Skip to comments.Was the Holocaust Inevitable? ( Patrick J. Buchanan )
Posted on 06/20/2008 8:12:50 AM PDT by kellynla
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“They were the origins of the international banking cabal we face today.”
First of all, I belong to a Jewish congregation. I am merely reporting a sequence of historical events; I am not attempting to justify them.
Read the book.
Some truth to that, attempts to portray him as "right wing" in the context of the GOP are a fraud, but common.
Take one Valu-Pak of Reynolds and call me in the morning.
Patrick J. Buchanan is a man whoif he ever had ithas lost his ability to recognize evil and now finds himself, in Milton's words, "in wand'ring mazes lost".
So why even mention it in this context? Pat IS trying to justify, or at least rationaize, Hitler's actions. Don't cross that line.
Shame on the Brits, but irrelevant.
Every time Pat speaksof the “Dear Leader”,I’m reminded of
the old Nazi in the play “The Producers.”
How are you so sure of his motives? I am no fan of Buchannan (although I agree with his stand on illegal immigration), but some of what he says is accurate, but lacking in insight as to causes. I really do suggest Antelman's book, because it explains a very great deal about an important sweep of history we are simply not taught, particularly as regards Eastern Europe. Many of the documents that substantiate it have only come to light since the fall of the Soviet Union.
For example, did you know that Ataturk was a direct descendant of Zevi?
Oh, and do me a favor, the very word, "holocaust" was derived from the Greek root, "holokaustos," meaning, "a holy and accepted burnt offering." Before 1949, there was no other definition or usage in the Greek lexicon. A "burnt offering" is hardly what I would favor calling the murder of millions by burning them alive. The word "holocaust" is offensive to the Orthodox, but they accept that it is the common usage. The correct word is "Shoah," meaning "disaster."
How anyone can ignore all of the evidence that Hitler was planning for war from the beginning is beyond me...
The British Empire had already been in decline for a long while before Churchill.
Have you read Moses Mendelsohn's ordination papers? I have. Have you read Abraham Geiger's acceptance speech? I have. Do you know much of the German communist revolution in 1848? Do you know where those who were expelled came? Or where Marx' descendants ended up?
Read Dr. Antelman's book (books, it's two volumes), really, it's an amazing story.
What does one’s familial descent have to do with a political movement? Modern Communism was a post Industrial Revolution modification of Enlightenment utopianism going back to The French Revolution and before. Your ‘Conspiracy of Rabbis’ story would make good fodder for Dan Brown.
Spare me. He has taken a blame-America, blame-the-West stance for our current war - and, mixed in with his anti-Semetic comments in the past, leads to a logical conclusion - that he is rationalizing away the Holocaust. As other posters have noted, Hitler was calling for an end to the Jews long before he invaded Poland and was acting against them. I really, REALLY would step back from the line you are taking here.
The traditional line is "Some of my best friends are Jewish"...
Although we don't understand it, we're pretty familiar with the phenomena of self hating Jews here on FR.
the historic accommodation the Germans had shown for the Jewish people
Ever wonder how "Einstein" became a nice name for a Jew?
German repression of
the Christ-killer Jews goes back at least as far as the middle ages. Anyone with a Jewish name was banned from many jobs, including anything in banking, government, and owning many private sector businesses.
There was an 'out': if a Jew converted (even if only on paper) and changed his name to a 'decent German name' the restrictions were off.
Oh, one little thing? We have this list of approved names that are German enough. It's only a coincidence that all the names are double entendres.
Perfect. Win-win for the Krauts. Jews can't complain that they are totally locked out, we offered them a way to fully participate, and become German. That makes it OK to discriminate against the ones who won't swear loyalty to Germany. If they do take a funny name, and swear allegiance to Germany rather than Israel, we can still look down on them for their willingness to do anything for money.
Hitler didn't create German anti-semitism. He tapped into a deep wide and rich vein of hatred that was a core part of the German psyche for centuries.
