Three Scientists Probed In 2001 Anthrax Attacks

Fox News ^ | 3/28/08 | Catherine Herridge and Ian McCaleb

[SargeK]

WASHINGTON — The FBI has narrowed its focus to "about four" suspects in the 6 1/2-year investigation of the deadly anthrax attacks of 2001, and at least three of those suspects are linked to the Army’s bioweapons research facility at Fort Detrick in Maryland, FOX News has learned.

Among the pool of suspects are three scientists — a former deputy commander, a leading anthrax scientist and a microbiologist — linked to the research facility, known as USAMRIID.

[Sacajaweau]

Always said that the Florida dude was a "walk in" job...and in something he ate or possessed.

Interestingly, remember the sniper kid. He was going to school in Florida at the time

On the day it was announced that the Florida guy died (I think October 5th)...the kid didn't show up for school...and no one can confirm his whereabouts for a few days.

I think the kid was the courier...and his last task was to drop the Senator letters in the box.

He then took off for California to meet his "father". Remember, that creepy father was openly gleeful about 9-11 and with his connections to Jersey, DC, the military...AND he would have been aware of the necessary meds for Anthrax...penicillen is just fine. Of course, we dictated the "best of the best" in meds, probably more because we were dealing with politicians...not ordinary souls like you and me. So why did they turn into snipers? Because they never got paid? Probably...They were mooching off everyone. I'd like to say they were both mentally ill but I don't believe that. They were deliberate in every way and now, they simply consider themselves martyrs.

The snipers had a very strong pattern...Recon, setup, retreat to a "safe house" and repeat.

The same pattern holds for the letter drops....just not as many times.

The scientists?? There are so many foreigners in our Medical system. My doctor is wonderful and he's an Egyptian.

I think the scientist will turn out to be an Egyptian.

[Battle Axe]

I will be conversing with each of you via your private FR mail. You will have to have a start date prior to 2004 for me to include you on the list.

You’ll understand why when you read what I have to say.

[ZacandPook]

Perhaps someone could get a better resolution of this screen capture of the actual email described in the FoxNews report.

Anthrax, USAMRIID and Qaeda’s Inside Man
http://www.bloggernews.net/114819

One alternative is to have someone ask the reporter for a copy of the redacted email.

[EdLake]

Perhaps someone could get a better resolution of this screen capture of the actual email described in the FoxNews report.

I know of no way to unblur a blurred image in a situation like this. Technically, experts with all the time, equipment and money in the world can sometimes do such a thing by working backwards through the original lens.

However, individual screen captures are usually not as clear as the "moving image" since the "moving image" is a series of many images, each slightly different. So, the best bet here might be to try to view an enlarged version of the video over and over to see if anything can be made out.

One alternative is to have someone ask the reporter for a copy of the redacted email.

If Fox News is going to reveal that email, they'll probably do it in a way that will make news. Since they deliberately blurred it, though, there's a good chance that it shows something that hurts their story -- like a date that goes back to late 2001 or early 2002. But, if anyone finds an unblurred version of that email, I'd certainly like to see it.

I find it interesting that only Fox News has this story. It's floating out there like a turd in a swimming pool.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

[piasa]

I do recall an article about the Army successfully duplicating it quite a while ago, but it will take me some time to find the link to the article.

[jpl]

My take on this report pretty much echoes PaRepub07 in post 58 when he says "This report sounds like a smoke-screen for the Hatfill debacle."

The timing of this story is certainly pretty interesting, since you have two Appeals courts that are going to be making absolutely critical rulings very soon in both Hatfill v. New York Times and Hatfill v. Ashcroft, et al. I just want to know when they have enough to arrest someone and bring down a series of criminal indictments, because until they have that, what they have isn't worth a bucket of warm spit in my mind.

In the meatime, until the day that happens I'm going to continue wondering just when Senator Leahy is going to finally get around to issuing that first subopena to the FBI regarding "Amerithrax" in order to try and get some real information. Because the democrats have been running the show for well over a year now.

[TrebleRebel]

Does anyone care to have a go at the puzzle?



Sent: Tuesday June 27 2006 7:38 AM
Subject: M??? ????

(1) xxxxxx was giving his opinion on xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(2) I examine all of the letter spore powder samples.
(3) ??????. That he said the ??? ?? ??? at a slick off ????? that the FBI had
(4) other material. Things the ??????? ??? ??? this ??? duplication
(5) was if
(6)
(7)
(8) weapons that xxxxxxx was ???? ?? ????? ??? In the letter incident
(9) was finding it was actually funny. The sentences were quite valuable ??
(10) words and phrases xxx said that xxxx was the deputy Commander
(11) just believe that I had heard xx had made Ames spore powder just
(12)xx heard that xxxxxxx either knew about it or was behind it and that
(13) ???

