The new accessory: weapons, openly carried

Crosscut ^ | 6/10/08

[Dead Corpse]

On my property, sometimes. In public, SmartCarry. MN isn't a friendly place to open carry quite yet.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

Semper Fi,

I agree with you about the revolvers. Everyone loves pistols, but revolvers have a number of advantages of which you mentioned one. I think that the main drawback people site with revolvers is they carry less rounds than an average pistol and take longer to reload. However, there are speed clips and I have read many studies that show that in the unlikely event you will have to use your firearm you usually only fire a few rounds and it’s over. Extended firefights don’t usually happen at the local McDonalds, even in Detroit and Chicago!

Of course being a former jarhead I do have a Springfield 1911. I love it and carry it from time to time in colder weather with a jacket on.

[woollyone]

"While state law may not prohibit the open carry of loaded firearms, it is not uncommon for law enforcement to be unaware of this fact. Especially in states with highly restrictive laws regarding firearms ownership, open carry, even though legal, could result in serious negative consequences."

In common language...Da Man could shoot ya down for enjoying your freedoms.

[woollyone]

Solothurn?

[Old Teufel Hunden]

General J.E.B. Stuart carried a Le Mat and I believe he had it on him when he was killed in 1864 at Yellow Tavern.

[FreedomPoster]

I just got this letter via email from GeorgiaCarry.org:

GCO member John Lynch sent his own letter to the Clayton County Chief of Police. While we do not have a pdf of the letter, the text is reproduced here with his permission.

Jeffrey E. Turner
Chief of Police
Clayton County Police Department
7911 N. McDonough Street
Jonesboro, Georgia 30236

Dear Chief Turner,

I am writing to make a formal complaint regarding an illegal stop and ID check without probable cause or reasonable suspicion of a crime. In sum, one of your officers violated my Fourth Amendment rights by forcibly detaining me without any reasonable basis for suspecting me of engaging in unlawful conduct.

On May 19, 2008, at the QT gas station on Mt. Zion, in Morrow at 11:45 am, I stopped to get gasoline for my car. As has been my daily habit for the last two decades, I was legally carrying a pistol openly in a belt holster.

Officer Carter pulled up in car number 912 as I was pumping gasoline into my car. As I went in to pay for my gasoline, I had to pass his driver door. I recall that his window was closed. After I waited in line and paid for my gasoline, I turned to leave. Officer Carter was approaching the front door on the outside just as I approached from the inside. As I exited, Officer Carter stepped in front of me, stopped me, and demanded to see my "permit."

I inquired into the reason why he was stopping me, as I did not wish to be detained. Officer Carter replied in a gruff manner, "You have that gun on your hip" and pointed toward my hip. Since I did not at this point feel free to leave, I showed my Georgia Firearms License to Officer Carter as he demanded, and he then growled, "Next time I call you, don't keep walking past me." I did not know what he was talking about, but I did not reply to him because I did not wish to voluntarily interact with him in any manner, except to get his name to complain about him stopping me with no reasonable suspicion of a crime.

I requested a business card, and he yelled, "No!" Then he started to walk away, but not before I read his nametag. I also obtained the number off of his car.

A female police officer, whose name I do not know, witnessed the tail end of this interaction.

I have two major complaints. First, the mere presence of an openly carried, holstered firearm is not, by itself, reasonable suspicion of a crime sufficient to forcibly detain me. The United States Supreme Court in Florida v. J.L., 529 U.S. 266 (2000) clearly rejected the idea that there is a "firearms exception" to the Fourth Amendment. Officer Carter had no objective facts to support a reasonable belief that I was committing or about to commit a crime. Therefore, he had no justification to forcibly stop me against my will.

Second, Officer Carter went out of his way to be rude, and, as a Chief, you should not tolerate such behavior from your officers toward law abiding, peaceable citizens who are transacting business in the county.

I expect to be advised of what actions you will take to address this situation, and it is my hope that this will not happen to me again within Clayton County. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Sincerely,

John Lynch

Good letter, John! We will let you know what response the department sends, if any.

[Big Mack]

I have a .357 Ruger Blackhawk with a convertible 9mm cylinder. It does not use the half moon clips.

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

http://www.horstheld.com/0-LeMat.htm

Great photos of several real Le Mat Revolvers at above URL.

Le Mat “second model” percussion revolver, matching serial
# 767, cal. .42 for the nine-shot cylinder and .62 for the
buckshot or grapeshot barrel.

