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Why I chose abortion twice
UK Telegraph ^ | 5/12/08 | Lucy Cavendish

Posted on 05/11/2008 11:48:32 AM PDT by wagglebee

Abortion is back in the news yet, understandably, many women still find it difficult to talk about. Here Lucy Cavendish – who has been through it twice – offers a candid view

Virtually every woman I know of my generation has had an abortion. The problem is that no one talks about it. It is hidden away as if it were a dirty secret. This week, however, every time I've opened a newspaper or turned on the radio, abortion has been the topic du jour.

First, Conservative MP Nadine Dorries called for the legal limit for terminations to be pushed back from 24 to 20 weeks, in preparation for a crucial Commons vote on the issue on May 20, when the Government introduces the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill. Then the Department of Health announced that it was considering allowing more women to have early abortions using pills at local family planning centres. On Tuesday, BBC2 airs a much-hyped documentary, Abortion: The Choice and, to top it all, Britain is on its way to becoming the abortion capital of Europe, second only to Ukraine.

Yet women still don't talk about it.

There are 200,000 of us who have abortions each year, of whom only 1 per cent opt to terminate their pregnancies after 22 weeks. How many of the other 99 per cent's stories do we hear? I have rarely talked about my own experiences. I have had two abortions, both when I was in my early twenties and contraception – condom first, cap second – failed.

The first was just before I was due to sit my finals and in an on-off relationship. I told the man responsible. He wasn't interested. My next pregnancy happened a few years later when I was starting up the career ladder. I was 25 and in a serious relationship. My boyfriend at the time made it pretty clear that he didn't want a baby and I didn't want one either.

That is as far as our conversation went, and I will be honest, it never seriously occurred to me not to terminate those pregnancies. Both times, I found out I was pregnant early on and, like 90 per cent of women who have abortions, I was in hospital before 12 weeks was up to have the foetus removed. I went on my own for the first one. My boyfriend came with me for the second.

The operation then involved either a D and C (dilation and curettage), commonly known as "a scrape", or having the foetus vacuumed out. You went into hospital, signed a form and were then given a general anaesthetic, which meant that, whatever happened, you were blissfully unaware of it. One minute you were pregnant, the next you weren't. That's how simple it all felt. You woke up, went home, put some hot damp towels by the bed and waited for the bleeding. It was almost Dickensian.

This operation took place day in, day out. That was what the doctor told me as I sat, surrounded by other women who also didn't want to be pregnant, in a silent waiting-room. We all trooped in, one after the other and then we all woke up together, not mentioning a word of what we had just been through.

After the second operation, though, as I tried to avoid the gaze of other women in the recovery room, I saw an older woman crying in the corner and I wish now I'd asked her why. At the time, I imagined we all felt the same way; that having a baby was something we didn't want. Why, then, did none of us feel able to talk to anyone else in the room?

There seems to be no coming together of women in solidarity over abortion. Women unite to help when a battered wife leaves a husband or a wife and mother is abandoned by a husband or lover, but on the issue of abortion there is a resounding silence. We don't swap stories over the dinner table. We do not nod in sympathy.

This may be because the underlying assumptions about women who have abortions are uncomplimentary. All any woman has to do is pick up a women's magazine or a newspaper to read endless stories of how X regretted her abortion or Y nearly died from complications.

We are sometimes made to feel that we are murdering our unborn babies and acting immorally. We are snubbing life – not just life, a baby's life. And, these days, babies in the womb have been given faces, names and characteristics through sophisticated technologies such as 3-D scanning. The implication is that a woman has got pregnant because she is an irresponsible, selfish slut who doesn't care about the life of her unborn child and cares only for herself.

Abortion is also something that seemingly has nothing to do with men. Once the woman is pregnant, it is her decision alone as to what to do with that pregnancy. The only exception to this general lack of involvement was in 1987 when Richard Carver, a 24-year-old student at Magdalene College, Oxford, took his 21-year-old former girlfriend to court to stop her from having the abortion she wanted. The girlfriend was 21 weeks pregnant and the court upheld her right not to have the baby. In the end, though, she was so traumatised by the case that she went into hiding, had the baby, and handed it to Carver, who brought up the child.

