Posted on 04/28/2008 7:31:24 PM PDT by ricks_place
Under shower of questions sparked by FLDS raid, LDS members set differences, explain faith
SAN ANGELO, Texas - The Bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' Second Ward here, Jeffrey Bushman, is used to the quizzical looks and sometimes ludicrous questions directed at people of the Mormon faith.
As a missionary in New York 40 years ago, Bushman once was asked if he had devil's horns. He responded by offering to display the place on his head where he had had them sawed off.
“The only thing they knew about us were horns, polygamy and the Tabernacle Choir,” he said.
So when the Fundamental Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints' Yearning for Zion Ranch was raided April 3, sparking a national media frenzy, he and other church members were prepared to field the inevitable questions that would arise.
Do they practice polygamy? Are their children sexually abused?
“I've had a lot of my neighbors come up” and make inquiries, said Bishop Bushman's First Counselor Jared Seegmiller, who explains to them that the FLDS splintered off from the mainstream LDS Church after the latter renounced polygamy and threatened to excommunicate practitioners of plural marriage.
“And that's really the only explanation I've had to give them,” he said. “And they say, 'OK, that makes sense.' ”
Even some of the newest members of the church have approached Bushman to get clear on whether polygamy is still practiced by the LDS.
“We've had to deal just a little bit with trying to make sure some of our members don't think we're part of the same [FLDS] church,” he said.
Texas officials have played a role in the confusion. Even while acknowledging the two religions are separate, Judge Barbara Walther, of the 51st District Court, asked FLDS attorneys on April 21 to find members of local LDS congregations to supervise the FLDS women and children while they prayed.
Bushman was among those who got a call to do it.
“I said, 'No thank you, that's not quite our job,' ” he said. “I would feel a little awkward. . . . I don't want to be a party to something that may or may not be right.”
While some members are upset by the media's lack of distinction between the two churches, most see it as an opportunity for a discussion about the true doctrine underlying their faith.
“Most of them, I think, believe that it has opened up the lines of communication about the church, probably more than anything else that has happened,” Bushman said. “Their friends and their neighbors ask questions.”
While the LDS don't condone polygamy or child abuse, the bishop said, the raid has in some ways forged a small connection between the two religions. The LDS, historically a persecuted group of people, can sympathize with a church under siege.
“Watching them [Texas Rangers] go into the temple down there, going through it, made me think of the Nauvoo era: just run them out and do what they want to with the building,” Bushman said. “Obviously we understand that a little bit. That's in the back of our heads.”
The FLDS, meanwhile, have turned to some LDS for support. One member, a San Angelo medical professional who asked that his name not be printed, said an FLDS client called him shortly after the raid.
The distressed woman didn't ask for help, he said. “[She just] wanted to know someone on the outside cared about them.”
“In Utah it has been the custom with the Priesthood to make eunuchs of such men as were obnoxious to the leaders. This was done for a double purpose: first, it gave a perfect revenge, and next, it left the poor victim a living example to others of the dangers of disobeying counsel and not living as ordered by the Priesthood. In Nauvoo it was the orders from Joseph Smith and his apostles to beat, wound and castrate all Gentiles that the police could take in the act of entering or leaving a Mormon household under circumstances that led to the belief that they had been there for immoral purposes…. In Utah it was the favorite revenge of old, worn-out members of the Priesthood, who wanted young women sealed to them, and found that the girl preferred some handsome young man. The old priests generally got the girls, and many a young man was unsexed for refusing to give up his sweetheart at the request of the old and failing, but still sensual apostle or member of the Priesthood…. [If] he refused to consent to give up the girl. The lights were then put out. An attack was made on the young man. He was severely beaten, and then tied with his back down on a bench, when Bishop Snow took a bowie-knife, and performed the operation in a most brutal manner, and then took the portion severed from his victim and hung it up in the school-house on a nail, so that it could be seen by all who visited the house afterwards. The party then left the young man weltering in his blood, and in a lifeless condition. During the night he succeeded in releasing himself from his confinement, and dragged himself to some hay-stacks, where he lay until the next day, when he was discovered by his friends. The young man regained his health, but has been an idiot or quite lunatic ever since, and is well known by hundreds of both Mormons and Gentiles in Utah.”
