Posted on 04/14/2008 8:39:31 AM PDT by awake-n-angry
BAGHDAD - Iraq's government moved Sunday to restore discipline within the ranks of the security forces, sacking more than 1,300 soldiers and policemen who deserted during recent fighting against Shiite militias in Basra.
At the same time, Iraq's Cabinet ratcheted up the pressure on anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr by approving draft legislation barring political parties with militias from participating in upcoming provincial elections.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
The Iraqi government is not standing up, has little incentive to unite the nation and we are stuck in the middle. The point of previous potings is that I do not feel that what we have seen so far is worthy of our troops sacrifice. We seem to have no sincere partner in democratization of Iraq as the government is composed of selfish little warlords who reign over feifdoms that see us as patsys to shed blood while they concetrate and weild power over a divided nation.
The Iraq Gov't can prove me wrong by outlawing these private ,ilitias but that will never happen.
Excellent, courageous and proper; hat’s off to the Iraqi gov.
Breaking News???
If they follow through with legislation to ban private militias I can agree with you.
And if 1,300 LOYAL Iraqis stand up to replace these traitors and spies I will agree with you and applaud the Iraqis but until that time this is an indicator of political insecurity that none of our military might can fix. We have thated that our military is there to give the IRaqis a chance to build a stable government. That assertion is based on the premise that there are Iraqis who wante a stable, united Iraq. This seems to be a tiny minority if they exist at all.
What facts would matter to you anyway? You’re already ignoring the fact that Basra was cleaned out almost singlehandedly by Iraqi forces. The U.S. provided some air support, but beyond that the boots kicking in the doors were Iraqi.
Your characterization of the Iraqi government is simply wildly inaccurate. Far from being divided, Iraq is coming together as never before. You just have no idea what you’re talking about.
If they follow through with legislation to ban private militias I can agree with you.
And if 1,300 LOYAL Iraqis stand up to replace these traitors and spies I will agree with you and applaud the Iraqis but until that time, this is an indicator of political insecurity that none of our military might can fix. We have stated that our military is there to give the IRaqis a chance to build a stable government. That assertion is based on the premise that there are Iraqis who wante a stable, united Iraq. This seems to be a tiny minority if they exist at all.
1300 is what percentage of the Iraqi police and military?
There’s something on the order of 300,000 Iraqis that have put on the uniform of their country. Dismissing 1,500 deserters is hardly worthy of notice.
“Coming together as never before...”
_________
We’ve heard that for years and years. Now removal of US troops and replacement by Iraqis is being stalled by the Sec. of Defense. There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Basra uprising was ended when a peace proposal with al Sadr, negotiated by the Iranians (where al SAdr is living) was accepted. Al Sadr kept his troops alive to fight another day and missles still fall into the Green ZOne. They have kept there power as have all the other little tin pot militias attached to war lords. Its a mess that some refuse to see.
Quite.
So things are making you nervous, huh? As we approach victory it just becomes harder and harder to deal with, doesn't it. It's OK. We fought the war without your support and we can finish it without you, too.
You have absolutely no idea how long it takes for these things to work out. Why don’t you read up a little on our history first before you pass judgement, eh? In fact the progress we and the Iraqi’s have made in such a short time is HISTORIC, its just that many are to historically ignorant to know better.
Sorry- I ran a search under “1,300” and “Dismissed” but got nothing relevant.
Not quite so many as he had before.
You are making my point for me. I know that WE are capable of progress. WE knocked out Saddam’s military in a matter of weeks and flooded the country with troops in record time. WE are fighting and dying with great bravery and scarifice. WE, however are alone as the Iraqis are not standing up. Too many of them are in for themselves in the short term and not ready to sacrifice for a long lasting, stable democracy.
Ok, you’re not answering my post #7 why?
“1300 is what percentage of the Iraqi police and military?”
I’ve heard reference that the desertion rate is lower than ours in WWI, but I don’t know how that was arrived at.
What is surprising that Maliki would dare attempt this operation now with the green and half trained local14th Division knowing the desertion risk.
Wretchard of The Belmont Club http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2008/04/disaggregation.html notes that that the Iraqi Army was able to quickly reinforce it to take the critical Basra ports that fund the Madi Army, also that “while it is probably true that the Iraqi Army has a long to way to go to reach the desired standard it would have been far more worrisome if no one had been “disaggregated”; Basra had been left largely unsecured and reinforcements were still cooling their heels hundreds of miles away”
The dismissals are a good thing. They are a sign of confidence that the Iraqi Army is politically strong enough to project its power on the South and to uphold loyalty standards there.
The danger of many deserters flipping is substantial, but the Maliki government believes it can survive it and does not need to compromise in order to hold onto them. This is very good news, with many sucked in by the Old Media reports that it’s bad new.
1300 potential DNC volunteers.