From my own experience, even my committed boyfriend looked surprised when I asked him what he thought we ought to do about my being pregnant. Still, I wasn't asked about the feelings of my partners. Counselling was offered to me, not them.

But the other issue is that, when you are young, no one actually explains to you what the opposite of having an abortion means. Since I have had children (I have four), I think about this more often. Back then, I had no concept of what having a baby meant. I merely saw these potential babies as things I just could not have; as drawbacks, inanimate objects that were somehow going to ruin my life. I realise now that maybe I could have had them. Would it have been a disaster? I don't know. But I made the same choice twice and I believe I had the right to do so. And I do not regret it. I don't lie awake wondering what these foetuses would have grown into or how old they would be now or any of that stuff. For a while afterwards, on the odd occasion, I did. It would have helped, I think, to have been able to speak to someone about it.

I believe that women should be encouraged to be open about it. Maybe this would reduce the number who opt for a late (20 weeks-plus) termination. Of my friends who have had an abortion, only one had a 20-week-plus termination. She was 15 and had acted stupidly with a boy from her local school; they had lost their heads and didn't use contraception. She crossed her fingers and hoped it wouldn't happen. But it did – and she reacted by not telling anyone. She says now that she couldn't bear the thought of telling her parents. Five months later, the waist band of her school skirt was getting tight.

Eventually, her mother noticed and my friend confessed. Her parents, as she had expected, hit the roof, but then promptly booked her into hospital. She was told she would have to be induced and then to "pass" the child. By 24 weeks, it's no longer a simple operation. My friend has been scarred for life by this experience.

Oddly enough, I have another friend who became pregnant when she was in her early twenties and, once again, somehow didn't notice. One day, while working as a ski rep, she fell down with pain and an hour later a baby came out. That baby is now going to university. But my point is that women do get pregnant when they don't want to and, sometimes, they are incapable of dealing with it. Some of them – bright university graduates – get pregnant and don't realise until it's too late. Still, choosing to terminate a pregnancy that late on is a serious decision, and I don't believe anyone takes it lightly. The baby will have kicked. It is alive in the way that an eight-week-old blob is not.

I also know women who, at my age (40) and having had children, have gone on to abort further pregnancies. For some mothers that is shocking. The journalist Miranda Sawyer once wrote that she couldn't cope with the idea of aborting a baby now that she had children of her own. Yet, in The Times, Caitlin Moran stated precisely the opposite, that after two children she didn't want a third and an abortion was "one of the least difficult decisions of my life".

But neither of these women is pushing to change the legality of this difficult issue. Some mothers take the decision that they don't want any more children and that, even though they are more aware of what it involves than any teenager or woman who hasn't had a baby, they still choose not to go down that path. All the women I know who have taken this option have done so quickly, but as early abortions are now carried out under local anaesthetic, they have also been made aware of the doctor's disapproval.

There are many who say that having an abortion these days is too easy, that it is just a default mechanism for people who have not taken enough responsibility for themselves in the first place. Arguments rage over whether a foetus is a "person" from the moment it is conceived, or whether that process happens later. Some hard-line anti-abortionists will tell you that there is no real difference between getting rid of an unwanted pregnancy at eight weeks and at 24.

For most people, however, there is a difference. Babies born at 24 weeks can survive. As one caller to Radio 5 Live said, on the Victoria Derbyshire show on Tuesday morning: "What is the difference between aborting a baby at 24 weeks to someone giving birth to a live baby at 24 weeks and then killing it? That would be counted as murder." Another caller, a man in his fifties, rang to say that he had been born at 24 weeks and had miraculously survived. Also, his wife had had part of a bone missing in her skull and, had she been scanned in the womb, her parents would also have been encouraged to have a termination. "My wife's fine," he said. "She's a successful woman but neither of us would be here in this day and age."

However, there were many other poignant calls for women who opt for late terminations to be treated with sympathy. An anonymous male caller told of how his mother hadn't wanted him, but also hadn't wanted a termination. As soon as he was born, he was put into foster care and grew up going from one home to another. "Sometimes," he said, "I wish I hadn't been born, I feel that unwanted."

