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Sect boys may have been abused by older boys
MySA.com ^ | 5/1/08 | Terri Langford and Lisa Sandberg

Posted on 05/01/2008 10:47:42 AM PDT by Politicalmom

State authorities are investigating whether younger boys taken from a polygamist ranch in West Texas were sexually abused by older boys, not adults, a state official said today.

Documents taken from the Yearning for Zion Ranch near Eldorado indicate that younger boys were molested by older boys at the ranch, the official, who asked not to be identified, told the Houston Chronicle.

No other details about the abuse were available.

On Wednesday, Texas Department of Family and Protective Services Commissioner Carey Cockerell revealed to a Senate panel that at least 41 of the 464 children in state custody had previously broken or fractured bones.

``Several of these fractures have been found in very young children and several had multiple fractures,'' he said.

Most of the information about the fractures was reported to DFPS' Texas Child Protective Services by the children or their mothers. Few X-rays have been done on the children, agency officials said.

But Cockerell also told the Senate Health and Human Services Committee that the agency is looking into the possible sexual abuse of some boys, based on interviews and journal entries.

In addition, he informed the panel of several hurdles CPS workers faced in trying to identify the children and determine their health status.

He said both women and children removed plastic identity bracelets issued to them or rubbed the wording off of them. CPS had tried to use the bracelets to help workers keep track of children.

Also, FLDS women initially refused to let the children undergo basic health screenings and many of the teen girls refused to take pregnancy tests. The women and older children often monitored younger children, telling them not to speak to CPS workers or coaching them on what to say, Cockerell said.

For the past month, child welfare investigators had focused nearly all of their attention on the alleged sexual abuse of young girls who once resided with their parents at the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints' ranch.

Until now, officials have alluded only occasionally to suspected physical abuse. The breakaway Mormon sect practices polygamy and its spiritual leader, Warren Jeffs, is serving a prison sentence after being convicted of being an accomplice to rape of an underage girl.

No other details were available about the possible abuse of the boys or how many of the fractures, which affect less than 10 percent of the total child population from the sect, can be attributed to their life on a big ranch with a large amount of construction and farm equipment.

FLDS spokesman Rod Parker called Cockerell's testimony "a deliberate effort to mislead the public."

Parker said any broken bones would have been treated in medical facilities away from the ranch and that doctors are required to report suspected abuse.

It was not clear how many of the children might have been injured while playing or working on the 1,700-acre ranch they once called home.

Lloyd Barlow, the ranch's onsite physician, said he was caring for a number of FLDS children with broken or fractured bones at the time they were removed from the ranch.

"Probably over 90 percent of the injuries are forearm fractures from ground-level or low level falls," Barlow told the Associated Press. "I can also tell you that we don't live in a community where there is a pattern of abuse."

Dr. Emalee Flaherty, a pediatrician in Chicago who specializes in child abuse, cautioned against jumping to conclusions that the children's broken bones were caused by abuse.

There might be many variables, she said, such as a high incidence of bone disease or a special diet that causes a vitamin deficiency that predisposes the group's children to brittle bones.

"This is a pretty closed community," Flaherty said, adding that life on a ranch might also expose children to injuries.

Dr. Bruce Perry, a Houston child psychiatrist and child abuse expert, said the type of fracture also is important.

"There are certain characteristics of fractures that go with abuse," Perry said. "It would be really important to know what bone was fractured and the type of fracture."

The state's April 3 raid on the YFZ Ranch has been criticized by some who believe CPS overstepped its authority when it took all of the children and placed them in foster care after finding underage girls were "spiritually married" to much older men.

CPS officials counter that they found at least one underage girl who was pregnant or had children in each of the sect's 19 homes on the ranch when they first arrived on April 3.

The agency clarified that number on Monday, saying at least 31 of the 53 girls ages 14 to 17 are pregnant, have children or both. Another child was born to a teen mother on Tuesday.

All of the children have been placed in group homes and shelters around the state until the investigation is completed.

