. He has been in Washington too long.
I know this. However, McCain is for this as is Pres. Bush.
Really, China uses slave labor and has no standards of any sort. How are we going to compete? Your slightly offensive attitude might change if your job was on the line. Good paying jobs which helped stabilize our economy and our country as a society are going away. What kind of jobs will replace these jobs-assuming they are replaced? I believe these jobs will not be replaced-nor will the millions of jobs lost in the future because of ill advised trade agreements-poorly written and more often than not used as a bargaining chip in foreign policy. I promise you, if McCain spouts the same old garbage about retraining...blah blah, he will lose the entire Midwest and probably Pennsylvania as well. ultimately John McCain will lose the presidency.
The US China trade is governed by the WTO. Also, China has a ‘most favored nation trading partner status’. I have no idea why. China drove the garment industry our of business by dumping huge amounts of textiles below cost on our markets. Our government looked the other way as usual.
Of course we do not have free trade with Japan. This would meant Japan would have to open their markets to US products such as cars. Something they have always been unwilling to do. We have trade agreements with many countries-most one sided. Our markets are open theirs are closed.
It was the only American company among ten or twelve brands. It’s the first American company in oh maybe 15 or 20 years. They are fighting for their live despite having a well priced really good product.
You deliberately misunderstand-free trade policies (perceived as unfair) will lead to socialism because the policies are causing unemployment...I don’t wish this to happen. If people are thrown out of work, they will demand more government programs. It is inevitable. When McCain goes to Michigan and tell auto-workers ‘the manufacturing jobs are not coming back’, with no hope, no alternative, no good news. He might as well cede the battle to the Democrats and their policies of socialism. McCain must be living in some kind of bubble and is committing political suicide given the election maps in the last 20 years.
As for WTO cases involving the U.S. and Japan, we've won some and lost some. And the Japanese still haven't (re)opened their market to American beef, so you can easily say the record is mixed.
No-Clinton undermined Obama’s NAFTA claims when she accused him of assuring the Canadiannes that he was only talking tough and had no intention of changing NAFTA...it later was proven that Clinton surrogates actually said this, but Ohio was over. So you see, Obama lost support in Ohio over the NAFTA issue-McCain will have no support if he continues to champion this issue. I can see the Dems playing the Michigan spot where he says ‘the jobs are not coming back’ over and over again throughout the Midwest-he is toast.
I agree with everything you say...I too support fair free trade. I believe our markets should be as open on a case by case basis depending on how a country treats us. They close their markets to US business, we close our markets. They subsidize their businesses...then we don’t do business with them-quite simple. China is a different issue. Here, we are selling our very security for the cheap garbage they make. It’s wrong. They spend their money on weapons which will one day be used against us.
Go to any store...try finding American products. Manufacturing is only up in the fake statistics being produced by the government. There are lies, damn lies and statistics...as the old saying tells us.
We lose most of the WTO lawsuits because they are reflexively anti-American. We are in a lose-lose position which is why I believe we need private trade agreements with individual countries which should be based on how open the foreign market is. Japan is using their advantage to price cars below the market in the US and making up for it in Japan where they face no competition. There is no reason for this situation to have gone on for over thirty years...something needs to be done about trade-fair trade.
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