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Miller wants shooting ranges shut down
TheStar.com ^ | May 27, 2008 | John Spears & Robert Benzie

Posted on 05/27/2008 8:22:14 AM PDT by neverdem

Mayor David Miller wants to close recreational shooting ranges in Toronto, along with giving the city power to block gun manufacturers and wholesalers from opening new plants or warehouses.

"Nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of our city," Miller said of sport shooting yesterday, amid debate on a possible gun bylaw.

Canadian Olympic pistol shooter and downtown resident Avianna Chao begs to differ. She says that if Miller gets his way, it could mean an end to her sport – and it won't make the streets one bit safer.

Miller wants to terminate leases with two gun clubs that have shooting ranges on city property, one at Union Station, the other at Don Montgomery community centre.

Chao, who will head to Beijing this summer to compete for Canada at the Olympics, began shooting at Don Montgomery and now trains primarily at the Union range.

"When I heard about this city proposal today it just absolutely knocked the wind out of me," Chao said yesterday.

The gun debate erupted on a day when provincial Attorney General Chris Bentley and Community Safety Minister Rick Bartolucci were writing to their federal counterparts, seeking co-operation on curbing firearm violence.

"As you know, the people of Ontario continue to have serious concerns about the threat posed by guns and gun-related crime in our communities, particularly on the streets of downtown Toronto," Bentley and Bartolucci wrote in a five-page letter to federal Attorney General Rob Nicholson and Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day.

They asked for a three-point plan to limit gun violence by:

At the same time, city staff released a report calling for a bylaw that would allow the city to restrict or prohibit the making and wholesaling of firearms in Toronto.

Only police and the military should be allowed to operate firing ranges, the report says, calling for an end to the gun club leases.

Recommendations would apply to all firearms, including rifles and shotguns. But in a scrum with reporters, Miller directed most of his comments toward handguns.

"After John O'Keefe's tragic killing, I don't think there's any defence for sports shooters any more," Miller said, referring to the man shot in January by a stray bullet. The gun was legally owned by the man charged in the killing.

"It's a hobby that creates danger to others. Guns are stolen routinely from so-called legal owners. It's time that we got those guns out of Toronto," he said.

"Do we as a society value safety, or do we value a hobby that creates danger?" he asked. "Nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of our city. Those are the facts. And they're provable again and again and again."

Existing makers and wholesalers of firearms would not be affected by any new bylaw. Nor would retailers, as they're governed by federal law. The staff report says as many as 40 per cent of handguns seized by Toronto police were legally purchased but stolen from their owners.

But Chao said shutting down shooting ranges and banning manufacturers has nothing to do with safety. "Gang members don't visit these (shooting) clubs," she said.

"You have to show your licence and all the paperwork. This has nothing to do with gang violence."

Her own guns are safely stored and locked, she said. She's never had a gun stolen. "Anyone should be able to see through this," she said, "that this is the politicians just trying to say they did something, even though it will have no impact on actual gun violence. ... Why don't they go after the gangs? Why don't they go after the illegal trafficking of firearms?"

Chao said Canadian shooters are already handicapped compared with competitors because other countries let shooters train full time. If ranges are shut down, she said, "I don't know how we're expected to compete internationally."

Steven Spinney, firearms safety officer for the Scarborough Rifle Club, was also stunned by the news.

"It doesn't make any sense to be zeroing in on a gun club," he said. "We're an Olympic sport ... I'm not sure how shutting us down would help to cut the gun crime."

Participants are required to take a safety course and the club uses only single-shot rifles.

With files from Vanessa Lu




TOPICS: Canada; Crime/Corruption; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: banglist
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1 posted on 05/27/2008 8:22:14 AM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem
"Nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of our city," Miller said of sport shooting

Lemme guess: the science is settled and we have consensus...

2 posted on 05/27/2008 8:23:29 AM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: fanfan
BANG!
4 posted on 05/27/2008 8:24:08 AM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
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To: neverdem
"Nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of our city," Miller said of sport shooting

I'm sure he has ample evidence that sport shooters are on the rampage...

5 posted on 05/27/2008 8:24:52 AM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: neverdem
That's put the lie to the notion that those who want to ban guns don't want to go after hunters and recreational shooting enthusiasts. They hate all gun owners, period.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

6 posted on 05/27/2008 8:24:52 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: neverdem
"Nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of our city," Miller said of sport shooting yesterday, amid debate on a possible gun bylaw.