Because he/she can’t back up the earlier claim of “40% attrition rate”
At least it's a step in the right direction.
you will always be accused of having no credibiity here on FR without providing a link. Get used to it if you plan to stick around.
Are the 1300 moving to Canada?
The Basra uprising was “ended” when one side stopped fighting, and the other side took over the city.
And yes, in a war, if you are smart enough to surrender, you DO get to live. And often that means your troops do get to fight and die another day, if they were not captured before the surrender.
Now, these deserters/rejects would naturally want to have employment, so they would want to join up with the militia in past conflicts. This time, though, does Sadr have the $$$ and organization to provide for these 1300 dingbats?
If the Iraqi Army has the org and cash, then what was it OBL said, "People will naturally choose the strong horse?"
The problem with the army and police is that the people are not being vetted very well. When you have over 1000 people who abandon their positions or go to fight for the enemy, you have a huge problem. Desertion should be a capitol offense.
It would not have been my choice to ask thousands of America's best to endure injury, maiming, and death in the first place. But there is nothing to be gained by pursuing this point. The strategic interests of America are now best served by endowing Iraqis with the capability of standing on their own - ideally long enough to give Iraqis a shot at something resembling western civilization (with at least a few trappings of liberty), but, minimally, long enough for America to get out and wash its hands. While military victory was achieved long ago, we have some distance to go on the former point.
Not to paint myself as an optimist, but I hope the proponents of Wilsonianism have learned a valuable lesson about throw-back cultures, third-world democracy, and tribalism. Again.
One trader is enough to bring down an operation. 1,300 represents 40% of the operation in Basra that Maliki undertook in opposition to American recommendations. Small percentage of the overall but a large percentage of the force that went into Basra.
What a whiner, go back to sleep.
1300 new terrorists with military training and knowledge of Iraqi Army tactics.
“....anti-American Shiite cleric...”
Does that line really mean anything anymore? Or should I say, does it have the propagandizing affect the AP thinks it does?
” The point of previous potings is...”
To spread defeatism with ficticous claims....
You’ve already demonstrated that you are a worthless troll who is unwilling to support your ficticous claims that you use to denigrate our efforts in Iraq.
True...with the rate of desertion seen for this group, it means that country-wide, they have weeded out only a tiny portion of the disloyal troops and police.
You sir are an idiot and an ass. I am not calling you names, rather I am identifying you as having satisfied the objective definition of both “ass” and idiot. If a person is driving down the road and sees a tree and says, “tree” then that person is not calling the object a tree, he is simply identifying a tree. In that line, I identify you as an ass and an idiot.
We have won the war in Iraq. We defeated the Iraqi military hands down. We wiped the floor with Saddam in record time and are all to proud of our military from the highest ranking officer to every buck private. Kudos, blessings and thanks upon each and every one. Condolences to those who have lost loved ones and compassion for those who have returned injured.
The complaint is not at all with any of OUR efforts. WE have performed professionally, and with integrity. WE have practically no allies in Iraq who share our interests. If you want to pretend that conditions are different, you are free to do so, but daily and for years the facts have worked against your rose-colored beliefs.
I agree with your sentiments. And to boot, they found that CBS reporter today. A great morale booster for the ISF.
Hello and welcome to FR.
Your short stay here combined with un-attributed posts is what draws the ire of FReepers.
This thread you started would be a HUGE hit over in DUmmieland.
You seem familiar some how. What’s your DU name?
I take this mass firing to be a good sign. I also like what I see as it applies to Sadr’s militia, and that it may be asked to stand down.
If the later does take place, I certainly don’t share your negative outlook.
sacking more than 1,300 soldiers and policemen who deserted during recent fighting against Shiite militias in Basra
“You sir are an idiot and an ass.”
You have yet to support your previous claims. You had claimed that the attrition rate was 40%. When asked for a source, you cited the embassy’s web site. I challenged your claim, then you changed your source to MSM links, none of which supported your claims. You had also asserted that Maliki went against U.S. suggestions. You have not supported this claim either. You are disingenuous. Now you run around claiming we have no allies in Iraq. Absurd statements like this showered with false claims is your standard behavior.
General Petraeus stated during his recent Senate testimony that the Iraqis are taking 3 to 4 times the casualties than our troops.
Not standing up? Many of them are.
Peace proposal? Where did you come up with that fiction?
It's called a Hudna, an ancient Arab tactic invoked by the losing side to prevent annihilation, and to buy time to regroup and rearm. The effective military response should be o say "no thanks" and keep killing the enemy until they surrender. for some reason, this quaint custom still holds sway there (and, I think I know why). Nonetheless, Mookie called the Hudna because he was having his ass handed to him.
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I notice that you haven’t been on this board that long... perhaps you would feel more comfortable with the du-mmies?
You just make that up, didn't you.
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