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Culture shock: Seized polygamous sect kids face tough adjustment (YFZ/fLDS Daily Thread)
Salt Lake Tribune ^
| 04/24/2008 07:32:33 AM MDT
| N/A
Posted on 04/24/2008 7:31:28 AM PDT by MizSterious
Culture shock: Seized polygamous sect kids face tough adjustment
The Associated Press
Article Last Updated: 04/24/2008 07:32:33 AM MDT
Posted: 7:33 AM- SAN ANGELO, Texas - The hundreds of children from a polygamist compound taken into state custody are on their way to group homes, shelters and residences, but experts and lawyers fear their transition may be much harder than it is for other foster children.
The 437 children taken from the compound in West Texas will be plunged into a culture radically different from the community where they and their families shunned the outside world as a hostile, contaminating influence on their godly way of life.
Many of the children have seen little or no television. They have been essentially home-schooled all their lives. Most were raised on garden-grown vegetables and twice-daily prayers with family. They frolic in long dresses and buttoned-up shirts from another century.
(Excerpt) Read more at sltrib.com ...
TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cult; flds; fldsdailythread; hemanmormonhaters; polygamy; sanangelo; yfz
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This is the first of the fLDS/YFZ daily threads--in the future, each one will have links to the past threads. We thought we'd give this format a try in an effort to consolidate the massive amounts of information, currently scattered all over FR.
Just for the sake of orderliness (and to prevent the pulling of threads and/or messages), let's do try to stay on topic and polite.
To: greyfoxx39; Politicalmom
2
posted on
04/24/2008 7:32:16 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(The Republican Party is infected with the RINO-virus)
To: MizSterious
“They are a throwback to the 19th century in how they dress and how they behave.”
That’s a good thing isn’t it?
3
posted on
04/24/2008 7:32:42 AM PDT
by
BenLurkin
To: colorcountry
4
posted on
04/24/2008 7:37:12 AM PDT
by
Virginia Ridgerunner
("We must not forget that there is a war on and our troops are in the thick of it!"--Duncan Hunter)
To: MizSterious
It is always a good thing when the government decides to remove kids from their family so they can be instructed to become worshipers of the state and the all knowing, smiling, big sister. Where is Janette Reno when her help is needed?
5
posted on
04/24/2008 7:37:13 AM PDT
by
Neoliberalnot
((Hallmarks of Liberalism: Ingratitude and Envy))
To: All
Officials say 47 children from polygamist group coming to Waco’s Methodist Children’s Home
Thursday, April 24, 2008
By Emily Ingram
Tribune-Herald staff writer
Officials at Wacos Methodist Childrens Home revealed Wednesday that they will get 47 children from a West Texas polygamist sect within the next 48 hours.
Child Protective Services officials alerted childrens home President and CEO Bobby Gilliam about the move Wednesday, he said during an afternoon press conference.
The announcement came a few hours after Texas authorities said they had finished taking DNA samples from all the children housed at the San Angelo Coliseum since being removed from a polygamist compound more than two weeks ago. Child welfare officials are trying to sort out the complicated family relationships at the ranch compound of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
http://www.wacotrib.com/services/content/news/stories/2008/04/24/04242008wacpolygamist.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=11
6
posted on
04/24/2008 7:37:23 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(The Republican Party is infected with the RINO-virus)
To: BenLurkin
Thats a good thing isnt it?Not necessarily. The 19th century wasn't an Eden.
Few idealizers of the 1850s would voluntarily subject themselves to 1850s standards of medical care.
7
posted on
04/24/2008 7:37:54 AM PDT
by
wideawake
(Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
To: Neoliberalnot
so they can be instructed to become worshipers of the state How does this instruction work? Is there a standard text?
8
posted on
04/24/2008 7:38:53 AM PDT
by
wideawake
(Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
To: wideawake
Few idealizers of the 1850s would voluntarily subject themselves to 1850s standards of medical care. And then there's those "out houses". ;-)
9
posted on
04/24/2008 7:39:07 AM PDT
by
rhombus
To: Neoliberalnot
It is also always a good thing when the government decides to remove kids from their family when the polygamist sect that they belong to routinely abandons its boys and then facilitates rape and forced marriages to dirty old men against the girls.
10
posted on
04/24/2008 7:39:31 AM PDT
by
Virginia Ridgerunner
("We must not forget that there is a war on and our troops are in the thick of it!"--Duncan Hunter)
To: All
3 Local Facilities To Get Polygamist Sect Children
POSTED: 7:52 am CDT April 24, 2008
UPDATED: 8:11 am CDT April 24, 2008
HOUSTON — Three Houston-area facilities will soon be temporary homes for dozens of children removed from the polygamist sect in west Texas, KPRC Local 2 reported Thursday.