It's true! Every Rod and Gun Club is full of drooling murderers!

7 posted on 05/27/2008 8:26:29 AM PDT by metesky ("Brethren, leave us go amongst them." Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton - Ward Bond- The Searchers)
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To: Izzy Dunne
I guess in David Miller's twisted mind, there's a connection between shooting at a gun range and shooting at innocent by-standers on a city street. Yeah, that makes sense, alright.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

8 posted on 05/27/2008 8:26:45 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: neverdem

“Nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of our city,” Miller said...

Consider it DENIED, Mr. Miller...

See, someone CAN deny it...


9 posted on 05/27/2008 8:26:45 AM PDT by WayneS (What the hell is wrong with these people?)
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To: neverdem
Wait wait, I thought St. Moore told us all that Canadians have no gun crime and they all leave their houses unlocked because it's so safe and friendly.

All this “gang violence” must be a media invention...

10 posted on 05/27/2008 8:30:24 AM PDT by Shion (Ukemi: The art of throwing yourself at the ground for no particular reason.)
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To: neverdem

Yeah, you see a lot of Toronto gangbangers walking around carrying match-grade single-shot .22 rifles... (/eyeroll)

}:-)4


11 posted on 05/27/2008 8:31:07 AM PDT by Moose4 (http://moosedroppings.wordpress.com -- Because 20 million self-important blogs just aren't enough.)
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To: Izzy Dunne
I'm sure he has ample evidence that sport shooters are on the rampage...

This moron mayor's statement is the equivalent to saying, " Nobody can deny skeet shooting leads to violent crime."

12 posted on 05/27/2008 8:31:40 AM PDT by A message
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To: neverdem
"Nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of our city," Miller said

Sooooo, I guess the car racing hobby ALSO results in people being killed in the streets so let's ban cars, too!!

13 posted on 05/27/2008 8:32:26 AM PDT by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: neverdem

We just hosted two Canadian Scouts from the Toronto area this weekend. One of them really wanted to go target shooting with us, because it’s so unavailable at home. Unfortunately, it didn’t work out because the boys were simply too tired after their campout, and my husband was concerned about safety. However, he showed them our weapons, which they appreciated. I had some great conversations with the older boy (14), who is entirely disgusted with the many restrictions, group-think, and political correctness that have evolved in Canada. I got a kick out of one of his T-shirts: “THINK - It’s Still Legal”.


14 posted on 05/27/2008 8:34:30 AM PDT by Think free or die
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To: neverdem

Everybody knows if we can just get rid of all the guns, crime will disappear. Don’t they?


15 posted on 05/27/2008 8:36:49 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: neverdem
"Do we as a society value safety, or do we value a hobby that creates danger?"

Are you going to shut down those killer roller coasters, Mr.Mayor?

16 posted on 05/27/2008 8:39:33 AM PDT by Free State Four
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To: neverdem
"Nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of our city,"

Meanwhile, over in Montreal, they rioted when the Canadiens got into the playoffs this year. Toronto? No playoffs for them, and probably not anytime soon. Why? Well, look at their mayor! The Leafs got no shooters, no snipers.

On a more serious note, I guess the message here is, in Canada, gun ownership is a hobby. In the USA, gun ownership is a right.

17 posted on 05/27/2008 8:40:17 AM PDT by kittycatonline.com
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To: JackRyanCIA

“It’s all happening so fast.”

Cop: “Mr. Sloth, witnesses say you were attacked by a gang of armed snails?
Can you add anything to that for my report?”

“Gee, officer .. I dunno .. it all .. happened.. so .. fast.”


18 posted on 05/27/2008 8:41:39 AM PDT by tumblindice
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To: neverdem
Mayor Miller:

Thank you for making the streets safer for us!

The CRIMINALS

19 posted on 05/27/2008 8:42:08 AM PDT by EagleandLiberty (El Rushbo Tribal name -- RinoHunter Coming Soon - a new CONSERVATIVE PARTY --- www.falconparty.com)
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To: neverdem
"Nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of our city," Miller said of sport shooting yesterday.

Hey Miller. You freaking fishbrain.

Sport shooting directly results in little holes in paper targets, and sometimes a trophy.

CRIME results in people being shot and killed on the streets of Toronto.

But you knew that already.

20 posted on 05/27/2008 8:42:34 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Secondhand Aztlan Smoke causes drug addiction obesity in global warming cancer immigrant terrorists.)
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To: neverdem

As I recall, Mayor Miller and his police chief Bill Blair thought having a Guardian Angels Patrol in Toronto was a bad idea.

