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1,300 Iraqi troops, police dismissed
Yahoo-AP ^ | April 14, 2008 | Slobodan Lekic

Posted on 04/14/2008 8:39:31 AM PDT by awake-n-angry

BAGHDAD - Iraq's government moved Sunday to restore discipline within the ranks of the security forces, sacking more than 1,300 soldiers and policemen who deserted during recent fighting against Shiite militias in Basra.

At the same time, Iraq's Cabinet ratcheted up the pressure on anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr by approving draft legislation barring political parties with militias from participating in upcoming provincial elections.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: alsadr; basra; inbeforethezot; iraq; iraqiarmy; iraqipolice; maliki; zot; zotworthy
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On another thread, I was recently accused of having no credibility because I stated the facts issued in the first two paragraphs of this story but because I received the information on the radio, I could not offer a link.

The Iraqi government is not standing up, has little incentive to unite the nation and we are stuck in the middle. The point of previous potings is that I do not feel that what we have seen so far is worthy of our troops sacrifice. We seem to have no sincere partner in democratization of Iraq as the government is composed of selfish little warlords who reign over feifdoms that see us as patsys to shed blood while they concetrate and weild power over a divided nation.

The Iraq Gov't can prove me wrong by outlawing these private ,ilitias but that will never happen.

1 posted on 04/14/2008 8:39:32 AM PDT by awake-n-angry
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To: awake-n-angry

Excellent, courageous and proper; hat’s off to the Iraqi gov.


2 posted on 04/14/2008 8:49:37 AM PDT by veracious
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To: awake-n-angry

Breaking News???


3 posted on 04/14/2008 8:49:37 AM PDT by misterrob (Obama-Does America Need Another Jimmy Carter?)
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To: veracious

If they follow through with legislation to ban private militias I can agree with you.

And if 1,300 LOYAL Iraqis stand up to replace these traitors and spies I will agree with you and applaud the Iraqis but until that time this is an indicator of political insecurity that none of our military might can fix. We have thated that our military is there to give the IRaqis a chance to build a stable government. That assertion is based on the premise that there are Iraqis who wante a stable, united Iraq. This seems to be a tiny minority if they exist at all.


4 posted on 04/14/2008 8:53:50 AM PDT by awake-n-angry
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To: awake-n-angry

What facts would matter to you anyway? You’re already ignoring the fact that Basra was cleaned out almost singlehandedly by Iraqi forces. The U.S. provided some air support, but beyond that the boots kicking in the doors were Iraqi.

Your characterization of the Iraqi government is simply wildly inaccurate. Far from being divided, Iraq is coming together as never before. You just have no idea what you’re talking about.


5 posted on 04/14/2008 8:54:28 AM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: veracious

If they follow through with legislation to ban private militias I can agree with you.

And if 1,300 LOYAL Iraqis stand up to replace these traitors and spies I will agree with you and applaud the Iraqis but until that time, this is an indicator of political insecurity that none of our military might can fix. We have stated that our military is there to give the IRaqis a chance to build a stable government. That assertion is based on the premise that there are Iraqis who wante a stable, united Iraq. This seems to be a tiny minority if they exist at all.


6 posted on 04/14/2008 8:54:55 AM PDT by awake-n-angry
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To: awake-n-angry
That assertion is based on the premise that there are Iraqis who wante a stable, united Iraq. This seems to be a tiny minority if they exist at all.

1300 is what percentage of the Iraqi police and military?

7 posted on 04/14/2008 8:55:21 AM PDT by tsmith130
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To: awake-n-angry

There’s something on the order of 300,000 Iraqis that have put on the uniform of their country. Dismissing 1,500 deserters is hardly worthy of notice.


8 posted on 04/14/2008 8:56:16 AM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: Ramius

“Coming together as never before...”

_________

We’ve heard that for years and years. Now removal of US troops and replacement by Iraqis is being stalled by the Sec. of Defense. There are none so blind as those who will not see.


9 posted on 04/14/2008 8:56:33 AM PDT by awake-n-angry
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To: misterrob

Yeah, I read about this yesterday.....

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2000878/posts


10 posted on 04/14/2008 8:59:10 AM PDT by ButThreeLeftsDo
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To: Ramius

Basra uprising was ended when a peace proposal with al Sadr, negotiated by the Iranians (where al SAdr is living) was accepted. Al Sadr kept his troops alive to fight another day and missles still fall into the Green ZOne. They have kept there power as have all the other little tin pot militias attached to war lords. Its a mess that some refuse to see.