For CPS, determining ages has been one of the biggest challenges. The agency reached the 53 total after reclassifying 26 girls, who had said they were older than 18, as younger than 18.

Stephanie Goodman, spokeswoman for the state's Health and Human Services Department, said those girls had told officials they were younger than 18.

"For most of these children, we've been given different ages and different names," Goodman said. "We have teenagers who can't tell us their birthdates. Some have answered (that) they don't know. Others have said, 'I'm not supposed to tell you.' "

Under Texas law, children under age 17 generally cannot consent to sex with an adult. A girl can get married with parental permission at 16, but none of the sect's girls is believed to have had a legal marriage under state law. Also Wednesday, legal aid attorneys for some of the mothers filed an amended petition with the Third Court of Appeals in Austin, seeking the return of the children sent to residential foster care homes across the state.

"The wholesale removal of (the children) from their mothers was not justified," the petition read in part.

The department may have introduced evidence that some girls were being physically abused, but such evidence did not "pertain to the overwhelming majority of the children ... nor did it establish that each child was at risk of physical danger."


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: childabuse; flds; mormonbashing
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To: Old Mountain man
Ho hum, seen it before, and I really doubt you were ever in a bishopric.

Just use the NUMBER!!! #11

121 posted on 05/02/2008 5:42:39 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Utah Binger
Objectivity requires intellectual honesty and not the sad fundamental silliness of your lightweight statement.

Hey!!

GENTILE!

Do NOT lump this, this... SLC LDSer in with US!!

That wimpy group CHOOSE to cave in to the MIGHTY US Government, instead of FOLLOWING what GOD has CLEARLY told us!

TAKE OUR LANDS!!

and

JAIL OUR WIVES!!

We defy the gummint and trust in ALMIGHTY GOD to deliver us!

--FundyMormonDue(Righteously indignant over it ALL!!)

122 posted on 05/02/2008 5:47:25 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Old Mountain man
I would imagine that there are even catholic priests that are not child molesters and a few baptists that are not hypocrites.

I imagine there are YOUNG men up on hills that have vowed NOT to bitter like their dads; too.

123 posted on 05/02/2008 5:48:40 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: UCANSEE2
It’s not evil religions.

Even though there ARE some that exist!


124 posted on 05/02/2008 5:51:09 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: UCANSEE2
“I was wondering, if there is actual evidence of older boys abusing younger boys, how does that mesh with the judge’s ruling to send the older boys together with the younger boys to group homes?”

HAve they found any evidence of SELF abuse?

125 posted on 05/02/2008 5:51:58 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Old Mountain man
And you are the resident expert on objectivity and intellectual honesty?

Numbers...

NUMBERS!

#1 & #12

126 posted on 05/02/2008 5:53:38 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: GovernmentShrinker

#14


127 posted on 05/02/2008 5:54:41 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Too hung over to respond Mr. Fundy-Mental-Morgbot. 30 painters kept me up all night talking about important stuff.....I think!


128 posted on 05/02/2008 6:13:18 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Mount Carmel Utah, most beautiful place on earth.)
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To: Old Mountain man
Why should I refute such obvious garbage?

That's up to you, but he gave citations, so I guess I'll believe what he claimed it says until someone proves otherwise.

129 posted on 05/02/2008 6:14:29 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall cause you to vote against the Democrats.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Even the men sometimes change their last names. I was reading an ex-FLDS message board the other day which mentioned a guy named William Timpson/William _____ (one of the common last names, can’t recall which) being one of the senior leaders at YFZ. It was clear he was originally William Timpson, but had apparently changed his name as he rose up in the organization.


130 posted on 05/02/2008 6:44:50 AM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: Elsie

As a young teen in the late 50s, the only sex boys my age got was “oral” - meaning we talked about it a lot.


131 posted on 05/02/2008 7:36:18 AM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: Elsie
It's in our very DNA, you Boob! uh... GENTILE!