The conclusion is that, in an ideal society, we would all be ultra-responsible about contraception, both men and women, and that this contraception would be foolproof. Yet life doesn't work like that.

Young girls don't expect to get pregnant. Married women with children don't expect to get pregnant, either. How many times do you hear the words "I can't believe it. It was just once"? Yes, of course we should all be aware that having sex potentially leads to having a baby, but who seriously thinks about this in the throes of passion?

Some married-with-children couples are so overawed by the fact that they've managed to find the time and energy to make love, thoughts of super-gluing a condom on go out of the window. Another friend of mine swears she got pregnant by "leakage and seepage", so even the withdrawal method, so favoured by the long-time married, is not a safe option.

Should a family already battered and torn and on the breadline be forced into having another child when they really don't want one?

As a society we can't close our eyes to this. It is not a perfect world. Our abortion laws have to reflect this. Think about it. When you are sitting on the Tube, a woman near you has had an abortion, ditto in the office, in the supermarket queue, the cinema, the art gallery, the museum, at the bus stop, everywhere.

We are ubiquitous and yet unknown, unseen. We do not have to wear a badge of shame because we all made the choice not to have a child. It is an everyday event and, as a society, we need to learn to understand that.



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: abortion; babies; baby; deadbabies; death; deathofthewest; humanbeings; humans; killingbabies; life; moralabsolutes; mothersday; postabortivewomen; prolife; stuckonstupid
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We do not have to wear a badge of shame because we all made the choice not to have a child. It is an everyday event and, as a society, we need to learn to understand that.

NO! Society DOES NOT have to condone or "understand" your selfishness.

1 posted on 05/11/2008 11:48:33 AM PDT by wagglebee
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To: cgk; Coleus; cpforlife.org; narses; 8mmMauser

Pro-Life Ping


2 posted on 05/11/2008 11:49:06 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
It is an everyday event and, as a society, we need to learn to understand that.

It is indeed an everyday event, as slavery was throughout the world until little more than 100 years ago.

The frequency of a practice has no relationship whatsoever to its morality.

3 posted on 05/11/2008 11:51:11 AM PDT by Sherman Logan (Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - A. Lincoln)
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To: 230FMJ; 50mm; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; An American In Dairyland; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


4 posted on 05/11/2008 11:51:34 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

>>Virtually every woman I know of my generation has had an abortion.<<

Stopped right there.


5 posted on 05/11/2008 11:52:08 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am very mad at Disney. Give me my James Marsden song!!!!!)
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To: Sherman Logan

“It is an everyday event and, as a society, we need to learn to understand that.”

So is murder lady, should society “understand that”?


6 posted on 05/11/2008 11:53:38 AM PDT by traderrob6
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To: wagglebee
Why I chose abortion twice

Pity Frau Cavendish's mother didn't choose a well-timed abortion also.

7 posted on 05/11/2008 11:54:03 AM PDT by E. Cartman (Ronald Reagan's single biggest mistake: Picking Poppy Bush to be his veep.)
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To: netmilsmom

Not only that she is a liar!


8 posted on 05/11/2008 11:57:06 AM PDT by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: wagglebee

I have often wondered about the emotions of surviving children of mothers who “share” their abortion experiences with them.

I can’t imagine a more horrific feeling than knowing my mother had gotten rid of my siblings.


9 posted on 05/11/2008 11:58:10 AM PDT by Mrs.Z ("...you're a Democrat. You're expected to complain and offer no solutions." Denny Crane)
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To: wagglebee

When this nation finally comes to its senses and overturns Roe v. Wade it will be necessary for all states to pass laws not only making abortion illegal but also stiff prison time penalties for both the doctor who performs the abortion and the woman who elects to murder her baby.


10 posted on 05/11/2008 11:58:27 AM PDT by trumandogz ("He is erratic. He is hotheaded. He loses his temper and it worries me." Sen Cochran on McCain)
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To: wagglebee
We are sometimes made to feel that we are murdering our unborn babies and acting immorally.

