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Canton Council proposes jail time for tall grass
The Canton Repository ^ | 5/20/08 | Ed Balint

Posted on 05/20/2008 8:51:48 AM PDT by traviskicks

CANTON For residents tired of that overgrown lot that resembles a minijungle next door, the city wants to help by trying to put high-grass violators behind bars.

City Council wants to beef up its existing high-grass and weeds law by making a second offense a fourth-degree misdemeanor, which is punishable by a fine of up to $250 and up to 30 days in jail.

In the spring and summer, it's not uncommon for council members to field complaints from residents about overgrown lots owned by individuals or banks and corporations that ignore the law and notices in the mail.

More than 8 inches constitutes high grass or weeds, according to city law. First-time violators now face a minor misdemeanor, which carries up to a $150 fine and no jail time.

The proposed amendment passed second reading Monday night, and is up for passage at next Monday's council meeting.

Strengthening the law would give judges and police "a way to get their attention," Law Director Joseph Martuccio said of lawbreakers. More pressure also could be applied to lot owners and those responsible through letters, conferences and prosecutor's hearings, he said.

Service Director Thomas Bernabei initiated a review of the existing law. The city is responsible for mowing about 2,400 lots, he estimated at a committee meeting Monday night. Mowing the properties costs the city money, labor and time.

With the growing number of house foreclosures, high grass may be more problematic these days, Bernabei said. How long it takes the city to cut high grass depends on available workers and the number of complaints and lots, Bernabei said.

EQUAL ENFORCEMENT

If council would like a quicker response, it could allocate more money for labor and equipment, he said.

The city spends $225,000 to $250,000 a year on cutting overgrown lots, estimated Councilman Greg Hawk, D-1, who advocated taking a "hard line" on the issue.

Councilwoman Mary Cirelli, D-at large, said she supports the proposed legislation, but wants equal enforcement among residents and banks and corporations that own the unsightly properties.

Martuccio acknowledged it's more difficult to pursue a corporation or bank criminally. However, he said "theoretically" it can be done by following a paper trail to an individual responsible for that corporation.

Pursuing the most egregious high-grass violators "with vigor" could draw media attention, Bernabei said, and serve as a deterrent. Other potential punishments are community service hours spent cutting grass and seeking a court order garnishing someone's wages or issuing liens, he said.

MYERS AND MEADOWS HONORED

Also Monday night, City Council honored Capt. James Myers of the Police Department with an informal resolution. Myers spent about 40 years with the department, initiating various programs, including the polygraph and canine units. Police Chief Dean McKimm also honored Myers with a plaque for his service, and commended Capt. Bruce Allison, who retired recently.

Last week, council honored Melvyn Meadows, who is retiring as the superintendent of the sanitation department. Meadows started his career with the department in 1983.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: jbts

1 posted on 05/20/2008 8:54:16 AM PDT by traviskicks
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To: Abathar; Abcdefg; Abram; Abundy; akatel; albertp; AlexandriaDuke; Alexander Rubin; Allerious; ...


Libertarian ping! To be added or removed freepmail me or post a message here.
2 posted on 05/20/2008 8:55:19 AM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: traviskicks

I guess Canton has no illegal immigrant rapists or murderers, Mooselimbs run amok, or garden-variety dope dealers to jail; so they prosecute people that don’t want to cut the grass to fill their jail.

Just d@mn!


3 posted on 05/20/2008 9:01:41 AM PDT by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: grellis

For the MI ping list.....


4 posted on 05/20/2008 9:04:58 AM PDT by CSM (Kakistocracy: Government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens.)
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To: traviskicks

It’s been raining for three weeks. We haven’t been able to mow our grass. ONE of us is going down for this!

I’LL take the rap, baby. You need to be there for the kids.


5 posted on 05/20/2008 9:07:09 AM PDT by WayneS (Feed a Polar Bear -- Club a Seal!)
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To: traviskicks

Lawn mowing contributes to Global Warming.

Not just the fuel burned by the mower, but the decomposition process of the mown grass releases Carbon in various forms into the environment.

Let’s see the PC bastardos counter THAT!


6 posted on 05/20/2008 9:09:29 AM PDT by WayneS (Feed a Polar Bear -- Club a Seal!)
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To: Springman; sergeantdave; cyclotic; netmilsmom; RatsDawg; PGalt; FreedomHammer; queenkathy; ...
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

If you would like to be added or dropped from the Michigan ping list, please freepmail me.

Beyond excessive. Even for the tenth complaint, jail time would be beyond excessive.

And yet we're closing prisons, fcol!

7 posted on 05/20/2008 9:17:43 AM PDT by grellis (By order of the Ingham County Sheriff this tag has been seized for nonpayment of taxes)
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To: traviskicks

the criminalization of our society continues little by little........


8 posted on 05/20/2008 9:24:35 AM PDT by tatsinfla
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To: traviskicks

A “Crime” is defined as whatever the politicians decide to prosecute. It doesn’t have to be something that actually INJURES anyone.