Thirty-six children will live at Kidz Harbor in Liverpool, Texas, in Brazoria County.
“I think it’s a place where the kids will feel safe,” Liverpool Police Chief Myles Hopkins said. “They community will also embrace their arrival.”
Up to 16 children could soon temporarily call a Hockley facility home.
There’s an unassuming sign out front that reads “Boys and Girls Country.” The driveway back to the foster care compound is a few miles off Highway 290, surrounded by fields.
“Our first priority is to welcome a child in a warm way,” Executive Director Shirley Wright said.
The staff and volunteers have been getting ready, folding towels, putting backpacks by each empty bed and writing welcoming notes.
“If we know what their favorite food is, we’ll be baking it in the oven,” Wright said.
More at: http://www.click2houston.com/news/15976852/detail.html
11
posted on
04/24/2008 7:40:14 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(The Republican Party is infected with the RINO-virus)
To: All
CASA Volunteers Called On To Help Sect Children
Reported by: Kristina De Leon
Email: KristinaDeLeon@woai.com
Last Update: 8:44 am
Child Advocates of San Antonio, or “CASA”, has gotten word that its services will be needed in the child custody case involving hundreds of children from a West Texas polygamist compound.
Dozens of volunteers, people who stand up for abused children in court, will meet with a child at least once a month.
The volunteers will first go through training on how to handle the children in a way that respects their unique religion.
“Texas CASA, our state affiliate, is really going to be helping and guiding us through this process,” said Janet Ketcham of CASA. “So there will be a protocol for visits we will hopefully understand more about the sect to make sure to, again, respect the children.”
CASA says it needs volunteers now more than ever. If you are interested in becoming one, click here:
More at: http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=75b48fb6-cb59-43d3-900e-b34eca020bd1&rss=68
12
posted on
04/24/2008 7:43:57 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(The Republican Party is infected with the RINO-virus)
To: colorcountry; Pan_Yans Wife; MHGinTN; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; Osage Orange; Greg F; ...
Ping to a NEW Daily Thread on the FLDS
Metmom, a good place to post your links if you like.
Mizsterious, thanks for starting this.
13
posted on
04/24/2008 7:46:06 AM PDT
by
greyfoxx39
(Are there any WOMEN FReepers who agree that the 1st. Amendment OKs sexual slavery?))
To: MizSterious
A methodist church in my area is expecting to get 100 of the children for up to three years. I went to the meeting because they needed people to take training so they can work with these kids. I wanted to help as I have 6 of my own kids and my heart breaks for these children. The first hour was spent converting everyone to the cause the next 2 hours were spent teaching us how to convert these children to this particular churches beliefs. I am sick to my stomach, I do not agree with what has been going on in there in any way. But that meeting was disgusting.
14
posted on
04/24/2008 7:47:12 AM PDT
by
TriGirl
(Lurking for 7 years!!!!!)
To: wideawake
“Few idealizers of the 1850s.....”
The fans of “Little House” and “Dr Quinn” haven’t gotten rid of their washing machines and electricity!
15
posted on
04/24/2008 7:49:28 AM PDT
by
fishtank
(Fenced BORDERS, English LANGUAGE, Patriotic CULTURE: A good plan.)
To: wideawake
Few idealizers of the 1850s would voluntarily subject themselves to 1850s standards of medical care. Who is idealizing 1850s medical care? I think the comment was saying that modest fashion styles from the past may be preferable over the trashy fashions of today.
To: All
Ex-sect member fears ‘scandal’ over Canadian kids
Carolyn Jessop says Canadian children could have been sent to Texas compound without their parents
Daphne Bramham , Vancouver Sun
Published: Thursday, April 24, 2008
It will be “an international scandal from hell” if Texas officials determine that some of the Canadian children taken from the polygamous compound in Texas were taken there without their parents, says a former member of the fundamentalist Mormon group.
And Carolyn Jessop believes that is “a very strong possibility.”
“I suspect that they [the FLDS] had a whole lot of kids there without their parents,” said Jessop, who fled the community in 2003 with her eight children.
Members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints leave the Tom Green County Courthouse following an informational session with lawyers in San Angelo, Texas.
Members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints leave the Tom Green County Courthouse following an informational session with lawyers in San Angelo, Texas.