Imagine that.

She should have said "think" though. Idiot liberals-- as if to "feel" is to let oneself off the hook.

11 posted on 05/11/2008 11:58:28 AM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: netmilsmom
Virtually every woman I know of my generation has had an abortion.

Perhaps she should start meeting women who are not as selfish and immoral as her, church would be a great place to start.

12 posted on 05/11/2008 12:00:15 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Methinks the lady doth protest too much. I tied my shoes this morning. It is an everyday occurrence for which I feel no guilt. Oddly enough, I’m not going to write an article about it.


13 posted on 05/11/2008 12:00:42 PM PDT by caspera
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To: wagglebee

Women don’t admit to it who have had them. It is shameful that is why. It is not like I’m having a tooth extracted, it is more like I’m having my child sucked into a sink.


14 posted on 05/11/2008 12:02:25 PM PDT by television is just wrong
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To: wagglebee
...because we all made the choice not to have a child.

Lucy, you made a choice to kill a living human being who was not given a choice in the matter.

15 posted on 05/11/2008 12:08:25 PM PDT by windsorknot
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To: wagglebee
It is alive in the way that an eight-week-old blob is not.

Sad. The entire article seems to be a rationalization that what she did was ok, because she did it early.

I do agree with one part though. There are a lot of women that are grieving and hurting silently. They need support. Not the "its ok. Everyone does it support , but that God forgives and heals support".

16 posted on 05/11/2008 12:10:23 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: wagglebee
Sex is how we invite a guest into a woman's body.

Abortion is deadly to our guests.

17 posted on 05/11/2008 12:10:38 PM PDT by fproy2222 ( Jesus is the Christ)
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To: wagglebee

Keywords “boyfriend” and “wasn’t interested”. Maybe the place to start would be by choosing better men, and getting the ring first.

“WE” are not responsible for your lack of integrity, lady.


18 posted on 05/11/2008 12:11:30 PM PDT by Ellendra (If you do not like the values of the west -see the first amendment- you are free to leave.)
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To: wagglebee
... even my committed boyfriend looked surprised when I asked him what he thought we ought to do about my being pregnant

"Committed boyfriend"? You're living in the Twilight Zone, sweetie, and you don't even realize it. Even putting aside the issue of her and her acquaintances' abortions, who ARE these insane people? Are they all on drugs?

19 posted on 05/11/2008 12:18:11 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Yes, but how does that help?)
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To: wagglebee
We do not have to wear a badge of shame because we all made the choice not to have a child. It is an everyday event and, as a society, we need to learn to understand that.

Happy Mothers Day Lucy...oh thats right! You murdered your children because of the inconvenience. Nothing to be shamed about that huh?

20 posted on 05/11/2008 12:20:13 PM PDT by Bommer (There's an (R) next to his name! I must trash my principles & beliefs and vote for the (R)!)
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To: Ellendra

None of these articles seem to give any weight to the impact on a man, there are men who want to be fathers and would be happy to marry their partner, but are turned down and suffer badly. For some..it is the first time that they realize that the women of their dreams is not the person they hoped.
Some of those men even end up in counseling and many break off the relationship when they find that their “modern” women is not really interested in a family.


21 posted on 05/11/2008 12:22:01 PM PDT by Oldexpat
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To: wagglebee
We are sometimes made to feel that we are murdering our unborn babies and acting immorally. We are snubbing life – not just life, a baby's life.

This is God talking to you, lady.

And you are displaying how calloused the human heart can be when it comes to actually listening to His voice.

And, these days, babies in the womb have been given faces, names and characteristics through sophisticated technologies such as 3-D scanning. The implication is that a woman has got pregnant because she is an irresponsible, selfish slut who doesn't care about the life of her unborn child and cares only for herself.

Convicted out of your own mouth.

22 posted on 05/11/2008 12:23:20 PM PDT by EternalVigilance ("Politics is in the truest sense the business of the citizen." - Alan Keyes)
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To: wagglebee

I’d hate to be this lady’s psychiatrist, cause this is a terminal mentally ill woman.


