Posted on 03/30/2008 6:56:17 PM PDT by rmlew
(Note: be sure to read Alex K.'s illuminating response to the points I raise below.)
Just a passing question. The Wall Street Journal is opposed to statism, yes? Has the Journal raised jeremiads against, warned about, opposed, criticized, or even mildly questioned Europe's steady march toward a quasi-totalitarian superstate subsuming the ancient states of Europe?
Offhand, I'm not aware that the Journal or of any mainstream "conservative" publication have stood against this impending horror. In the same way, the "conservatives" are evidently going along with John "Patriot" McCain's newly minted internationalism, including his support for the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America and its extension to all the America's, the ultimate end of which is the elimination of the national sovereignty of its member states, just as is happening under the EU.
Let's face it. The entire political and media elite of the Western world is our enemy.
Another thought on McCain's speech. Just as he has always instinctively sided with Democrats against Republicans (while constantly calling himself a "proud Republican"), and sided with liberals against conservatives (while constantly calling himself a "proud conservatve"), he is now instinctively siding with the "international order" against America (while boasting of his patriotism). He also keeps addressing conservatives and Americans as "my friends," even though he despises conservatives and Americans and wants to Hispanize their country, merge it with Latin America and Canada, and make it subservient to a global order.
Alex K. writes:
You expressed wonder at the fact that mainstream conservative publications do not seem to be opposing Europe's "steady march toward a quasi-totalitarian superstate subsuming the ancient states of Europe."I know I've read some articles in the mainstream conservative press about the impending EUSSR, but even those few (about which I'm afraid I cannot remember much offhand) were either purely informative or informative-tinged-with-Schadenfreude. As I said, they were few and far between and didn't leave a vivid impression on me.
For the most part the establicons are all paler versions of Mark Steyn: when they even acknowledge what's happening to Europe, they mainly just mock it for its decline, and congratulate themselves that it isn't happening here and never will because ... well, because we're so conservative. And that's when they acknowledge it at all. They usually only discuss Europe in terms of denouncing it for getting in America's way.
By paler Steyns, I mean that Steyn talks a lot about Europe's existential problem, mainly the demographic stuff of course, but also about the elite imposition of the superstate, but he mainly does it (a) to laugh at them, and (b) to warn Americans that we're going to have to liberalize the Islamic world, since it is shortly going to include Europe. But we've covered all that lunacy before! Most establicons follow the Steyn model, they just broach the subject much less often and their Schadenfreude isn't so overtly jokey.
In fact, this may be a major reason Steyn is so revered among the mainstream cons, and why they praise him to the stars but never actually grapple with his demographic points themselves. They're basically uninterested in the rest of the West except when it's backing us (yay Howard! yay Sarkozy!) or when it's getting up in our grill (most of the time). Whereas Steyn, international man of commentary that he is, regularly likes to string together little items from around the world into the cosmopolitan confections of his columns. So to them he looks like a global visionary. And they're too uninterested to follow up on the issues he raises themselves. And there's no reason they feel they should have to do that, because, for all his focus on Europe, he just says what they're saying: laugh at the dying Europeans (that's what they get for giving us grief), and rejoice that it can't happen here. So the only implication for us is that we must liberalize Muslims. Which we wanted to do anyway, since we're going to keep letting them in here. Where they will assimilate anyway, because assimilation always happens with American immigration. Okay, at this point I can only assume that they've stopped thinking altogether. So while they laud Steyn for his dazzling worldliness, he really just reinforces their lack of concern for the Old World, since all his commentary on it amounts to the same disdain.
Finally, I think your connection between the conservatives' indifference to the growth of the EU superstate and their support for the internationalist McCain is important. No, they're not in favor of the socialist totalitarianism that is rising in Europe. But they are in favor of globalizing markets. So if they have to accommodate the expansion of the EUSSR's centralized power in order to get Turkey into the EU, they'll take it. They can deal with any mental or moral imbalance this causes by occasionally clucking their tongues lightly about the EU's socialism or by just seeing-no-evil altogether. Similarly, they're not in favor of McCain's liberalism. But they are in favor of Iraq Forever. So if they have to accommodate McCain's leftism and internationalism in order to stay the course in Iraq, they will do so. Again, they've so far seemed to deal with this by either going easy on McCain's leftism or even (as with his foreign policy speech last week) seeing and hearing no evil at all.
