Texas used seized FLDS records against polygamous sect

The Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 05/06/2008 | Brooke Adams

[CindyDawg]

I speak from direct experience

What happened?

[najida]

Yep....some more than others, but yeah....most are written from a male POV and what makes them happy.

[takenoprisoner]

I’m simply trying to discern how folks can defend any state doing this to families enmasse as has been done in this case. These actions are in my view indefensible. This is not a united nation (united we stand divided we fall) when it can allow any state to do this to mothers and their children. I cannot begin to fathom the horror they are feeling right now.

These actions lend credibility to the communist chinese who argue that Americans need to clean up our own human rights violations before passing judgment on them.

[CindyDawg]

Which I don’t understand. The women way outnumbered the men. Just a little collective organization and they could have been running the place:’)

[commonguymd]

My wife is Indian. She opted for a “love” marriage as it is called. Her family gave consent, otherwise culturally it is the parents and family that determines who is acceptable for her to marry. Now, the one difference in her family, albeit they are a little more progressive, is that she was granted permission whereas many in her culture would not be able to and if they said no, she would not be able to. Even if she is 30, 25, or 18, she must have the family blessing. Most "love" marriages outside of castes are unallowed.

[najida]

Exactly!

Take 3 steps back and think-—
What is more perfect?
You can have sex with any woman as young as you want.
You can have as many women look up to you as ‘master’ as you want.
You don’t have share a bed with them, just do the deed and go on.
You don’t have to support them (the government does that).
You don’t have to please them sexually.
You control everything from their underwear, to their hair to their vocal patterns— you are a mini-God.
They don’t talk back, dont’ argue, don’t demand, don’t question....they are the perfect woman.

Yeah, it’s a wet dream.

[takenoprisoner]

Maybe the fingers should be pointing at those who made slaves of their own, then left them to be taken.

I believe the Waco massacre made them realize they were unable to defend them even if they were of mind to. Better to allow the state to seize them rather than have them burned alive.

[investigateworld]

"..and doing the job that Utah and Arizona should have done a long time ago.... "

[commonguymd]

I would get bored if my wife wasn’t there to argue with me, and likewise as we joke she would too. One is enough.

[najida]

Oh please,
This is nothing like Waco.....

Look,
even now we have what, all of 8 men who’ve come forward to offer DNA so they can claim their ‘families’? Yeah, a lot of love there-—/not. Ask anyone who works with kids in CPS or DFACS.

The parents who want their kids back will crawl over broken glass to get them back and walk through fire to save them. Then we have the ‘ok, yeah, well, see you later’ parents that sadly, we see far to many of.... Which is why we get ‘their’ kids because their parents have made it clear they are not loved or wanted.

This isn’t about parents who loved their families and ‘ran’ to save them...this is about those who used others— for income, for sex, for worker-bees, for some semi-perv fantasy.....and tucked their tails to save themselves....and still are.

[najida]

If you’ve ever been around a batter spouse or kid, they can outweigh or outnumber their abuser and still not realize they have the power to free themselves.

The mind is where it all happens.

Granted, when they finally DO realize they’re bigger or there’s more of them, the abuser becomes a grease spot on the floor and we get them for an eval ;)

[najida]

Exactly,
you want a mate who looks you in the eye.

[CindyDawg]

I defend the state because I just can not imagine this being a 1 hour unilateral plan. Probably darn near every gov. legal representative across the state that could be contacted was. If you were the judge (an elected official), would you have signed the warrant without strong evidence? Would the top honchos at CPS as arrogant as they can be sometimes, authorize removing the kids without strong evidence? No one wants to get caught on this. I figure the state has to have a very good case.

On the other side..all I read about are feelings and rights. Where is the proof that this didn't happen.

If it turns out that these folk were innocent then I'll be right there with yall, on the state's case. I don't see it happening though.

[kbennkc]

It is a beautiful day here . Quail and dove are all over my yard . I am hand feeding my squirrels , the bravest now come right in my chihuahau’s doggy door , he disapproves of this practice . Most important of all my own children are safe . I have the academic luxury of wondering if all the due process requirements have been complied with in the smallest detail . The Texas authorities were responding to a most unusual emergency notice where the safety of children was about the only thing in their minds . They had the courage and the call to duty to react and they were willing to face the music if some mistakes were made .
The most basic of our due process rights are notice and the right to be heard . The statutes identify the such rights and when exigent circumstances allow the departure from the usual requirements . I think there is far from sufficient information available to me to be comfortable that all the children needed to be separated from their mothers . It does seem that at least some people were denied notice and the opportunity for a reasonable hearing in their individual case . In fact there does not seem to be a respect for the individual . It is unfortunate that the proceedings can not be discussed without calling each other names like child rapist enabler or calling Texas Rangers jack booted thugs . I worked and paid for my education and do not always have the time and patience I wish I had to share my opinions . When I am called vile names I have no tolerance at all . To the name callers I respectfully suggest Myheritage .org . It is their mission and reason for existence to bring people out of the dark by sharing the Constitution .

[commonguymd]

She better, otherwise I will sm.................

/humor

[ArrogantBustard]

< snip >

Yeah, it’s a wet dream.

Only for a sicko.

[CindyDawg]

Yeah, I know. Been there. It’s time for the ladies to start mopping the grease off the floors though.

[metmom]

That’s right. Shame on me. We’re supposed to take their word on it over the word of everybody else commenting on it because,..... uh,... because..... um,...well, ummmm,... you see.....

Why is that again?

[CindyDawg]

JMO but Waco was easy for the government to take. They had little support. Even today, do we hear much about the victims?

This group seems to be backed by money and power. Is it possible that they were advised to not resist and told it would be fought in court?

[brytlea]

You clearly disagree with what the state has done, but good people on the other side disagree with you. This does not make them stupid or commies, or whatever. There is ample evidence that this was the only avenue for CPS to discover what actually was going on. I understand that many people don’t like CPS and feel they are heavy handed. I also understand that some people feel this is a religious issue (are they going to defend say muslims if they do the same type of thing?) and it’s fine for us to disagree. We will ALL have to wait and see what the courts say.

I personally believe (but could be wrong) that there is more evidence than we know about. And, btw, I was probably the LAST person to believe that Scott Peterson killed Laci. Why? Because I have a hard time imagining husbands or wives or parents or children harming those they are supposed to love. But, it does happen.

Susie