Jewish people must think it funny to be classified as "gentile" by Mormons.

132 posted on 05/02/2008 7:38:16 AM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: UCANSEE2; Politicalmom; metmom; CharlesWayneCT; greyfoxx39; MizSterious

This article quotes both an outside doctor who treats these children, and an ex-FLDS member, as saying they actually take very good care of the fumarase-deficient children (and of course, get extra taxpayer money and medical care for each affected child). From what I’ve read, about half of these children die before age one (even outside the FLDS communities), and I think the rest die well before reaching adulthood. That may account for some of the babies in the Babyland cemetery, especially if not all of the affected infants are being brought to the attention of outside medical personnel.

Re the incinerator, see this old thread http://texaspolygamy.blogspot.com/2005/05/warrenjeffs-moderator.html (misleading thread name, as thread starts with a question about a mystery message board claiming to be moderated by WJ) on an ex-FLDS blog (haunted by a handful of current FLDS members) in which an ex-member who was involved in building the incinerator discusses it. Incinerator discussion starts in earnest about 3/4ths of the way down. He seems to be unsure what it was really for, but doesn’t discount the disposal-of-bodies theory. Overall, that’s an interesting message board, though incredibly difficult to navigate and rarely any correlation between thread headings and thread content. There seem to be a lot of ex-FLDSers who have fond memories of the community, all dating to pre-Warren times. Makes me the think the church/community may be resurrected in a saner form in the foreseeable future, with Warren and his equally insane lieutenants out of the picture. I’m increasingly getting the sense that the Texas, Utah, and Arizona authorities are effectively rescuing the church members from the control of a handful of tyrannical dictators whose iron-fisted control of the church is a fairly recent development (i.e. 10 years or so).

A bit off-topic, take a look at the second photo accompanying this news article http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2005-12-29/news/forbidden-fruit/ . It shows one of the two founders of the FLDS, shortly before his death in 1953 (the year of the Short Creek raid), with a young daughter sitting on his knee. It’s instructive as to the huge change this church has undergone since its founding. That photo a little girl dressed in normal 1950s clothes, happily sitting on the knee of her father (who’s clearly old enough to be her grandfather, but nothing inherently wrong with that). I think it helps illustrate why the Utah and Arizona governments left this group alone for a long time, and also that when they did the Short Creek raid, it really was mainly about polygamy, and not about imprisonment and child abuse, and that explains why there was huge public outcry against that raid. No doubt for quite a long time after 1953, reports of really forced marriages of minors and of severe child abuse were considered as exceptions, not as representative of the group’s lifestyle.

It appears that things started getting gradually more cultish after 1953 — not sure when Warren Jeffs’ father Rulon became prophet, but if this founder in the photo was the second founder to die, it may have been 1953. It would make sense that in the immediate post-raid environment, the group would have responded to that experience by becoming more insular and paranoid. But even under Rulon, there was quite a bit of freedom, with some young women still going to college (probably while living at home), and there apparently was little or none of the phenomenon of kicking out adolescent and teen boys. The move toward hard-core cultishness seems to have really been driven by Warren, starting when Rulon was old and infirm and not fully in charge anymore, and drastically accelerating after Rulon’s death and Warren ascension to the official prophet position.


133 posted on 05/02/2008 8:04:30 AM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Thanks for the information. Very interesting.


134 posted on 05/02/2008 8:07:19 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Thanks for the ping. Off to check out the links...


135 posted on 05/02/2008 8:27:00 AM PDT by MizSterious (God bless the Texas Rangers for freeing women & children from sexual slavery and abuse.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

For the purposes of sexual abuse or statutory rape, underage would be under 17, since 17 is the age of consent in Texas. Any girl whose conception date was before their 17th birthday would be a suspected victim of statutory rape unless the identified father was less than 3 years her senior.


136 posted on 05/02/2008 11:49:06 AM PDT by Valpal1 (OW! My head just exploded!)
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