And, Einstein? It means "One Testicle"...
Frankly I suspect Pat believes he is initiating an argument by analogy against the West and its fight against Islam. I expect him to side with Islam. Nothing would surprise me these days.
Your Conspiracy of Rabbis story would make good fodder for Dan Brown.
Excuse me, but the source of this was the chief justice of the Orthodox Jewish Supreme Court. If you think those folks don't demand documentation, you are smoking something. Just because it didn't make it into the history books you read, doesn't mean it isn't fact.
BTW, the Sabbateans were instrumental in the Jacobin Revolution and the Enlightenment, and yes, I have read Peter Gay's recount.
It is not true that Prussia only acquired those provinces from Denmark and France in the period 1864-1871. Much more significantly, Prussia also absorbed much of the rest of Germany when Bismarck created the German Empire.
There were revolutions all over Europe in 1848 and it’s not entirely accurate to call them communist. They were a reaction to the virtual Police State set up by Metternich after the defeat of Napoleon. Do you also think Napoleon was a communist? Moses Mendelsohn was sort of a Jewish Kant (do you think Kant and Hume were communists?) No offense but you sound like Lyndon Larouche.
Huck has a good thread going about a grass-roots effort, from the conservatie side, to ask news outlets to not prop Pat Buchanon up as a “conservative” -— he does not speak for us.
So, who has time to put together a list of who to contact and how?
World Net Daily
Fox News -— probably need to break down by show
Ask your liberal neighbors if they think islam (the name means 'peace' doncha know) if they think muslims are our enemies, or our friends, or simply misunderstood.
Get back to us with what you learn, 'K?
Obviously, Buchanan ignores everything that happened to Jews in the 1930s.
Also, the Holocaust was begun in earnest in 1941 by the Einsatzkommando before Wannsee took place.
As for most of the Jews being killed later in the war, that's partly because most of the victims were in territories the Germans had to conquer and stabilize first. And it's preposterous to assert that Hitler threw millions of his best troops and other resources into Russia just to intimidate the Brits. Buchanan has it backwards; going into Russia doomed any chance Hitler had of defeating Britain.
I have to wonder if Buchanan is partly motivated by the hatred of England which simmers within some Irish Catholics.
Its a banality of evil that he does not recognize. In the WWI, the Kaiser Germany was an aggressor, looking for the space, power and all. But in a more conventional, “usual” way. Just one younger wannabe Empire fighting older Empires.
Lets take an occupied Ukraine, for example. The German occupation during the WWI was a relatively organized and on many occasions less painful to ordinary people caught in-between all the warring parties from Reds to Greens to Whites.
That memory of German relative civility even prompted some Jews naively not to escape them during the WWII. (and be killed). But brutality of Germans during the WWII did not stop with Jews. While not targeted for immediate extermination, the Slavs, nevertheless, were relegated to the lowly, often slave, labor role. Many who would not mind the communist rule to be gone, stopped seeing Germans as liberators quite quickly.
It is very instructive how different Germans became from WWI to WWII. The Holocaust was, of course, not a cause for war, but indication of the spreading evil malaise of Nazism, corrupting German society and making them collaborators in the industrial slaughter of human beings.
Oh, so you think "self-hating Jews" includes those who happen to make it to the position of Chief Justice of an Orthodox Supreme Rabbinical Court!
The vapors are getting to you.
German repression of the Christ-killer Jews goes back at least as far as the middle ages. Anyone with a Jewish name was banned from many jobs, including anything in banking, government, and owning many private sector businesses.
I'm not going to discuss the aftermath of the bar Kochba revolt for your benefit.
At the end of the 19th Century, Germany was the best place in Europe for a Jew to live, which is one reason why there were so many there at that time. As to Jewish names, Antelman recounts how not a few were adopted for the purpose of infiltrating European royalty. "Converting" religions as a pretense was a favorite Sabbatean sport, as exemplified by Ya'akov Lieb Frank.