9 posted on 05/20/2008 9:28:04 AM PDT by Leftism is Mentally Deranged (liberalism is a serious mental disturbance)
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To: WayneS

get a couple of sheep


10 posted on 05/20/2008 9:29:02 AM PDT by woollyone (100rnds bought per week adds up to over 5000 rounds gathered in a year...just saying!)
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To: traviskicks; sit-rep; Squantos; Eaker

I think tall grass should be jailed, too. Never did trust it.


11 posted on 05/20/2008 9:36:54 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: woollyone

Zoning ordinances against livestock on parcels less than 5 acres, you know...


12 posted on 05/20/2008 9:38:48 AM PDT by WayneS (Feed a Polar Bear -- Club a Seal!)
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To: grellis

Looks like this is Canton, Ohio not Canton, Michigan.


13 posted on 05/20/2008 9:41:16 AM PDT by stayathomemom
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To: stayathomemom; grellis

Oops, my bad. I apologize for the confusion.


14 posted on 05/20/2008 9:53:45 AM PDT by CSM (Kakistocracy: Government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens.)
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To: traviskicks

15 posted on 05/20/2008 10:04:35 AM PDT by mikey_hates_everything
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To: WayneS

Can’t be!

The neighbors are cows and the landlord is a real pig!

In all seriousness...
I’m thinking about a back yard garden and planting mere ground cover in the front yard. The lawn chores and expense is annoying me. And with the watering restricitons, who can keep a lawn nice?

We had a pastor form Liberia visit our church a few years back. He said the thing that most astounded him was our lawns. It was difficult for him to understand how we could spend so much energy and money on a plant we couldn’t even eat. Seemed like a waste. His people, wiht the same resources would all have gardens in the yard.

Just a random thought to share.


16 posted on 05/20/2008 10:10:57 AM PDT by woollyone (100rnds bought per week adds up to over 5000 rounds gathered in a year...just saying!)
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To: traviskicks

Do the words “private property” have any residual legal meaning these days?


17 posted on 05/20/2008 10:14:00 AM PDT by andy58-in-nh (Peace Is Not The Question.)
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To: traviskicks

Around here, we call them “Lawn Nazis”............


18 posted on 05/20/2008 10:15:49 AM PDT by Red Badger ( We don't have science, but we do have consensus.......)
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To: tatsinfla
"Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against - then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt. Now, that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."
19 posted on 05/20/2008 10:16:34 AM PDT by andy58-in-nh (Peace Is Not The Question.)
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To: andy58-in-nh

Yes. The residual meaning is that as the owner of the “private property”, you have the “right” to pay property taxes on it.

That’s about it, though.


20 posted on 05/20/2008 10:38:04 AM PDT by WayneS (Feed a Polar Bear -- Club a Seal!)
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To: Leftism is Mentally Deranged
It doesn’t have to be something that actually INJURES anyone.

In this situation, the tall grass does injure people. Tall grass is a breeding ground for vermin and other pests that can cause health problems for neighbors or, potentially, property damage.

21 posted on 05/20/2008 10:44:26 AM PDT by Publius Valerius
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To: Larry Lucido; Squantos; Eaker

Just Damn!!

Led away in shackles for not mowin’ the lawn...

The fore fathers are doin the twist!


22 posted on 05/20/2008 12:01:41 PM PDT by sit-rep
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To: traviskicks
And here's the type of guy who might be out in your front lawn with a tape measure:

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

The BTK killer was a compliance officer in Park City, KS. Here's one account of how he allegedly used local ordinances to harrass a local woman and drive her out of town: http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/1524417.html

23 posted on 05/20/2008 1:08:53 PM PDT by ellery (In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock -T. Jefferson)
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To: ellery

wow, that is a great find, talk about bureaucrats gone wild!


24 posted on 05/20/2008 2:20:40 PM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: sit-rep

Hold the city too the same standards..........they can’t afford too comply !!!


25 posted on 05/20/2008 2:54:09 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: clee1

In Texas you go to jail just for being possession of grass even when it is less than an ounce. They don’t wait until it is two feet tall to arrest you. /sarcasm


26 posted on 05/20/2008 3:06:21 PM PDT by Clump (Your family may not be safe, but at least their library records will be.)
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To: CSM

Sure sounds stoopit enough to be Michigan, easy mistake to make!


27 posted on 05/20/2008 3:43:22 PM PDT by grellis (By order of the Ingham County Sheriff this tag has been seized for nonpayment of taxes)
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To: woollyone
We have a typical downtown postage stamp property, 44' by 97'. I realized early on that taking care of a small patch of lawn is just as big a pain in the butt as a big yard. We started taking out all of the grass from the front yard about ten years ago, and we've been replacing it with perennials, vegetables and a few annuals ever since. It's lovely, and so much more rewarding than just plain grass! It gets prettier every year.

We struggle to keep grass in our backyard for the kids to play on. It's densely shaded, we have an enormous dog, and we have grubs that stand up to dang near anything. Huge pain. If it weren't for the kids, I'd get rid of it all in a heartbeat.