At 18, she became the fifth wife of Merril Jessop, who is in charge of the Yearning for Zion ranch, from which Texas officials took 437 children earlier this month and put them into protective care.
For several years now, children have been reassigned from one father to another and even one family to another as Warren Jeffs, the prophet of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, grew increasingly tyrannical, Carolyn Jessop said in an interview.
That helps explain why so many of the children are unable or unwilling to tell child protection officials who their parents are. This confusion over identities is the reason a Texas judge ordered DNA tests for all of the children and asked that parents voluntarily provide DNA samples.
Testing began Monday and is expected to continue through the week. Processing the samples will take several more weeks.
Even with the testing, Jessop doubted officials will be able to find many of the fathers because some, if not many, of the men are afraid to be tested themselves. Any voluntary DNA samples could be used later in a criminal trial if the mothers were minors when they were impregnated.
And while some of the mothers have said they will do anything to get their children back, including leave the reclusive, breakaway Mormon sect, Jessop said Texas ought to require psychiatric evaluations.
“I don’t think there is one of them who is stable enough to get their children back. Mind control is classed as a mental illness and a child’s right to safety far exceeds a mother’s rights.”
“The women in this society will never protect their children. . . . They turn them over to the perpetrators.”
Jessop said her own children are still in therapy because of the damage her so-called “sister-wives” did to them. Not all of the women are perpetrators of abuse, some are victims of it and they are “pretty good, decent moms within their reality,” she said.
The FLDS launched an Internet offensive Tuesday. Although the media has been careful to obscure the faces of the children taken from the YFZ ranch, the FLDS has posted dozens of photos and video of them on its website along with a plea for donations to a legal defence fund.
But the Texas raid isn’t the only FLDS trial. The FLDS prophet’s lawyers will be in a Utah court this afternoon fighting for a retrial.
Jeffs was convicted last fall on two counts of being an accomplice to the rape of a 14-year-old girl and was sentenced to two terms of five years to life in prison.
However, the verdict was reached only after a juror was replaced when it was determined she was biased. The woman, a victim of rape at 13, had lied about that when answering a questionnaire given to all potential jurors and in a subsequent in-camera interview with the prosecuting and defence lawyers.
Long article—more at: http://www.canada.com/cityguides/halifax/info/story.html?id=456cc6aa-d32c-474a-aa42-94c5cf3cd6ad&k=61055
17
posted on
04/24/2008 7:50:32 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(The Republican Party is infected with the RINO-virus)
To: wideawake
You will find it in many public schools — a series of texts from the series it takes a village.
18
posted on
04/24/2008 7:51:24 AM PDT
by
Neoliberalnot
((Hallmarks of Liberalism: Ingratitude and Envy))
To: TriGirl
I do not agree with converting the children to another religion either. I am very sorry to hear this is going on.
19
posted on
04/24/2008 7:51:37 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(The Republican Party is infected with the RINO-virus)
To: BenLurkin
Unless you dislike slavery
20
posted on
04/24/2008 7:51:47 AM PDT
by
AppyPappy
(If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
To: MizSterious
These poor children did not even know what to do with crayons and a sheet of paper, nor did many of their mothers. They have been deprived of everything we normally associate with a happy and well rounded childhood, not just television and modern clothes. Even in the 1850s American children had toys and dolls and picture books. I would bet none of these children has read a Dr. Seuss book, a comic strip, classic children’s literature, poetry. They don’t know who Bambi and Snow White are. They are comparable to Wahhabi children beng sent to madrassas where they do nothing but memorize the Koran all day long. We would not tolerate this in America, and we should not tolerate this cult’s treatment of children either.
21
posted on
04/24/2008 7:51:49 AM PDT
by
Dems_R_Losers
(Another non-bitter Pennsylvanian)
To: greyfoxx39
Thanks, it took a few tries. ;)
22
posted on
04/24/2008 7:53:03 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(The Republican Party is infected with the RINO-virus)
To: Virginia Ridgerunner
So the kids and the parents should not have a say in the matter. The State has all the right answers and no one should be concerned with what the kids want? What’s next, post-natal abortion?
23
posted on
04/24/2008 7:53:06 AM PDT
by
Neoliberalnot
((Hallmarks of Liberalism: Ingratitude and Envy))
To: ClearCase_guy
Who is idealizing 1850s medical care? I think the comment was saying that modest fashion styles from the past may be preferable over the trashy fashions of today.””
NO, no, not that. We want our kids to look like the street walkers in hollywood and to have kids out of wedlock so they conform to government wishes.