Sir, it is the increasingly rare individual such as yourself, one not only capable of free thought but hopeful enough to admit it amongst the bleating sheep, that gives this forum life. Thank You so very much.
Members of M.M. Warburg remained in Germany, and thus in peril, until the last minute. Whatever their relationship with the Warburg firm, Kuhn Loeb would not have supported the Hitler regime. That is not the case with such firms as Brown Bros. Harriman or Standard of New Jersey, predecessor of Exxon Mobil.
I can not find any information on this alleged "Orthodox Rabbi" Marvin S. Antleman or the "Supreme Rabbinical Court of the United States" other than the conspiracy book authored under this name, and a bunch of whacko sites. This guy Antelman sounds like a complete whack job, and there is no such organization as the "Supreme Rabbinical Court of the United States"
So, once again, you are heading down the path of rationalization for what Hitler did. Actions eighty years before Hitler rose to power, regarding a small wing of Judaism dabbling in communism, are what drove Hitler? To exterminate? You really need to step back from the brink. This is not an intellectual exercise, as much as you are trying to make it such. Some of your terms, such as 'international banking cabal', are Stormfront bait.
Whatever your ideas of Jewish Law were in the past, rest assured they’ve since been secretly overturned by the “Supreme Rabbinical Court of the United States” under the authority of ‘Marburystein Vs. Madisonovitch’.
If Marx got communism from “the Jews,” why did he spew out so much anti-Semitic venom in his writings?
“Victor Davis Hanson eats Buchanan’s book for a snack”
yes, but he had to use lots of Pepto bismol!
If I may add a third, it’d be Pat’s attack on Hitchens as a Brit, gah-gah over losing the Empire. It’s typical of Buchanan’s style of argument.
What does Pat say about Lucky Lindy?
Moses Hess wasn’t a rabbi.
Hess was one of the earliest socialists and collaborated with Marx, but is not himself responsible for Marx’s ideas.
Correct. Pat also fails to mention that the Austro-Prussian War war removed Prussia’s only rival for dominance in Germany. Those 3 wars were carefully planned strategically to create a new Empire dominated by Prussia. French desire to avenge defeat in the Franco-Prussian War was a major cause of WW I. Outnumbered by the Germans, they allied themselves with Russia, thereby surrounding Germany. I consider the Russians the biggest villains because their giant, rotten, corrupt Empire had no legitimate reason to meddle in civilized Europe.
Wasn’t Lindberg pretty much ruined because he ran counter to the liberal thesis on Europe? He was set to become President and then someone nabbed his kid. Politics is some ugly stuff at critical junctures in history.
I am always interested in the etymology of surnames. Could you please explain some of the name changes by Jews in Europe. I always assumed that the European surnames were adopted by the Jewish population in Europe, the same way that the rest of the Europeans adopted surnames as a means of identification, either to family lineage, such as Robert’s son, or through career, such as kitchener, miller, butcher or other identifying trait. Is that not so?
The Jews who carried out all those conspiracies were non-observant Jews - observant Jews are also victims of this vast Jewish conspiracy!
Also, Antelman markets a product he calls Tetrasilver, which completely cures AIDS. Or so he says.
By the way, Antelman has another theory about how the NIH has engaged in a conspiracy to suppress the truth about Tetrasilver.
Why on earth does Pat think France and England should have just sat on their hands after Poland was invaded?
They did sit on their hands, and did nothing.
Not quite. Charles the younger was kidnapped in 1932, when Hoover was in the process of running for reelection, and Lindbergh was nowhere to be found among the Dems running for president.
Lindbergh started his "America First" activities in 1940, some eight years after the kidnapping.
I don't know where you heard your info, but is sounds like it came from the tin foil telephone.
Jews at that point in Germany were discriminated against, much as Blacks were in America.
Actually, it was started in 1939 when Polish priests, intelligentsia and professoriate were arrested and put into the newly created Auschwitz.