There are some divisions among the conservatives: NR was of course vaguely against McCain for a while, in contrast to the enthusiastic support (if not Giuliani-level support) of the Weekly Standard types. But they're sure not making a big deal anymore about whatever it is they once briefly objected to. What they can all agree on is the need to ignore McCain's awfulness or at most treat it like some minor policy disagreements, overshadowed by the big issue of liberalizing the world. Likewise: Does NR want the borderless market-world quite as much as the Wall Street Journal does? No, but they're obviously not going to make a big deal about it opposing it. Do they support Turkey's accession to the EU, the way the full-throated globalists do? Well, some of them do, and the others aren't fighting hard against it. What they can all agree on is the need to ignore the death of Europe or at most treat it as an unimportant, if amusing, development, just something that happens to civilizations that don't progress the right way.
What is there to say? Europe has been commiting slow death suicide for so long, everything has been said to death.
As an aside, has anyone noticed how utterly left the WSJ reporting has become?
Yes.
Conservatives are supposed to hate politics and government. If you love politics and government, while claiming conservative pedigree, you are regarded with suspicion and distrust.
So, what is the right answer? Organize for an assault for Euroweenies? Let’s get some feedback here...
And in the USA.
i like and subscribe to the wsj.
but i wouldn’t describe it as “conservative.”
it’s a mixed bag:
1. the articles tend to the left of center, according to media research.
2. the editorial page has both liberal and conservative opinion as well as free-market capitalism.
? are you saying that free market capitalism is a part of conservativism? i would think so.
but looking at many of the posts on this forum, many freepers speak of “capitalism” and mean anti-globalism, anti-nafta etc., like pat buchanan and the george soros left.
these freepers are more populist, than conservative.
i am free market and libertarian.
the united states benefits more from globalism than it doesn’t.
the united states benefits more from globalism than it doesn’t.
The U.S. on average? Yes.
Those with mid- or low-level skill sets? Absolutely not.
And the majority of voting American sheep.
Why do I bother defending them...
Free markets implies no Gov’t. Aka, libertarian views.
However, we are witnessing ‘Conservative’ free-markets, aka Fed intervention. Free Markets come with risks, Conservatives believe we need a Fed to nanny the Markets and keep everything safe. For the good of the people and all. Because they can't take care of themselves.
right.
so, we agree.
those that get pinched, bitch.
the question is, why do they have mid- or low- skill sets?
and, is that our fault?
education is available. here in kaleefornya classes at the 109 community colleges are $20.00/ hour.
when a herd of thoroughbred horse are attacked by wolves, the circle up, heads in and kick outward at their attackers.
We conservatives, though, are like a herd of mules who when they are attacked by wolves, circle up, heads out, and kick kick each other.
or have you noticed??
Feedback? What can you say? If the people of this country don’t take the time to take this country back, it will go the way of Europe. People of today don’t believe this could ever happen. They won’t stand up and fight for themselves. Look at the Wars in Japan and Germany. Our country beat the two best militarys in the world. In todays world, in the Middle East, we can’t even defeat a bunch of sand rats because we, as a country, don’t have the will or the guts. We worry about loosing 4000 of our people in 5 years. We lost 50,000 in one day in Gettysburgh, about 17,000 in one week in Iwo Jima and the list goes on. Our schools turn our boys into little girls and the parents are too busy to notice or do anything about it. What will happen? We will follow the way of Europe and become the North American Union.
there has to be some regulation, the question is how much.
rush limbaugh argued for no intervention in the sub-prime mess a couple months ago.
on the other hand, if bear stearns went down, causing a domino effect and economic chaos....somebody had better do something.
i’m not an economics professional and not qualified to comment.
The author mistakenly labels McRat a Conservative. I’d be proud to stand in any foxhole with a Conservative. Conservatives are hunkering down for the long war. Screw McLame, Euro-trash, and the Rats. While they are busy destroying themselves ... make your time.
I don’t know what to think of the two Communists and the one pseudo-communist we have to choose between. We should br retargeting some nukes to Europe as most countries are siding with evil. Again. How history seems to repeat and we were not the BG’s except in the eyes of the democrats.
I know, he also said Bear Stearns should not fail. We all pick our conservative ideas at different times.