This, to me, says it all about Mayor Miller. This anti-gun nonsense seals it nicely.


21 posted on 05/27/2008 8:44:28 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: neverdem

Mayor Miller wouldn’t have liked me on the weekend - I shot off about 200 rounds clay shooting. I’m a menace, I tell ya.


22 posted on 05/27/2008 8:45:56 AM PDT by Catholic Canadian ( I love Stephen Harper!)
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To: neverdem
Dear Toronto...

Your mayor is an ultra-liberal idiot....

Have a nice day!

23 posted on 05/27/2008 8:55:23 AM PDT by Wings-n-Wind (The main things are the plain things!)
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To: Think free or die
We just hosted two Canadian Scouts from the Toronto area this weekend. One of them really wanted to go target shooting with us, because it’s so unavailable at home.

Actually, it's not that it is unavailable - I was at two separate ranges on the weekend, not far outside Toronto - in fact, we had about 80 scouts up at the one club learning to shoot just last week. What it really is about is all the PC loony anti-gun nutters who are repulsed if the topic of sport shooting is even mentioned. I've lost count of the people who chastise my friends and I when talking about Skeet & Trap shooting - we're even ostracised for it in some circles.

24 posted on 05/27/2008 8:57:36 AM PDT by Catholic Canadian ( I love Stephen Harper!)
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To: neverdem
"Nobody can deny that CRIME directly results in UNARMED people being shot and killed on the streets of our city," Miller said of sport shooting yesterday, amid debate on a possible gun bylaw.

There. Fixed it.

25 posted on 05/27/2008 9:07:52 AM PDT by 50sDad (OBAMA: In your heart you know he's Wright.)
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To: neverdem

“It’s a hobby that creates danger to others. Guns are stolen routinely from so-called legal owners. It’s time that we got those guns out of Toronto,”

So-called legal owners?

By his logic, we could argue that so-called “elected” politicians have killed millions of people and therefore represent a danger to others.


26 posted on 05/27/2008 9:16:41 AM PDT by Hacklehead (Crush the liberals, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the hippies.)
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To: neverdem

“Nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of our city,” Miller said of sport shooting.

I can, and I do, you ignoramus.


27 posted on 05/27/2008 9:16:51 AM PDT by Jack Hammer (here)
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To: neverdem

How can people be so stupid?


28 posted on 05/27/2008 9:28:53 AM PDT by wastedyears (Like a bat outta Hell.)
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To: wastedyears
How can people be so stupid?

They try really hard!

29 posted on 05/27/2008 9:34:24 AM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
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To: neverdem
Whenever my son and daughter-in-law come down from Toronto, we always go outback and fire off some rounds. I now wonder if that mayor will force people to undergo paraffin tests before being allowed to return to Toronto?
30 posted on 05/27/2008 9:36:15 AM PDT by LRS
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To: neverdem

They probably pop blood vessels in their heads trying so hard.


31 posted on 05/27/2008 9:36:48 AM PDT by wastedyears (Like a bat outta Hell.)
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"Nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of our city,"

Of course it can be denied, you booger eating moron! If your assertion were true, then shooting ranges all over the country (yours and ours) would be flooded in blood.

Just because you imagine something is so doesn't make it that way.

Mark

32 posted on 05/27/2008 9:41:20 AM PDT by MarkL (Al Gore: The Greenhouse Gasbag! (heard on Bob Brinker's Money Talk))
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To: neverdem; GMMAC; Clive; exg; kanawa; conniew; backhoe; -YYZ-; Former Proud Canadian; Squawk 8888; ..

33 posted on 05/27/2008 10:03:12 AM PDT by fanfan ("We don't start fights my friends, but we finish them, and never leave until our work is done."PMSH)
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To: fanfan

“Oh Canada - Toronto has an IDIOT as a MAYOR, how did he get elected - did US Dems move there??” (Sung to ‘Oh Canada’)


34 posted on 05/27/2008 10:20:09 AM PDT by EagleandLiberty (El Rushbo Tribal name -- RinoHunter CominHg Soon - a new CONSERVATIVE PARTY --- www.falconparty.com)
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To: neverdem
block gun manufacturers

Hello Toronto, I'm EaL and I'm from the EaL Amory, I would like to employ 300 people and generate taxes for your city -- what, you don't want my $$$? Sorry, I'll move 5 miles to a city that'll welcome me.