7” octagonal barrel with Col. Le Mat Bté. s.g.d.g. Paris
and additional on left side 767 LM with star over LM,
the round shotgun barrel is 5” long and is the cylinder
axis.
Revolver as fashionable during the period probably “kept
in the white”.
Today it is mottled gray.
Very fine two-piece checkered walnut grips, and in good
working order.

A fine example for one revolver supposedly used during
the Civil War $25,000.

[TMSuchman]

SEMPER FI to you as well sir!

I learned long ago to keep your head in a gunfight, 1 round, 1 kill! It never pays to spray & pray when you need to hit your target, there is way too many bystanders in the way. And there is always some legal eagle, blood sucker ready to sue you for everything that you currently own & as well in the future!

Also if a six shooter breaks down you can always fire it by manualy turning the cylinder & it does not double feed nor jam when you need it the most!
I do have a soft spot in my scarlet & gold heart for the 1911, but could never afford one though, not even a cheap knock off!

[Old Teufel Hunden]

Pretty wild looking revolver I will say. I would love to fire the smoothbore mini shotgun underneath.

I have to imagine that the calvary who carried this pistol had to really ensure that it was safe while riding around. Of course they would have to ensure that the hammer was not on a chambered round above, but then they would want to ensure that the selectable hammer firing pin was set on the top unchambered round and not on the lower loaded (I assume) smoothbore shotgun barrel.

[Lee N. Field]

A 9mm *REVOLVER*????

They do exist. Ruger made a 9mm SP101. Taurus and S&W have both had 9mm snubs.

I'd rather have a .40 SP101.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"I do have a soft spot in my scarlet & gold heart for the 1911, but could never afford one though, not even a cheap knock off!"

In the mid to late 80's when the military started to change over to the Barretta F-92 (big mistake IMO), they were selling the old Colt 1911's for something like 50 bucks each. Sure some of them were pretty beat up and needed worked on, but I just kick myself thinking about the fact that I didn't pick one up.

[Buffalo Bob]

Look like you got the USA Chart from Wikipedia.
I wonder how accurate it actually is, coming from there?

[TMSuchman]

I was just starting my first tour and I could not afford one on a Pvt.’s pay.

But the Recon/special ops guys are going back to the .45! I guess that they figured out if the bad guy is laying on the ground bleedin & screaming or very “quite” ;>) is a lot better than having them stand up and shoot back at you!

[NFHale]

My main carry is a Glock G19, with two extra 15 round mags; my BUG is an SW642 .38 Special with Federal Nyclad HPs and two extra 5-round speedloaders.

Glock on hip in a Galco paddle rig, because it ALWAYS works, and SW642 in small of back because it’s a light wheelgun (also ALWAYS works), and is easily concealable.

I’ve carried openly in PA on a number of occasions. Just not in the Socialist Wonderland of Philly.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"Just not in the Socialist Wonderland of Philly."

I'm from Pa also. I believe the law is that in order to open carry in Philly you have to have an LTC (For those not from Pa, that's a License to Carry or our version of the concealed carry permit). Throughout the rest of the state it is perfectly legal to openly carry without the LTC. I would not do it in Pittsburgh or Harrisburg as you would probably get hasseled. However, you are right. Outside of the cities, you can openly carry here and no one is really going to care much.

I must say, you are loaded for bear. Are you expecting a gang attack?? : )

[NFHale]

You never have enough ammo, water, etc, devil dog Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. In other words, following the Prime Directive ,"This Unit Must Survive..." And you are correct on the law in PA. Philly is the only "city of the first class" in PA; believe Harrisburg and Pittsburgh arent.

[rickomatic]

Your map is incorrect, at least in the case of Washington State. We are in fact a state with a strong preemption law, and open carry is allowed. As stated in your caveat though, many LEOs are unaware of this fact, and you should expect to be approached, and thusly should know your rights. There is an ongoing “education” program underway to enlighten our somewhat uninformed law enforcement community. As noted in other threads of late, some of our politicians here don’t seem to be concerned with current law (see Mayor Nickels), and like to follow their own agenda.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"You never have enough ammo, water, etc, devil dog Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. In other words, following the Prime Directive"

In the Corps, we were taught one shot one kill. So unless there's more than six perps I need to take out, I'm okay. In the unlikely event there is a seventh, I'll just horizontal buttstroke him with my wood grips around the steel frame of my Ruger. Or pick up a shovel and whack him with it...... : )

[Atlas Sneezed]

In California if you live in a county with less than 100,000 people you can carry openly.

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I don’t know about that, but if you aren’t a resident, you can’t register the pistol, and you will be a criminal merely for possessing the pistol.