- Elder John D. Lee, Mormonism Unveiled; Including The Remarkable Life And Confessions Of The Late Mormon Bishop, John D. Lee, 1877, pp. 284-285, 286
Sorry, but I'm more inclined to believe what I can observe of the actions of several million adherents of one of America's leading religions who also happen to be one of America's most conservative voting demographics than I am the twisted tirades of one of a handful of bigoted perverts whose sole purpose on this form is to divide one conservative group from another.
(Happy sigh)
It’s SOOOOOOOOO good to have Elsie back
:)
Vig, stubbornness to the truth only makes truth bigot converts out of them.
"Revelation"
I have a personal "revelation" that some Mormons have come by your house and have helped you with your yardwork, for which you are greatly appreciate to them, and that your genuine, warm sentiments of thanksgiving for this graciousness extended to you has left the reputation of all Mormons to be in a good light in your eyes.
Is your subjective experience true? (Yes. Mormons can be warm & helpful & compassionate).
Does your subjective experience give you anything but a tinge of anecdotal evidence to evaluate all Mormons or all Mormon beliefs? (No). Even Mormons would say "no"--for they leave the "judging" part up their bishops who evaluate them for temple recommends.
Sorry, but I'm more inclined to believe what I can observe of the actions of several million adherents of one of America's leading religions...
You know, it's a Free Republic world.
...twisted tirades...
Yeah, well some of the best "twisted tirades" I've seen are those who rail against "twisted tirades."
As a missionary in New York 40 years ago, Bushman once was asked if he had devil’s horns. He responded by offering to display the place on his head where he had had them sawed off.
“The only thing they knew about us were horns, polygamy and the Tabernacle Choir,” he said.
They better, not that it will help them with some here
"Are you starting up with THAT again? It’s totally irrelevant to the discussion and just an attempt at thread hijacking."
"I sometimes like to stir the pot.
My mom was from Halls Tennessee, how about you?" ============================================================ When metmom points out that you seem to be hijacking the thread by responding to your spam you should take a look at your posts, or as you call them 'stirring the pot'
How many is "several"?
The Baptists stand on polygamy among new converts does not reflect a wholesale softening of it’s stand against polygamy.
It’s not unusual for missions groups to have to address the issue and the conclusion is that if they forced the men to divorce wives that they legally (according to their culture) married, then they would not only be forcing them to commit a sin in divorce, but the women thus divorced would be cast out as those cultures have no way for a woman to provide for herself outside of marriage.
It’s then concluded that allowing the new converts at remain married to their multiple wives would be less of a evil than divorcing them and failing to provide for them.
Polygamy, however, is not practiced, encouraged, or condoned among converts who were single when they converted and that is accepted by the indigenous people.
I’d bet that the younger men were especially happy about the increased availability of marriageable women.
No, Catholics don't believe in three separate distinct gods. They believe in one God with three distinct ways for relating to mankind.
I am a daughter to my parents, a wife to my husband, a mother to my children. I am all one person but have three totally different roles and relationships to the people around me. It would be totally inappropriate to relate to the other people in my life in a different role that is intended.
More than three?
Oh say 7-8 years ago.
Oh say 7-8 years ago.
“FC, you are the biggest lying piece of trash out here. Why do you have to take a simple and clear statement and CHANGE it into a damned lie? What are you, a freaking Baptist?”
Hummmm, someone has their garmies in a wad. Once again, don’t bother to quote anything or point to any examples, just hurl invective (as I have demonstrated by quoting you above - see how that works, provide some proof.)
And if I am guilty of lies, they are not damned ones, but lies blessed by my patron saint, Joseph Smith, who guides me in all I do here. I mean, if I’m gonna be a charlatan, I might as well hang with the best.
Peepstones for sale! Get your all-seeing peepstones right here!
Someone please throw him a Trinity chew toy to help brighten his day.
Yeah but unlike Calvinists, Baptists believe in two ways to Heaven
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