[TrebleRebel]

anyone care to try to translate the email? What is the date, also what is the subject?

[TrebleRebel]

updated translation:

Sent: Tuesday June 27 2006 7:38 AM
Subject: M??? ????

(1) xxxxxx was giving his opinion on xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(2) ? examine all of the letter spore powder samples.
(3) ??????. Then he said he had a look at a lot of samples that the FBI had
(4) other material. Then the ??????? that the best duplication
(5) was if xxxxx xxxxxxxxx exactly about looking at
(6) xxxxxx coming on and ????? ??????? xxx ??? ???? if this powder
(7) ? knees got shaky and he sputtered “Buy I told the general we didn’t
(8) weapons that xxxxxxx was ???? ?? ????? ??? In the letter incident
(9) was finding it was actually funny. The sentences were quite valuable ??
(10) words and phrases xxx said that xxxx was the deputy Commander
(11) just believe that I had heard xx had made Ames spore powder just
(12)xx heard that xxxxxxx either knew about it or was behind it and that
(13) ???

[Sacajaweau]

I have a pretty good visual memory. Prior to 9-11, I remember a program that was aired about a research lab...and it was probably Detrick.

They were talking about the different types of chems we keep and the testing etc...

When I saw this, I thought OUT LOUD....Why the heck are they showing this. It really filled me with rage because it was "so secret".

Occasionally, scientists were shown at work. I almost called the TV station...to find out more. I regret that I didn't.

When the anthrax drop occured, the program flashed in my mind. Is there anyone out there who also remembers this program being on national TV. I don't have cable...so it must have been a major channel.

[jpl]

Am I the only person who’s a little skeptical about the veracity of this e-mail, or am I just getting way too suspicious in my old age?

[TrebleRebel]

Sure, I’m suspiscious about it - but since it’s the first piece of new news on the case in years, it’s worthwhile going over with a fine tooth-comb.
It raises a lot of questions. Who wrote it? How did Fox get it? Did the same person who wrote it give it to Fox, or was it another person?
Is the date on really Tuesday June 27, 2006?

Did the FBI really send a bunch of reverse-engineered powders to Detrick to compare with the attack powder as the email claims? That part sounds feasible. As far as I know the attack powder is still on lock-down inside Detrick - the only person with access is John Ezzel - and even then he requires authorization to retrieve it when it’s needed for analysis.

[EdLake]

Am I the only person who’s a little skeptical about the veracity of this e-mail

Careful. TrebleRebel appears to TOTALLY accept it as if it were holy writ.

To me, it looks like just another guy putting 2 and 2 together and getting 123934972973797.

I've had contact with at least a half dozen people in the government who think they know who sent the anthrax letters. And I've probably had contact with 200 people outside of the government who think they know who sent the anthrax letters.

The only thing likely to be proven by the email is: Working for the government doesn't automatically make you smarter than everyone else.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

[EdLake]

Did the FBI really send a bunch of reverse-engineered powders to Detrick to compare with the attack powder as the email claims?

The whole story about "reverse engineering" was a crock. According to Chemical & Engineering News:

Daniel Martin, a microbiologist in Dugway's Life Sciences Division, tells C&EN that Dugway was asked "to produce materials to see how they compared with the materials the FBI had in its possession." But, Martin says, Dugway did not reverse or back engineer the attack powder. "Back engineering implies that you know exactly what the material is and can replicate the material exactly, step by step." That isn't what Dugway did, he says.

Instead, Martin says, Dugway used the Leahy powder as the culture starter to "produce several different preparations using different media, and different ways of drying and milling the preparation" that the FBI could use for comparison purposes. Dugway, he says, never analyzed the Leahy powder and did no comparative analyses between the preparations made and the Leahy powder.

In other words, the people creating the "different preparations" at Dugway had just used spores to create more spores. They made no attempt to "reverse engineering it.

What Dugway and others did was to prepare spore powders in a large variety of ways, and then tests were done to see what characteristics those powders displayed. The anthrax powder used in the attacks was also examined to see what characteristics that powder showed. Then the tests could be forensically compared to see which process was most likely used to create the attack anthrax.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

[ZacandPook]

This theory of the anthrax mailings was first touched on in September 2006 but sourced to an FBI affidavit instead of an anonymous email.

Hardball Tactics in an Era of Threats - washingtonpost.com
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ content/article/2006/09/02/AR2006090201096.html

See generally
FoxNews Anthrax Report: Outline of the Solution
http://www.bloggernews.net/114909

[ZacandPook]

Specifically, the theory at the link above involves a Former Deputy Commander, a leading scientist, and a microbiologist.