11 posted on 04/14/2008 9:01:00 AM PDT by awake-n-angry
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To: awake-n-angry
There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Quite.

So things are making you nervous, huh? As we approach victory it just becomes harder and harder to deal with, doesn't it. It's OK. We fought the war without your support and we can finish it without you, too.

12 posted on 04/14/2008 9:01:23 AM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: awake-n-angry

You have absolutely no idea how long it takes for these things to work out. Why don’t you read up a little on our history first before you pass judgement, eh? In fact the progress we and the Iraqi’s have made in such a short time is HISTORIC, its just that many are to historically ignorant to know better.


13 posted on 04/14/2008 9:01:55 AM PDT by statered ("And you know what I mean.")
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To: ButThreeLeftsDo

Sorry- I ran a search under “1,300” and “Dismissed” but got nothing relevant.


14 posted on 04/14/2008 9:02:04 AM PDT by awake-n-angry
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To: awake-n-angry
Al Sadr kept his troops alive to fight another day...

Not quite so many as he had before.

15 posted on 04/14/2008 9:03:57 AM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: statered

You are making my point for me. I know that WE are capable of progress. WE knocked out Saddam’s military in a matter of weeks and flooded the country with troops in record time. WE are fighting and dying with great bravery and scarifice. WE, however are alone as the Iraqis are not standing up. Too many of them are in for themselves in the short term and not ready to sacrifice for a long lasting, stable democracy.


16 posted on 04/14/2008 9:04:30 AM PDT by awake-n-angry
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To: awake-n-angry

Ok, you’re not answering my post #7 why?


17 posted on 04/14/2008 9:12:44 AM PDT by tsmith130
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To: tsmith130

“1300 is what percentage of the Iraqi police and military?”

I’ve heard reference that the desertion rate is lower than ours in WWI, but I don’t know how that was arrived at.


18 posted on 04/14/2008 9:13:35 AM PDT by elfman2 ("As goes Fallujah, so goes Central Iraq and so goes the entire country" -Col Coleman, USMC ,4/2004)
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To: awake-n-angry

What is surprising that Maliki would dare attempt this operation now with the green and half trained local14th Division knowing the desertion risk.

Wretchard of The Belmont Club http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2008/04/disaggregation.html notes that that the Iraqi Army was able to quickly reinforce it to take the critical Basra ports that fund the Madi Army, also that “while it is probably true that the Iraqi Army has a long to way to go to reach the desired standard it would have been far more worrisome if no one had been “disaggregated”; Basra had been left largely unsecured and reinforcements were still cooling their heels hundreds of miles away”

The dismissals are a good thing. They are a sign of confidence that the Iraqi Army is politically strong enough to project its power on the South and to uphold loyalty standards there.

The danger of many deserters flipping is substantial, but the Maliki government believes it can survive it and does not need to compromise in order to hold onto them. This is very good news, with many sucked in by the Old Media reports that it’s bad new.


19 posted on 04/14/2008 9:18:56 AM PDT by elfman2 ("As goes Fallujah, so goes Central Iraq and so goes the entire country" -Col Coleman, USMC ,4/2004)
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To: awake-n-angry

1300 potential DNC volunteers.


20 posted on 04/14/2008 9:28:51 AM PDT by DogBarkTree (The correct word isn't "immigrant" when what they are doing is "invading".)
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To: tsmith130

Because he/she can’t back up the earlier claim of “40% attrition rate”


21 posted on 04/14/2008 9:32:13 AM PDT by 1035rep
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To: awake-n-angry
"At the same time, Iraq's Cabinet ratcheted up the pressure on anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr by approving draft legislation barring political parties with militias from participating in upcoming provincial elections."

At least it's a step in the right direction.

22 posted on 04/14/2008 9:38:19 AM PDT by cake_crumb (Boycott Genocide. Boycott the Olympics.)
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To: awake-n-angry

you will always be accused of having no credibiity here on FR without providing a link. Get used to it if you plan to stick around.


23 posted on 04/14/2008 9:38:54 AM PDT by RDTF (my worst nightmare is being on jury duty sequestered with 11 liberals)
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To: awake-n-angry
We seem to have no sincere partner in democratization of Iraq America as the government is composed of selfish little warlords who reign over feifdoms that see us (voters) as patsys to shed blood money in taxes while they concetrate and weild power over a divided nation.
24 posted on 04/14/2008 9:53:50 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: awake-n-angry

Are the 1300 moving to Canada?