23 posted on 05/11/2008 12:25:02 PM PDT by JohnLongIsland
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To: wagglebee
Virtually every woman I know of my generation has had an abortion.

Dear, that's because you and "everyone you know" were slutty hippie tramps in your youth. Now you are angry, childless fem-hags. Soon you will all be bitter, lonely old ladies. And then you will die unloved, and your cats will eat you.

-ccm

24 posted on 05/11/2008 12:25:15 PM PDT by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order.)
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To: wagglebee

Somehow I dont think that her excuses are going to matter on judgement day.


25 posted on 05/11/2008 12:26:38 PM PDT by Species8472 (Life is sexually transmitted)
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To: wagglebee
Virtually every woman I know of my generation has had an abortion

******************

I don't believe it.

26 posted on 05/11/2008 12:27:11 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: ccmay

Great response!


27 posted on 05/11/2008 12:28:30 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Mrs.Z
I can’t imagine a more horrific feeling than knowing my mother had gotten rid of my siblings.

My mother suffered a miscarriage after I was born. She told me about it when I was ten or twelve. In my mind, he became the little brother I never had, and my heart ached for him. If I had known she did it on purpose, I wonder if our relationship could ever have recovered from the shock and horror.

28 posted on 05/11/2008 12:28:48 PM PDT by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order.)
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To: ccmay

Sounds like Bette Davis...


29 posted on 05/11/2008 12:29:27 PM PDT by Guenevere (If you do not stand firm in your faith, you will not stand at all.)
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To: trisham

I do, it just means that EVERY woman she knows is a selfish and immoral tramp. What she needs to do is go to church and meet some virtuous women.


30 posted on 05/11/2008 12:30:04 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: NYer; Salvation

Ping.


31 posted on 05/11/2008 12:30:47 PM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007 (Look at all the candidates. Choose who you think is best. Choose wisely in 2008.)
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To: wagglebee

Accept no responsibility for the fact that I got pregant when it’s so simple to just walk away.

Next comes murdering those who are not able to be cured and their care would cost to much.

Will the next step be that all buled eyed babies or adults are to be eliminated?


32 posted on 05/11/2008 12:30:56 PM PDT by chiefqc
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To: caspera

Caspera, you’ve nailed it. I think the Holy Spirit is working on this woman. She knows in her heart of hearts, as every woman does (God implants the natural law into every person’s heart, religious or not) She is experiencing guilt and is in denial, NO DOUBT. We all need to pray for her, she can’t escape her conscience, no matter how hard she tries by writing a discertaion.

God, heal this woman, bring her out of denial, let her accept your forgiveness and step into the light. IN JESUS NAME


33 posted on 05/11/2008 12:34:34 PM PDT by SaintDismas (.)
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To: wagglebee

She’d probably call a soldier a “baby killer” and not bat an eye.


34 posted on 05/11/2008 12:34:56 PM PDT by hometoroost (...the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo)
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To: wagglebee
That may be, but it's my impression that the numbers reflect multiple abortions by some women. I have had two women confide in me that they each had five abortions. It's incomprehensible to me.
35 posted on 05/11/2008 12:36:01 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: wagglebee
There seems to be no coming together of women in solidarity over abortion. Women unite to help when a battered wife leaves a husband or a wife and mother is abandoned by a husband or lover, but on the issue of abortion there is a resounding silence.

Thats because deep down inside, the vast majority of women KNOW that having an abortion is WRONG. Something knaws at them, its called SHAME, and I say that as someone who is not neccessarily "anti-choice".

36 posted on 05/11/2008 12:36:26 PM PDT by Paradox (Politics: The art of convincing the populace that your delusions are superior to others.)
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To: trisham

My guess is that women of all races, ethnic groups, income levels, religions and political affiliations have murder their children by abortion. And we must understand that this epidemic of mass murder will not cease until we as a society have the strength to overturn Roe and convict women who abort their babies of murder.