Do you think the citizens would be upset at the mayor if a gun company refused to be allowed to build a factory - to get $$.

35 posted on 05/27/2008 10:24:58 AM PDT by EagleandLiberty (El Rushbo Tribal name -- RinoHunter CominHg Soon - a new CONSERVATIVE PARTY --- www.falconparty.com)
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To: WayneS

I second that denial...


36 posted on 05/27/2008 10:26:25 AM PDT by AprilfromTexas
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To: neverdem

I can’t believe the so-called “Mayor” insulting “so-called legal gun owners”!


37 posted on 05/27/2008 10:31:19 AM PDT by 2harddrive (...House a TOTAL Loss.....)
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To: WayneS

Toronto is plastered with posters saying “Diversity is our strength.”

Some of these very “diverse” people have been contributing significantly to the “strength” of firearms-related crime in Toronto.

But you’ll never hear a good progressive multiculturalist admit that much of Toronto’s gun crime originates, not in rifle clubs, but in the riffraff imported from Jamaica.


38 posted on 05/27/2008 10:34:16 AM PDT by Loyalist (Barrister & Solicitor of Her Majesty's Courts)
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To: Catholic Canadian
Only recipe I could find for clay Pigeons
Clay Pigeon Recipe

Ingredients:
2/3 a fluid ounce or 2 centilitres of Vodka
1/3 a fluid ounce or 1 centilitre of Apple Juice

Instructions:
Mix in a shot glass and serve.
39 posted on 05/27/2008 10:46:26 AM PDT by Foolsgold (after all we got Daschel)
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To: neverdem

Can this screwball be impeached or recalled by the voters???


40 posted on 05/27/2008 11:17:04 AM PDT by ridesthemiles
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To: ridesthemiles

Ask somebody from Toronto.


41 posted on 05/27/2008 12:22:07 PM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
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To: Jack Hammer
“Nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of our city,” Miller said of sport shooting.

There is no part of this statement that may be attributed to logic. It is purely emotional.

42 posted on 05/27/2008 12:35:27 PM PDT by Edgerunner (At the heart of every absurdity, lies a liberal lie)
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To: neverdem

“After John O’Keefe’s tragic killing, I don’t think there’s any defence for sports shooters any more,”

If we could just put those nasty gunowners in some work camps and.............


43 posted on 05/27/2008 2:06:49 PM PDT by headstamp 2 (Been here before)
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To: Izzy Dunne

None can deny that batting practice leads directly to people being beaten to death with bats! Driving schools lead directly to people being run over! Timber cutting leads directly to people being cut up with chain saws!


44 posted on 05/27/2008 2:11:51 PM PDT by RipSawyer (Does anyone still believe this is a free country?)
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To: EagleandLiberty

Good job!

BTW, the answer is yes.


45 posted on 05/27/2008 2:27:28 PM PDT by fanfan ("We don't start fights my friends, but we finish them, and never leave until our work is done."PMSH)
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To: JackRyanCIA
Mayor David Miller is actually a macabre character from a Stephen King nover, who has been given temporary life here in our World.

He soon will simply poof out of existence as people refuse to listen to the idiot.

46 posted on 05/28/2008 9:58:47 AM PDT by Candor7 (Fascism? All it takes is for good men to say nothing.)
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To: neverdem

Seeing stories like these are brutally painful for me. It’s a depressing world when there are people so insanely wrong that have power to take freedom on a whim.


47 posted on 05/28/2008 10:06:30 AM PDT by MartinStyles
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To: neverdem
"Nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of our city," Miller said

So does Welfare - when are you going to ban that?

48 posted on 05/28/2008 11:56:38 AM PDT by Fido969 ("The hardest thing in the world to understand is income tax." - Albert Einstein)
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To: neverdem
"Nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of our city," Miller said of sport shooting...

The Toronto Rod and Gun Club displays their outrage over this statement. ;)

Seriously, is there even one idiot liberal politician in the Western Hemisphere who can refrain from bald-faced lying about the difference between the effects of criminal elements wielding illegal guns and the effects of legal gun ownership?

49 posted on 05/28/2008 12:14:48 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("One man's 'magic' is another man's engineering. 'Supernatural' is a null word." -- Robert Heinlein)
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To: kittycatonline.com

If Miller had his way, gun ownership would be a felony.


50 posted on 05/30/2008 7:15:08 AM PDT by Heartofsong83
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