LDS vs FLDS. Just for the record...

blogspot ^ | April 10th, 2008 | gab

[sevenbak]

Some Mormon women sing...

Some Mormon women dance...

Some Mormon women write scary stories...

Some Mormon women have a lot of money and really great hair...

I know hundreds of Mormon women. They do all kinds of different things and live all different kinds of lives.

This woman served as a leader in the Mormon church. She recently spoke to teenage girls worldwide. She encouraged them to stand up to peer pressure, strengthen their families and serve others. (Click here for more.)


None of the Mormon women I know look like this...

None of them are marrying off their teenage daughters and-- although some may joke about wanting a sister-wife (preferably one who is really fat & ugly, does bathrooms and changes diapers)--none of them really want to share their husband with anyone.

Furthermore...

Some Mormon guys can throw a ball...

Some Mormon guys yell at the ball...

Some Mormon guys make scary movies...

Some Mormon guys have a lot of money and really great hair...

I know hundreds of Mormon guys. They do all kinds of different things and live all kinds of different lives.

This is one of the leaders of the Mormon church. Last Sunday he spoke about honoring women, especially mothers, and gave advice to husbands and children about how to treat the women in their lives. (For the whole story, click here.)

None of the Mormon men I know look like this...

The Mormon men I know are honest and hard-working. They don't cheat, smoke, drink or gamble. And TRUST ME....the last thing any of them want is another wife.

[Colofornian]

Re: Ted Bundy & other Mormon killers: So what? Dennis Rader, the BTK serial killer, was an active leader of a Lutheran church. Did Lutherans "produce" Dennis Rader? Mormonism produced Warren Jeffs? Really? Which living Mormon talked him into it? [stinkerpot65]

OK, if you can't see a key difference between Christian theology & Mormon theology about long-term accountability, then I'm sorry.

First of all, Jesus made it clear that His church would be full of both wheat & tares...and He gave careful instructions that it wasn't to be up to mere men to judge the hearts of worthiness even of the tares--which stands in direct contradiction to what every Mormon bishop does...his main role is to be spiritual "Judge" & "Jury" of Mormons over discipline and temple worthiness.

So whereas Jesus says to NOT toss out the tares (since even some of the tares undergo later conversions to wheat), what do we have LDS bishops do? (They lock out Mormons from the temples...which actually is fine with me, because at least it keeps 80% or more of Mormons out of even deeper steeped lives of empty religious ritualism).

Still, Christians know that indeed God will hold the Rader types accountable. And while I can't predict any specific person who will wind up in hell, I can tell you that some of these murderers who are members of churches certainly may wind up there.

Now compare that to the ultimate lack of long-term accountability in the Mormon church. Whereas heaven awaits some murderers, hell awaits many other murderers. Comparing that to Mormonism, it gives the contradictory position that murder is a unforgiveable sin but then proceeds to promise "salvation" to almost all murderers (except for apostates).

[Colofornian]

Isaac (later Israel) have several wives. David also had multiple wives. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob find exceptional favor with the Lord, yet they were polygamists.

OK, I'm tired of this lying crap. Resty, it's time for you & all the other Mormon posters who have repeatedly posted the slanderous lie that Isaac was a polygamist repent! Every time I've challenged the basis of this lie, no one 'fesses up to it, because to do so, they'd realize they would need to also call Joseph Smith a liar.

Resty, admit it. There is NO Bible passage upon which you make this slanderous claim. (Even your chart in post #206 shows only Rebekah as his lone wife...imagine how Rebekah in heaven comments to Elohim every time she hears you or another Mormon make this claim based upon 1 Doctrine & Covenants passage--132:1...but if you don't believe D&C 132:4,21,27,32,37 is applicable anymore, then why does v. 1 hold water for you?

You know tootin' well that Smith was biblically illiterate (even Mormons themselves make a big deal about that as some sort of "proof" God used him). Well, his biblical illiteracy came out in flying colors in D&C 132:1.

Oh, and speaking of Isaac, note what he told his son, Jacob: Take a wife [not several wives] for yourself there... (Gen. 28:2) It was never Jacob's idea--nor God's directive--for him to sleep with more than one wife.

You quoted Hosea 1:2: And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD.

While it's quite obvious that God directed Hosea to take a whore as a wife--someone who continued to "ply her trade" post marriage...note the implications of this. It is you that says God directed polygamy...when at best folks can only seize upon one remote verse from 2 Sam. re: David.

So are you consistent? You say that God directed polygamy. Then I guess you and other Mormons must also conclude, on the basis of Hosea 1:2-3, that God directed marriage to unconverted prostitutes.

(Now tell us why Joseph Smith didn't put that "institution" in as part of Mormonism? Or did he and we just don't know about it 'cause he kept it "under covers" like he did his affairs for almost a decade until his first formal extra-marital "wedding" ceremony in 1841...for some reason, wife Emma wasn't invited, either!)

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob find exceptional favor with the Lord, yet they were polygamists.

As for Abraham, your chart shows Keturah and Sarai--but nothing in Genesis ever shows that they were simultaneously married to Abraham. (And your chart clearly distinguishes Hagar as a concubine...a servant/slave woman who served a one-night stand as a "surrogate.")

Besides, even you conceded that God favored David despite his lust, adultery & manslaughter. So if God could look past that in David, why would sleeping with concubines qualify as something God also couldn't look past?

[restornu]

I have no clue what you are talking about I never talk about Isaac it seem you can’t tell one post from another you own me an apology!