37 posted on 05/11/2008 12:41:12 PM PDT by trumandogz ("He is erratic. He is hotheaded. He loses his temper and it worries me." Sen Cochran on McCain)
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To: trumandogz

I’m afraid it’s going to take some doing to accomplish that.


38 posted on 05/11/2008 12:45:27 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Sherman Logan

Bingo.


39 posted on 05/11/2008 12:46:45 PM PDT by hershey
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To: wagglebee
We are sometimes made to feel that we are murdering our unborn babies and acting immorally. We are snubbing life – not just life, a baby's life.

Well if the shoe fits...

40 posted on 05/11/2008 12:46:46 PM PDT by Tammy8 (Please Support and pray for our Troops, as they serve us every day.)
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To: netmilsmom
>>Virtually every woman I know of my generation has had an abortion.<< Stopped right there.

Exactly the place I stopped, too.

41 posted on 05/11/2008 12:48:16 PM PDT by digger48 (http://prorev.com/legacy.htm)
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To: netmilsmom
Well that stopped me too- but I realized she may be right about every women she knows. They say you are known by the company you keep.
42 posted on 05/11/2008 12:48:20 PM PDT by Tammy8 (Please Support and pray for our Troops, as they serve us every day.)
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To: wagglebee
There seems to be no coming together of women in solidarity over abortion. Women unite to help when a battered wife leaves a husband or a wife and mother is abandoned by a husband or lover, but on the issue of abortion there is a resounding silence. We don't swap stories over the dinner table. We do not nod in sympathy.

Of course not, mankind (speaking generically of both men and women) likes to hide its own sinfulness. There really is no confusion over the issue of abortion, everyone knows that the 'fetus' is alive and that aborting it is killing a human being. The only difference is that some people care while others don't.

43 posted on 05/11/2008 12:49:07 PM PDT by eclecticEel (You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.)
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To: wagglebee
"And I do not regret it. I don't lie awake wondering what these foetuses would have grown into or how old they would be now or any of that stuff. For a while afterwards, on the odd occasion, I did. It would have helped, I think, to have been able to speak to someone about it."

It would have helped to speak to someone about it?

Somebody like yourself to assure you that it was just fine to get rid of the 'fetuses' & never have to think about them again?

There will be a day of judgement where you will have that chance to speak.

You don't lie awake thinking about all that stuff??

The very fact that you feel the need to write about it now - after all that time has passed makes me believe that in your soul - you know that these children you carried next to your heart & killed...will never let you get it out of your mind.

44 posted on 05/11/2008 12:50:50 PM PDT by LADY J
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To: wagglebee

“We are sometimes made to feel that we are murdering our unborn babies and acting immorally.”

That’s because you ARE, you stupid cow.


45 posted on 05/11/2008 12:51:55 PM PDT by Xenalyte (Can you count, suckas? I say the future is ours . . . if you can count.)
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To: wagglebee
The implication is that a woman has got pregnant because she is an irresponsible, selfish slut who doesn't care about the life of her unborn child and cares only for herself.

If the shoe fits...

46 posted on 05/11/2008 12:52:14 PM PDT by Alouette (Vicious Babushka)
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To: hinckley buzzard

Most women don’t think. They feel. They THINK they’re thinking, but they’re not.

That’s why most of my friends are men.


47 posted on 05/11/2008 12:53:13 PM PDT by Xenalyte (Can you count, suckas? I say the future is ours . . . if you can count.)
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To: digger48
Virtually every woman I know of my generation has had an abortion.<< Stopped right there.

She must believe that to justify what she did was normal and ok. I usually just skip these articles but this person..if there is a Lucy or someone else's thoughs...is fighting a battle within herself. Pray for her and the others like her.

48 posted on 05/11/2008 12:54:35 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: wagglebee
Lucy Cavendish = Murderer and Slut
49 posted on 05/11/2008 12:56:35 PM PDT by OKIEDOC (Kalifornia, a red state wannabe. I don't take Ex Lax I just read the New York Times.)
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To: wagglebee
We are sometimes made to feel that we are murdering our unborn babies and acting immorally.

Maybe because you are?

50 posted on 05/11/2008 12:56:41 PM PDT by ikka
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