24
posted on
04/24/2008 7:55:19 AM PDT
by
Neoliberalnot
((Hallmarks of Liberalism: Ingratitude and Envy))
To: MizSterious
You cannot “convert” someone to your religion. I imagine they first have to deprogram the kids from their polygamous belief. Then they have to teach them that God isn’t going to hate them because of the clothes they wear.
25
posted on
04/24/2008 7:55:27 AM PDT
by
AppyPappy
(If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
To: MizSterious
The hundreds of children from a polygamist compound taken into state custody are on their way to group homes, shelters and residences, but experts and lawyers fear their transition may be much harder than it is for other foster children.No doubt, when they don't even know what stuff like crayons are.
Is the judge also allowing them to be homeschooled? Public school would be way too much for them.
TV can be kept off, they can help with yard work and household chores and be given times to pray as they're used to.
It doesn't have to be that traumatic if the foster parents are willing to put the effort in. Compared to many of the kids most foster parents are used to dealing with, these kids ought to be easy.
26
posted on
04/24/2008 7:55:54 AM PDT
by
metmom
(Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
To: Neoliberalnot
The parents gave up their rights when they engaged in criminal behavior. Ask Mike Vick.
27
posted on
04/24/2008 7:57:44 AM PDT
by
AppyPappy
(If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
To: wideawake
There’s a lot to be said for running water and electricity.
They weren’t THAT 19th century at that compound, were they?
I’m sure they’re familiar with modern conveniences. The kids had to have seen cell phones at least.
28
posted on
04/24/2008 7:58:28 AM PDT
by
metmom
(Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
To: All
29
posted on
04/24/2008 7:58:31 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(The Republican Party is infected with the RINO-virus)
To: Dems_R_Losers
These poor children did not even know what to do with crayons and a sheet of paper, nor did many of their mothers. They have been deprived of everything we normally associate with a happy and well rounded childhood, not just television and modern clothes. Even in the 1850s American children had toys and dolls and picture books. I would bet none of these children has read a Dr. Seuss book, a comic strip, classic childrens literature, poetry. They dont know who Bambi and Snow White are. They are comparable to Wahhabi children beng sent to madrassas where they do nothing but memorize the Koran all day long. We would not tolerate this in America, and we should not tolerate this cults treatment of children either.
I noticed on a video of the compound there was no sign of a swing set, a merry-go-round, or any other indication that the children were provided with things to play on. I read that at one of the shelters, when asked what the children did for fun, they replied: "Feed the chickens, and "clean". They asked for cleaning supplies.
30
posted on
04/24/2008 7:59:48 AM PDT
by
greyfoxx39
(Are there any WOMEN FReepers who agree that the 1st. Amendment OKs sexual slavery?))
To: AppyPappy
The parents gave up their rights when they engaged in criminal behavior. When was the trial? So every adult at the ranch was convicted?
31
posted on
04/24/2008 8:00:22 AM PDT
by
beltfed308
(Heller: The defining moment of our Republic)
To: Neoliberalnot
First, you have to find out who the kids’ parents ARE. Since not very many of them are stepping up to be tested, it looks like the state of Texas has the final say-so. Any parent not willing to do what’s needed to claim their own children doesn’t deserve to have any say over them.
32
posted on
04/24/2008 8:00:52 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(The Republican Party is infected with the RINO-virus)
To: AppyPappy
I think you have the right idea, but that was not the intention of this group.
33
posted on
04/24/2008 8:03:44 AM PDT
by
TriGirl
(Lurking for 7 years!!!!!)
To: MizSterious; TriGirl
I agree with both of you. Thats just not right. If the churches are planning to do that then the judge shouldn’t have sent them there. They have gone through enough & I would say ought to be left alone about religion at this time. I know I wouldn’t care to have a stranger try to tell me that their church is what I ought to believe in. It will just enforce what the FLDS has already told the children about strangers IMO.
34
posted on
04/24/2008 8:05:15 AM PDT
by
pandoraou812
(Out, damned spot............OUT ..)
To: beltfed308
If a sniper opens up on a crowd, you guys would be complaining that the police can’t stop him from shooting because he hasn’t been convicted yet.
35
posted on
04/24/2008 8:05:39 AM PDT
by
AppyPappy
(If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
To: TriGirl
They are going to convert them to Methodism?
36
posted on
04/24/2008 8:06:18 AM PDT
by
AppyPappy
(If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
To: Neoliberalnot
So the kids and the parents should not have a say in the matter. No, not when they're brainwashed into that evil culture from birth, going back four or five generations.