Go back and read http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2008967/replies?c=187

I was including UG comments pertain to this topic.

And who are you to tell me I can not express my own thoughts on this and discusss it with Utah Girl LDS etc. boy are you very possessive!

[Degaston]

>> Isaac, Israel's (AKA Jacob) dad had only one wife, Rebekah.

  I think Utah Girl is speaking about the teaching in LDS circles that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob(Israel) are now polygamists who are now exalted. I'd suggest searching on ISAAC in the Journal of Discourses to find some references on this. And also look at http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132/1#1 and http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132/37#37.

  In summary I'd like to mention that there is only one big issue that separated the LDS from the FLDS theologically. The LDS decided in the early 1900's during the administrations of Joseph F. Smith and Heber J. Grant to quietly repudiate the teachings of Brigham Young, John Taylor and Wilford Woodruff on one of the most essential Mormon doctrines - i.e. eternal marriage.

nbsp; Brigham Young taught that if the church gave up polygamy then they'd be damned. See Journal of Discourse, vol. 3, p. 266.

nbsp; Brigham Young, “The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of Gods, are those who enter into polygamy.” (Journal of Discourses 11:269).

nbsp; John Taylor, "Where did this commandment come from in relation to polygamy? It also came from God...When this commandment was given, it was so far religious, and so far binding upon the Elders of this Church that it was told them if they were not prepared to enter into it, and to stem the torrent of opposition that would come in consequence of it, the keys of the kingdom would be taken from them. When I see any of our people, men or women, opposing a principle of this kind, I have years ago set them down as on the high road to apostacy, and I do to-day; I consider them apostates, and not interested in this Church and kingdom" (Journal of Discourses 11:221).

nbsp; In 1886 John Taylor claimed a revelation and that there would eventually be a manifesto of apostates that the church would give up polygamy and that the one mighty and strong would set the house of the Lord in order. The mainline LDS church rejects this revelation.

[Degaston]

See http://www.mormonfundamentalism.com/NEWFILES/1886RevelationNew.htm for the text of the revelation that the LDS church rejects but that most other Mormon denominations (especially the fastest growing ones) accept.

[Elsie]

When Jesus found a sinner he listened to them, he let them know he loved them, he said sin no more, but he let them come to him.

When HE found RELIGIOUS AUTHORITIES (in their OWN mind) HE set them straight in no uncertain terms.

LDS claims to be the ONLY church; the ONLY one with 'authority', the ONLY one with the 'restored' gospel and the ONLY 'rituals' that ENSURE dead folks get a second chance.

This kind of hubris needs to be met head on.

[Elsie]

How can a man (emphasis on that word-Man)start claiming to be a prophet and by blather and constant repetition, attain the status of a deity?

 

 

" The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success

unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly -

- it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over."

[Elsie]

So, according to you anyone who disagrees with you is to be tortured and murdered.

How do you manage to contort some of my words into such conclusions?

[Elsie]

LUCKY? THEN YOU CONDONE TORTURE ALSO?

(You'll note I don't play defense too well...)

[Elsie]

Come on MM; put my finger!

[Elsie]

But still you turn my words, I never said Jesus was wrong my point was conversation was incomplete.

Ha!

You should see OMM's work!

[Elsie]

Instead of acknowledging these are perversions of the Lord Doctrines as well as the FLDS also is false!

Likewise...

Instead of acknowledging these are perversions of the Lord Doctrines as well as the LDS also is false!

[Elsie]

You may disagree with Mr. Henry; but do you also disagree with King James??

 

 

KJV 1 Corinthians 15:36-45
 36.  Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
 37.  And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
 38.  But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
 39.  All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
 40.  There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
 41.  There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
 42.  So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
 43.  It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
 44.  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

 

 

[Elsie]

(trick of turning argument around and accusing the accuser)

We see this a LOT!! ;^)

[Elsie]

Hee hee!

[Elsie]

I think that it may be that you are looking at the scriptures through the lens of doctrine instead of the plain meaning of the words.

 

 

That seems to have happened a LOT!!

TRUTH IGNORED

 

 

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Smith, Young, Taylor, Pratt, Snow, Kimbal,l Woodruff ...

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 1 Timothy 3:2-3
 2.  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
 3.  not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

 

 

1 Timothy 3:12
   A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.

 

 

 Titus 1:6
   An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

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BEHOLD!!!!  The Restorative Power  of the Book of Mormon!!

 

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THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI

CHAPTER 2

 

  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.

 

 

[Elsie]

I tend not to go to ancient authority to “interpret” scripture, but to read it as it is.
That was my downfall as a Baptist and why I left them behind almost forty years ago.

To which scripture do you go to read about the UNTRUTH about PRESBYTERIANISM?

To which scripture do you go to read about the Temple Rituals®?

[Elsie]

And some of you were asking me about hateful statements. Tsk tsk.

Don't worry about those; what about the TRUTHFUL ones?

[Elsie]

Therefore, would you please provide links for your version of Smith’s death from sources that cannot be edited by those with an agenda?

We can see what you are trying to do here; you HATEFUL BIGOT!!

You are IMPLYING that we truthful LDS will go into WIKI to 'sanitize' our past!

You are DESPICABLE!!!

--MormonDude(Sufferin' su'thotash!!)

[Elsie]

Envy, Lust and Pride

Sounds like a new for a Rock Group of the 70's !

E,W & F comes to mind!)