We have mid and low-level skill sets because when those folks entered the workforce, those skill sets were in demand. But times change and those folks can’t compete salary-wise with China and India.
I seriously question the ability to re-train for high level skill sets. There are precious few investment banker slots. There are even less positions for product design.
I have a tendency to agree. I was in product design. It’s different today. They design product to be thrown away. They design software to be obsolete. They import our food from those that would kill us. Today, it’s all about the almighty dollar without regard to what it will do to this country in the future. We would rather import product, and put our own companies out of business. How many times have you gone to Walmart and only bought American made products? How many items do you have in your home that are imported from China?
What new jobs (besides government jobs) are being created to take the place of the jobs that are lost to overseas workers soley due to salary?
And why do guys like Bill Gates harp on 'Americans aren't skilled enough' to justify bringing in more foreign IT workers but he is pumping lots of cash into the educational system in India?
A lot of the stuff made in China is designed in the U.S. Take licensed products, for instance. A Disney product is designed in the U.S. It is also, I’d add, contracted and negotiated by U.S. companies and by people with high-level skill sets in law, international trade, etc.
Another example is the iPod — one of the most successful products on the planet. Made by an American company — it was designed by a Brit, built in China, and programmed by a mish-mash of international programmers. And yes, it’s seen as an “American product.”
I deal with H1-B and outsourced IT people every day. I haven't met one I haven't genuinely liked, nice people and hard workers for the most part. The problem is cultural and communication and also most of the knowledge they have comes from Americans who trained and taught them - but there is a lot lost in the transition and I truly believe that long term, more money is spent. Short term, the lower salaries look great on the books - but wait til disaster strikes - they call in the Americans (my experience 100% of the time).
...lower salary is the only reason we lose those jobs.
“Aside from that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?”
Most of them are too busy facilitating the Left’s takeover in this country to have time or energy left over to be critical about what’s going on in Europe.
They care more about their own cash flows and reputations to risk making a peep.
Hey, Euroweenies: we’re not coming this time.
We saved you from Nazism, Fascism, and Communism.
We know that if we were invaded, you wouldn’t lift a finger to help us.
So save yourselves, or learn to love the jackboot on your neck.
Many freepers including myself are staunchly pro-free markets (what we are against and goes unspoken on “our side” is that those in power-Allies of the WSJ) are NOT Conservative they’re more corporatist than conservative. They’d do what is necessary to ensure their bottom line, they’re not really interested in the free-market which would bring posperity to the masses (as proven by Friedman, Smith, the Austrian School, Anti-Keynsians, micro-economics, etc...).
I am against Wall-Street 1) Getting ANY public money, taxes-handouts, corporate welfare, self-serving regulations that stifle competition, any other benefits that come from Government largess and lobbying.
IF they did believe in it, we wouldn’t find OURSELVES in the position we are in America today.
THERE WOULD BE TRUE PROSPERITY FOR ALL (Well almost all)!
Repeal the Fed is step #1.
Sorry - it just burns my arse when I hear stories about how Americans can't compete with foreign workers --- sounds like Americans are stupid or lazy when in fact it's only all about the $$$. The Chinese who make iPods are paid about $50 per month - working enforced 15 hour days and then having to pay room and board out of their salary. I can't and don't want to 'compete' for that!
Tell you the truth, I wish the iPods were made here and cost more - that way, they would be special enough that every 12 year old wouldn't have one. Our kids have way too much 'stuff' and really don't appreciate it at all.
Virtually all sources are Hard Left:
From Europe - Reuters, BBC, Agence France Presse. Even Euro “business” publications, like “The Economist” and “Financial Times” are relentlessly left of center and anti-American.
In America - the NYTimes is the leading source of Euro news.
Foreign based English language publications - the “International Herald Tribune” is the leader, and it is owned by the NYTimes.
The only Conservative hard news counterweight to Mark Steyn’s usual humor would be the work of John O'Sullivan.
O'Sullivan was a legendary editor at National Review, and he was also one of the very first writers to ring the bell in the 1980’s on the cultural destruction caused by mass immigration in Europe and the USA.
To some extent I think American Conservatives can be forgiven for their lack of interest in Europe.
Among other things, I am currently worried about:
The Iraq War, the pending disintegration of Social Security and Medicare, 20 million illegal aliens, $100 oil, nuclear terrorism, and, worst of all, the GOP has chosen a 71 year old Leftist to defend Conservatism against Obama, Clinton, and the Democrats.