And also, keep in mind that the authorities may not necessarily be dealing with many of these kids actual parents, since an apparent FLDS practice is to separate babies from their real mothers early on and place them to be raised in other households, thereby keeping the perpetual shell game going.
37
posted on
04/24/2008 8:06:56 AM PDT
by
Virginia Ridgerunner
("We must not forget that there is a war on and our troops are in the thick of it!"--Duncan Hunter)
To: Dems_R_Losers
I would bet none of these children has read a Dr. Seuss book, a comic strip, classic childrens literature, poetry. They dont know who Bambi and Snow White are.I think that would be way beyond them at this point. Right now, it seems that they just need to learn to unwind and play. Just having toys like swings, bikes, balls, dolls, and picture books like Golden Books would be enough to keep them busy for a long time.
It'll probably be years before they can understand or appreciate what we think of as normal childhood stuff like you mentioned.
38
posted on
04/24/2008 8:07:38 AM PDT
by
metmom
(Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
To: MizSterious
Maybe some of the Amish here in PA could serve as foster parents.
To: Neoliberalnot
The kids parents?
You realize they don’t know who their parents are and their parents aren’t really sure what kid is theirs after a certain age. And then there are the kids trucked in from Canada.
No toys, games, stories, bonding time with parents, treats, celebrations, holidays.... nothing normal at all.
It’s not “The Walton’s” that we’re talking about. We’re talking about folks who kick boys out when they get pubic hair and marry of the girls without their sayso, so they can get preggers asap after their first period.
40
posted on
04/24/2008 8:09:26 AM PDT
by
najida
(On FR- Everyman is Brad Pitt, Everywoman is Aunt Bea)
To: greyfoxx39
41
posted on
04/24/2008 8:09:29 AM PDT
by
Godzilla
(How do I set a laser printer to stun?)
To: pandoraou812; MizSterious; TriGirl
I know I wouldnt care to have a stranger try to tell me that their church is what I ought to believe in. It will just enforce what the FLDS has already told the children about strangers IMO. I agree. While I think they need to learn the truth eventually, too, planning on taking the just to convert them makes me bristle.
42
posted on
04/24/2008 8:10:12 AM PDT
by
metmom
(Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
To: AppyPappy
I thought you can’t “covert” someone to another religion... ; ) Yes, that is the intention.
43
posted on
04/24/2008 8:10:15 AM PDT
by
TriGirl
(Lurking for 7 years!!!!!)
To: MizSterious
Even in this evil offshut from Joe Smith’s religion there is something which appears good ... television has not been ‘baby sitting’ these children so much of the corrosive effects of our modern American degeneracy has yet to assault these children. It would be wonderful if they could be placed in foster care where TV isn’t bombarding their daily life, but it is so rare to find families who have major restrictions on TV viewing and that family not in a cult of some sort. I suppose it is an indictment on our so declining culture.
44
posted on
04/24/2008 8:10:29 AM PDT
by
MHGinTN
(Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
To: wideawake; AppyPappy
1850’s medical? No thanks.
Slavery? Not in favor of it.
Good manners? Yes, please.
To: metmom; greyfoxx39; All
I dont think there is one of them who is stable enough to get their children back. Mind control is classed as a mental illness and a childs right to safety far exceeds a mothers rights.
The women in this society will never protect their children. . . . They turn them over to the perpetrators.This quote from #17 just chilled me to the bone. I wonder how many of these children who are returned to their parents (if they ever find them) will experience exactly what the writer says?
46
posted on
04/24/2008 8:11:39 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(The Republican Party is infected with the RINO-virus)
To: TriGirl
Let’s see
Methodism
Vs
Fundamentalist Oppressive Polygamist Pedophilic Mormonism
Kinda hard to choose there.
47
posted on
04/24/2008 8:11:44 AM PDT
by
AppyPappy
(If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
To: metmom
I wish I had had the guts to stand up and say something. But I seemed to be the only person in 300 or so that had a problem with it.
48
posted on
04/24/2008 8:12:58 AM PDT
by
TriGirl
(Lurking for 7 years!!!!!)
To: metmom
Same here. I think the kids at that home should be removed to another. Of course, there might not be another, given the scrambling to find places for them all. Very sad turn of events.
49
posted on
04/24/2008 8:13:43 AM PDT
by
MizSterious
(The Republican Party is infected with the RINO-virus)
To: AppyPappy
Riggghhht, but I think you are missing the point.
50
posted on
04/24/2008 8:13:57 AM PDT
by
TriGirl
(Lurking for 7 years!!!!!)
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