25 posted on 04/14/2008 9:55:27 AM PDT by MarkeyD (Just another country bumpkin looking forward to Fred!)
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To: awake-n-angry

The Basra uprising was “ended” when one side stopped fighting, and the other side took over the city.

And yes, in a war, if you are smart enough to surrender, you DO get to live. And often that means your troops do get to fight and die another day, if they were not captured before the surrender.


26 posted on 04/14/2008 10:00:39 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: elfman2; Ramius; awake-n-angry
The dismissals are a good thing. They are a sign of confidence that the Iraqi Army is politically strong enough to project its power on the South and to uphold loyalty standards there.

Now, these deserters/rejects would naturally want to have employment, so they would want to join up with the militia in past conflicts. This time, though, does Sadr have the $$$ and organization to provide for these 1300 dingbats?

If the Iraqi Army has the org and cash, then what was it OBL said, "People will naturally choose the strong horse?"

27 posted on 04/14/2008 10:01:21 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: awake-n-angry
The Iraqi's are standing up. They are making political progress. Just not fast enough for you. I am making the argument that if you put it in historical context they are doing amazingly well. When you put it in the fast food, gratification on demand modern American context it is way too slow. I don't think you are being reasonable.
28 posted on 04/14/2008 10:05:10 AM PDT by statered ("And you know what I mean.")
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To: awake-n-angry

The problem with the army and police is that the people are not being vetted very well. When you have over 1000 people who abandon their positions or go to fight for the enemy, you have a huge problem. Desertion should be a capitol offense.


29 posted on 04/14/2008 10:24:17 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: awake-n-angry
American troops could start coming home under only two scenarios: things get very bad, or things get very good. I say we cheer for the latter.

It would not have been my choice to ask thousands of America's best to endure injury, maiming, and death in the first place. But there is nothing to be gained by pursuing this point. The strategic interests of America are now best served by endowing Iraqis with the capability of standing on their own - ideally long enough to give Iraqis a shot at something resembling western civilization (with at least a few trappings of liberty), but, minimally, long enough for America to get out and wash its hands. While military victory was achieved long ago, we have some distance to go on the former point.

Not to paint myself as an optimist, but I hope the proponents of Wilsonianism have learned a valuable lesson about throw-back cultures, third-world democracy, and tribalism. Again.

30 posted on 04/14/2008 10:32:10 AM PDT by M203M4 (True Universal Suffrage: Pets of dead illegal-immigrant felons voting Democrat (twice))
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To: tsmith130

One trader is enough to bring down an operation. 1,300 represents 40% of the operation in Basra that Maliki undertook in opposition to American recommendations. Small percentage of the overall but a large percentage of the force that went into Basra.


31 posted on 04/14/2008 11:03:49 AM PDT by awake-n-angry
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To: awake-n-angry
The Iraqi government is not standing up, has little incentive to unite the nation and we are stuck in the middle.

What a whiner, go back to sleep.

32 posted on 04/14/2008 11:26:42 AM PDT by ARE SOLE (Agents Ramos and Campean are in prison at this very moment.. (A "Concerned Citizen".)
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To: veracious

hat’s off to the Iraqi gov.

I second that! I wish I could say that about our own government....
33 posted on 04/14/2008 11:32:53 AM PDT by G8 Diplomat
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To: awake-n-angry

1300 new terrorists with military training and knowledge of Iraqi Army tactics.


34 posted on 04/14/2008 1:04:53 PM PDT by Rebelbase (Carbon is the fourth most abundant element on the planet.)
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To: awake-n-angry

“....anti-American Shiite cleric...”

Does that line really mean anything anymore? Or should I say, does it have the propagandizing affect the AP thinks it does?


35 posted on 04/14/2008 1:48:49 PM PDT by demshateGod (the GOP is dead to me)
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To: awake-n-angry

” The point of previous potings is...”

To spread defeatism with ficticous claims....

You’ve already demonstrated that you are a worthless troll who is unwilling to support your ficticous claims that you use to denigrate our efforts in Iraq.


36 posted on 04/14/2008 1:50:44 PM PDT by death2tyrants
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To: Ramius

True...with the rate of desertion seen for this group, it means that country-wide, they have weeded out only a tiny portion of the disloyal troops and police.


37 posted on 04/14/2008 2:27:39 PM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: death2tyrants

You sir are an idiot and an ass. I am not calling you names, rather I am identifying you as having satisfied the objective definition of both “ass” and idiot. If a person is driving down the road and sees a tree and says, “tree” then that person is not calling the object a tree, he is simply identifying a tree. In that line, I identify you as an ass and an idiot.