Companies only exist for the purpose of making money. They don’t exist as charities or to support American families or to give folks a place to go in the morning. This is a simple concept, yet people don’t seem to really grasp it.
p.s.
For the record, we do make a lot of things here. American artisans are flourishing. I have a friend who works for a firm that makes high end furniture and they can’t keep up with demand. Same is true for those folks making high end jewelry, clothing, etc.
The thing is, when you start talking about products that cost six and seven figures, they are largely invisible to most people.
We have our own mess to deal with and Conservatives are very vocal about it. It's sad when the Republican Party even ignores Conservatives. Conservatism is never the "easy" choice, and most in this country want just that, the easy choice.
The Wall Street JOurnal staff are normal liberal reporters. As with the rest of the industry, they move left.
Globalism isn't the free market and is not conservative.
Think about this: the average IQ in the USA is 100. That means that roughly 1/2 the population have IQ's below 100. These people might be able to perseve and graduate from community college, or they might not. Even if they do it is unlikely that they will have real skills that earn them higher wages as a result. More likely they will have a degree in "African American Studies" or some other basket-weaving offshoot.
On the other hand in the 1950s such a person could get a decent job working at a steel mill.
perseve = persevere, sorry for typo.
Nope. I'd call them leftist.
A "liberal" isn't dogmatic.
Yes!
The editorial pages have been consistently conservative, but for about the past 10 years or so the the choices for news articles in the main portion of the paper have leaned decidedly liberal/Marxist.
My suggestion for the Wall Street Journal:
STOP hiring journalism majors! Hire bright young people with degrees in something useful and practical, and train them to be journalists while working on the job.
Our schools turn our boys into little girls and the parents are too busy to notice or do anything about it. What will happen? We will follow the way of Europe and become the North American Union.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Marxism is our nation’s MOST serious enemy!
Government K-12 SCHOOLS are their most important weapon!
And,,,,What do conservatives DO about it? NOTHING!!!
Conservatives send their kids to K-12 indoctrination camps. They vote for increased taxes for their child’s indoctrination camps. ( Hey! Their child’s school is “different” and one of the “good” ones.)
Their kids arrive at their Marxist college completely unprepared to defend their faith, and have little understanding of the principles of freedom, our Constitution, or philosophy of Western Civilization. Their kids are mowed down by their Marxist college professors.
Then to add insult to injury, conservatives GIVE MONEY to **MARXIST** colleges and universities!
Talk about STUPID! ( I am disgusted!)
Conservatives are busy hammering nails into the coffin of freedom!
the discussion above was about apples; your comments are about oranges.
concerning oranges: people with college degrees should have developed the ability to educate themselves.
for example, a computer programmer needs not new training to move into a parallel field.
back to the apples argument: i’ve met non-college men that had no education who purchased a dozen or two computer books on some software that they were interested in, and they trained themselves. they went out and sold some professional on their abilities and moved up in life.
The people of Old Europe have been committing suicide with their votes for decades. They want socialist liberalism and they got it. Now the place should just hurry up and die.
that’s true.
but, unnoticed by much of today’s media, the boomer generation of plumbers, electricians, tool and die makers, etc are retiring.
the opportunities for those not qualified or interested in college are great. these are high-paying jobs.
there was an article in the wsj several months of ago about a company owner in pennsylvania
who was begging for skilled mechinists. he was importing labor from europe.
Slow down there, pilgrim. Europe can wait while we decide which leftist we're going to elect over here.
you’re talking about pat buchanan “conservatives.”
not for me.
Did you even read the article? Has anyone?
I didn’t realise that bureacratic managed trade and a destruction of cultures was any form of conservative.
Doesn't matter what your skills are in IT or how you got them.
If someone can do even a part of your job and they are capable of working for very low wages (like they pay in India/China/Mexico/etc), you are going to lose your job sooner or later to them.
Absolutely. We aren't that far behind old Europe. The Democrats are tenacious about destroying traditional American families and traditional American culture, and now I see another thread about Republicans coming out in support of the biggest socialist of them all, Barack Hussein Obama. But what can you do? America was a grand experiment that succeeded for over 200 years. That's not bad, but nothing lasts forever.
you live in a depressing world.
you must have blinders on.
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