28 posted on 05/20/2008 3:51:21 PM PDT by grellis (By order of the Ingham County Sheriff this tag has been seized for nonpayment of taxes)
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To: andy58-in-nh
Do the words “private property” have any residual legal meaning these days?

No. Just asking the question is a misdemeanor. 

29 posted on 05/20/2008 8:14:07 PM PDT by zeugma (Mark Steyn For Global Dictator!)
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To: traviskicks
Fine with me.

These citizens should be jailed for electing a bunch of jackasses.

30 posted on 05/20/2008 9:25:49 PM PDT by elkfersupper
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To: Publius Valerius; WayneS; traviskicks; clee1; tatsinfla; Leftism is Mentally Deranged; woollyone; ..
Tall grass is a breeding ground for vermin and other pests that can cause health problems for neighbors or, potentially, property damage.

Good point.

But jail time sounds excessive. Better to mow and add the cost to the property tax bill.

31 posted on 05/21/2008 3:13:39 PM PDT by secretagent ((editorial question))
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To: Publius Valerius; secretagent
Late last summer my city's ground crew was in my neighborhood mowing all of the "lawns" that had gone over 8 inches. In one, they mowed over a nest of a dozen ratlings. No sign of the mother, she probably took off at the sound of the mower, and has probably had another five or six litters since.

The city charges $50 a pop for a typical postage stamp (50 x 100) in my neighborhood, and they have gone over $100 for the larger props. I really should offer my mowing services to the realtors representing all the vacant props around here. Even with the price of gas being high, I could easily make a couple hundred bucks a month for a very small investment of time.

32 posted on 05/21/2008 4:10:39 PM PDT by grellis (By order of the Ingham County Sheriff this tag has been seized for nonpayment of taxes)
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To: grellis

Your city charges very reasonable rates. Mulch in place?

Thanks illustrating the threat posed by tall grass in city lots.


33 posted on 05/21/2008 4:23:59 PM PDT by secretagent ((editorial question))
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To: secretagent

What the city charges is insane when you consider that the local kids will do it for $5 a yard, regardless of size.


34 posted on 05/21/2008 4:37:04 PM PDT by grellis (By order of the Ingham County Sheriff this tag has been seized for nonpayment of taxes)
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To: secretagent; grellis
But jail time sounds excessive.

I'd tend to agree, at least on first offenses. As far as adding the amount goes, I also think $50 is pretty reasonable, given the energy the city would have to invest in monitoring and then sending crews to cut grass.

But Grellis raises an interesting point; perhaps there is room for the government to privatize this particular operation.

35 posted on 05/22/2008 4:34:08 AM PDT by Publius Valerius
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To: andy58-in-nh

The best post on this yet.

And it was written what, about 50 years ago?


36 posted on 05/22/2008 5:25:43 AM PDT by WayneS (What the hell is wrong with these people?)
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To: WayneS
Atlas Shrugged was published in 1957, and every year that passes makes it look more prophetic. Although Ayn Rand could not have predicted the technological revolution that has changed our lives in so many ways, her grasp of human nature and of philosophy allowed her to see that some things never change. The people who wanted to govern every aspect of your life in the 1950s are the same sort of people who wish to do so today.
37 posted on 05/22/2008 5:37:08 AM PDT by andy58-in-nh (Peace Is Not The Question.)
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To: grellis
What the city charges is insane when you consider that the local kids will do it for $5 a yard, regardless of size.

Maybe when these guys were on TV! Where I live, I can't find any willing to leave their gaming (WIii, Nintendo,PSP, et al) long enough...


38 posted on 05/22/2008 5:41:37 AM PDT by WVKayaker ( "Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome..." I. Asimov)
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To: andy58-in-nh

Yes.

Our government/society is becoming a “morphing” of Atlas Shrugged and Orwell’s 1983, with bits of Anthony Burgess’ Clockwork Orange and The Wanting Seed thrown in for bad measure.


39 posted on 05/22/2008 5:54:35 AM PDT by WayneS (What the hell is wrong with these people?)
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To: WayneS

...or maybe 1984?


40 posted on 05/22/2008 5:54:55 AM PDT by WayneS (What the hell is wrong with these people?)
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To: andy58-in-nh

...or maybe 1984...


41 posted on 05/22/2008 5:55:37 AM PDT by WayneS (What the hell is wrong with these people?)
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To: WayneS

So, “1984” was the sequel? ;-)


42 posted on 05/22/2008 6:00:58 AM PDT by andy58-in-nh (Peace Is Not The Question.)
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To: andy58-in-nh

Actually, the Ministry of Truth just issued an edict: Every event in that entire story happened one year earlier than was originally reported by the crime-thinking enemy of the state, Orwell. Original manuscripts of “1984” are being burned even as I write this. By sundown no one will even remember that the book existed.

On the other hand, it’s probably just a testament to my fumble-fingered typing skills.


43 posted on 05/22/2008 6:59:27 AM PDT by WayneS (What the hell is wrong with these people?)
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