Ed’s theory does not.

It’s understandable why he wants to squeeze his eyes shut and wish real hard for the FoxNews report not to be confirmed.

[TrebleRebel]

“The whole story about “reverse engineering” was a crock.”

I think not. For starters, the Fox News obtained email explicitly says “Then he said he had to look at a lot of samples that the FBI had prepared ... to duplicate the letter material,”. To duplicate the letter material does not just imply reverse engineering - it states it as a fact.

It was announced by the director of the FBI himself in November 2002 that they were attempting to recreate the powder.

http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?articleid=24286&ref=rellink
The bureau has been working for months to reconstruct the spores, FBI Director Robert Mueller said Nov. 1, according to The Washington Post. “We’re replicating the way or ways it might be manufactured, but it is not an easy task,” the Post quoted Mueller as saying. “We are going into new territory in some areas,” he added.

So it is hardly a “crock” that the FBI were reverse engineering the powder.

Of course, we should remember that when Ed Lake reads the quote from Mueller “We’re replicating the way or ways it might be manufactured” he sees: “We’re not reverse engineering the powder, we’re just making preparations randomly and hoping one might match”

[ZacandPook]

Actually, there’s no reason to get hung up on or focus on the phrase “reverse engineering.” They would want to create samples of powder in all the various ways in which it might have been made so that the results — the determination of the closest match — is meaningful. Here, it was found that the powder made by leading scientist Ken Alibek was closest. It was assumed by the person who had spoken with the email writer that Chuck Bailey knew what his colleague was doing. They were working under a contract using Delta Ames that they had obtained from NIH. There was a multi-million dollar DARPA grant funding the USAMRIID contract. Al-Timimi had access to the know-how pre-patent, pre-classification. See March 14, 2001 patent application. Dr. Alibek and Dr. Bailey were not guilty of anything. The writer of the email, of course, only has the limited perspective of the forensics — what powder was said to be the closest match. It was Ken who years ago told me the FBI’s theory. Ed never even bothered to ask him who he understood the FBI to suspect.

[ZacandPook]

Actually, there’s no reason to get hung up on or focus on the phrase “reverse engineering.” They would want to create samples of powder in all the various ways in which it might have been made so that the results — the determination of the closest match — is meaningful. Here, it was found that the powder made by leading scientist Ken Alibek was closest. It was assumed by the person who had spoken with the email writer that Chuck Bailey knew what his colleague was doing. They were working under a contract using Delta Ames that they had obtained from NIH. There was a multi-million dollar DARPA grant funding the USAMRIID contract. Al-Timimi had access to the know-how pre-patent, pre-classification. See March 14, 2001 patent application. Dr. Alibek and Dr. Bailey were not guilty of anything. The writer of the email, of course, only has the limited perspective of the forensics — what powder was said to be the closest match. It was Ken who years ago told me the FBI’s theory. Ed never even bothered to ask him who he understood the FBI suspected.

[EdLake]

Of course, we should remember that when Ed Lake reads the quote from Mueller “We’re replicating the way or ways it might be manufactured” he sees: “We’re not reverse engineering the powder, we’re just making preparations randomly and hoping one might match”

Exactly.

"replicating the way or ways it might be manufactured" is NOT "reverse engineering."

"Back engineering implies that you know exactly what the material is and can replicate the material exactly, step by step."

For example: If someone invented a "better mousetrap" and you wanted to copy it and make money off of it for yourself, you would "reverse engineer" it as follows: (1) Buy one of the mousetraps. (2) Take it apart and study it, figure out exactly how it works. (3) Build (a.k.a. engineer) an assembly line that will make exact copies of it for your company.

There is no way to take apart a spore to figure out exactly how it was made.

Instead, you have to do as you say they did not do: just make preparations and hope one will match.

They have to do that for other reasons as well. That kind of work is required for forensic testimony in court. You can't just go into court and claim that, because you were able to make some spores that look very much like the attack spores, that you can prove that "Mr. X" made the spores. You have to prove that the spores could NOT have been made just as easily some other way that wouldn't involved "Mr. X."

If you reverse engineered that better mousetrap and created a new assembly line to make exact copies, there is no reason to believe that the assembly line you build is exactly the same the same as the assembly line that built the original.

If you can create a duplicate of a spore, that doesn't mean it was made the same way as the original.

You wrote:

the Fox News obtained email explicitly says “Then he said he had to look at a lot of samples that the FBI had prepared ... to duplicate the letter material,”. To duplicate the letter material does not just imply reverse engineering - it states it as a fact.

Exactly. Therefore, if that's what the guy who wrote that in the email believed, then he doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com