We have won the war in Iraq. We defeated the Iraqi military hands down. We wiped the floor with Saddam in record time and are all to proud of our military from the highest ranking officer to every buck private. Kudos, blessings and thanks upon each and every one. Condolences to those who have lost loved ones and compassion for those who have returned injured.

The complaint is not at all with any of OUR efforts. WE have performed professionally, and with integrity. WE have practically no allies in Iraq who share our interests. If you want to pretend that conditions are different, you are free to do so, but daily and for years the facts have worked against your rose-colored beliefs.


38 posted on 04/14/2008 2:40:35 PM PDT by awake-n-angry
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To: Ramius

I agree with your sentiments. And to boot, they found that CBS reporter today. A great morale booster for the ISF.


39 posted on 04/14/2008 3:05:18 PM PDT by ChinaThreat (s)
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To: awake-n-angry

Hello and welcome to FR.
Your short stay here combined with un-attributed posts is what draws the ire of FReepers.
This thread you started would be a HUGE hit over in DUmmieland.


40 posted on 04/14/2008 3:15:31 PM PDT by JerseyDvl (If You Support America - Thank a Soldier; If You Support Al-Qaeda - Thank a Democrat!)
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To: awake-n-angry

You seem familiar some how. What’s your DU name?


41 posted on 04/14/2008 3:18:57 PM PDT by Blue State Insurgent (Superdelegates = The Guardian Council)
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To: awake-n-angry

I take this mass firing to be a good sign. I also like what I see as it applies to Sadr’s militia, and that it may be asked to stand down.

If the later does take place, I certainly don’t share your negative outlook.


42 posted on 04/14/2008 3:33:04 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (McCain is rock solid on SCOTUS judicial appointments. He voted for Ginsberg, Kennedy and Souter.)
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sacking more than 1,300 soldiers and policemen who deserted during recent fighting against Shiite militias in Basra

43 posted on 04/14/2008 4:53:48 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_____________________Profile updated Saturday, March 29, 2008)
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To: awake-n-angry

“You sir are an idiot and an ass.”

You have yet to support your previous claims. You had claimed that the attrition rate was 40%. When asked for a source, you cited the embassy’s web site. I challenged your claim, then you changed your source to MSM links, none of which supported your claims. You had also asserted that Maliki went against U.S. suggestions. You have not supported this claim either. You are disingenuous. Now you run around claiming we have no allies in Iraq. Absurd statements like this showered with false claims is your standard behavior.


44 posted on 04/14/2008 5:45:39 PM PDT by death2tyrants
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To: awake-n-angry
WE, however are alone as the Iraqis are not standing up. Too many of them are in for themselves in the short term and not ready to sacrifice for a long lasting, stable democracy.

General Petraeus stated during his recent Senate testimony that the Iraqis are taking 3 to 4 times the casualties than our troops.

Not standing up? Many of them are.

45 posted on 04/14/2008 6:03:24 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: awake-n-angry
Basra uprising was ended when a peace proposal with al Sadr, negotiated by the Iranians (where al SAdr is living) was accepted.

Peace proposal? Where did you come up with that fiction?

It's called a Hudna, an ancient Arab tactic invoked by the losing side to prevent annihilation, and to buy time to regroup and rearm. The effective military response should be o say "no thanks" and keep killing the enemy until they surrender. for some reason, this quaint custom still holds sway there (and, I think I know why). Nonetheless, Mookie called the Hudna because he was having his ass handed to him.

46 posted on 04/14/2008 6:26:07 PM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham ("The land of the Free...Because of the Brave")
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To: awake-n-angry
"Its a mess that some refuse to see"

Why is that? Why would a guy refuse to see something. Not miss or overlook but refuse to see. How come?


47 posted on 04/14/2008 6:41:40 PM PDT by I see my hands (_8(|)
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To: awake-n-angry
"One trader is enough to bring down an operation"

It really takes at least two to trade.


48 posted on 04/14/2008 6:47:47 PM PDT by I see my hands (_8(|)
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To: awake-n-angry

I notice that you haven’t been on this board that long... perhaps you would feel more comfortable with the du-mmies?


49 posted on 04/14/2008 7:34:04 PM PDT by John123 (Fluoride is NOT a neuro-toxin. It is a cavity fighter in spite of NO PEER Reviewed PROOF!)
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To: awake-n-angry
1,300 represents 40% of the operation in Basra that Maliki undertook in opposition to American recommendations.

You just make that up, didn't you.

Link

50 posted on 04/14/2008 8:09:04 PM PDT by FreeReign
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