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Was the Holocaust Inevitable? ( Patrick J. Buchanan )
townhall.com ^ | June 20, 2008 | Patrick J. Buchanan

Posted on 06/20/2008 8:12:50 AM PDT by kellynla

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To: Carry_Okie

“They were the origins of the international banking cabal we face today.”

Uh, OK.


101 posted on 06/20/2008 9:08:16 AM PDT by MeanWestTexan (Kol Hakavod Mossad!)
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To: null and void
Crystal(nacht) clear reasoning there, Carrie

First of all, I belong to a Jewish congregation. I am merely reporting a sequence of historical events; I am not attempting to justify them.

102 posted on 06/20/2008 9:08:33 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (We have people in power with desire for evil.)
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To: MeanWestTexan
Uh, OK.

Read the book.

103 posted on 06/20/2008 9:09:18 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (We have people in power with desire for evil.)
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To: MeanWestTexan
Pat is being used by the MSM to keep Jews on the Democratic plantation....I am a staunch conservative, but the fact that this Nazi sympathiser had ANY position in ANY Republican administration and managed to win a few primaries gives me pause about some of my fellow conservative travelers.

Some truth to that, attempts to portray him as "right wing" in the context of the GOP are a fraud, but common.

104 posted on 06/20/2008 9:09:30 AM PDT by SJackson (If we win Iowa, then we can move to the world as it should be, Michelle O)
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To: Carry_Okie
the international banking cabal

Take one Valu-Pak of Reynolds and call me in the morning.

105 posted on 06/20/2008 9:11:44 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: kellynla
Was the Holocaust Inevitable?

Patrick J. Buchanan is a man who—if he ever had it—has lost his ability to recognize evil and now finds himself, in Milton's words, "in wand'ring mazes lost".

106 posted on 06/20/2008 9:12:06 AM PDT by snarks_when_bored
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To: Carry_Okie
First of all, I belong to a Jewish congregation. I am merely reporting a sequence of historical events; I am not attempting to justify them.

So why even mention it in this context? Pat IS trying to justify, or at least rationaize, Hitler's actions. Don't cross that line.

107 posted on 06/20/2008 9:12:09 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: wideawake
Read the book.
108 posted on 06/20/2008 9:12:14 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (We have people in power with desire for evil.)
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To: Carry_Okie
Marx was instructed in communism by Reform Rabbi Moses Hess. See post 87.

Marx's work was a direct response to Hegel and various utopian theorists. It bears litle to no relationship to Rabbinical Judaism.
109 posted on 06/20/2008 9:13:36 AM PDT by Borges
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To: PapaBear3625
The Jews were treated wonderfully right up untuil September 1, 1939, right Pat?... Hitler was willing to let the Jews emigrate to Palestine, but the Brits didn't want to upset the Arabs

Shame on the Brits, but irrelevant.

110 posted on 06/20/2008 9:13:42 AM PDT by SJackson (If we win Iowa, then we can move to the world as it should be, Michelle O)
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To: MeanWestTexan

Every time Pat speaksof the “Dear Leader”,I’m reminded of
the old Nazi in the play “The Producers.”


111 posted on 06/20/2008 9:14:14 AM PDT by Dr. Ursus (( commander of the simian host))
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To: ctdonath2

Could be.


112 posted on 06/20/2008 9:19:41 AM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: MeanWestTexan
Pat is being used by the MSM to keep Jews on the Democratic plantation.

Exactly. Pat becomes a media darling about every four years and it isn't an accident. They place his mug on camera with a caption reading "Conservative Commentator" or something similar while hailing him as a "leading conservative." All while he is being urged to say silly crap like "Hitler didn't really plan to kill Da Joooooooos."
113 posted on 06/20/2008 9:20:56 AM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: dirtboy; MeanWestTexan; null and void
Pat IS trying to justify, or at least rationaize, Hitler's actions. Don't cross that line.

How are you so sure of his motives? I am no fan of Buchannan (although I agree with his stand on illegal immigration), but some of what he says is accurate, but lacking in insight as to causes. I really do suggest Antelman's book, because it explains a very great deal about an important sweep of history we are simply not taught, particularly as regards Eastern Europe. Many of the documents that substantiate it have only come to light since the fall of the Soviet Union.

For example, did you know that Ataturk was a direct descendant of Zevi?

Oh, and do me a favor, the very word, "holocaust" was derived from the Greek root, "holokaustos," meaning, "a holy and accepted burnt offering." Before 1949, there was no other definition or usage in the Greek lexicon. A "burnt offering" is hardly what I would favor calling the murder of millions by burning them alive. The word "holocaust" is offensive to the Orthodox, but they accept that it is the common usage. The correct word is "Shoah," meaning "disaster."

114 posted on 06/20/2008 9:22:18 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (We have people in power with desire for evil.)
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To: kellynla

How anyone can ignore all of the evidence that Hitler was planning for war from the beginning is beyond me...

The British Empire had already been in decline for a long while before Churchill.


115 posted on 06/20/2008 9:24:31 AM PDT by buck jarret
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To: Borges
Marx's work was a direct response to Hegel and various utopian theorists. It bears litle to no relationship to Rabbinical Judaism.

Have you read Moses Mendelsohn's ordination papers? I have. Have you read Abraham Geiger's acceptance speech? I have. Do you know much of the German communist revolution in 1848? Do you know where those who were expelled came? Or where Marx' descendants ended up?

Read Dr. Antelman's book (books, it's two volumes), really, it's an amazing story.

116 posted on 06/20/2008 9:25:55 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (We have people in power with desire for evil.)
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To: Carry_Okie

What does one’s familial descent have to do with a political movement? Modern Communism was a post Industrial Revolution modification of Enlightenment utopianism going back to The French Revolution and before. Your ‘Conspiracy of Rabbis’ story would make good fodder for Dan Brown.


117 posted on 06/20/2008 9:28:01 AM PDT by Borges
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To: Carry_Okie
How are you so sure of his motives?

Spare me. He has taken a blame-America, blame-the-West stance for our current war - and, mixed in with his anti-Semetic comments in the past, leads to a logical conclusion - that he is rationalizing away the Holocaust. As other posters have noted, Hitler was calling for an end to the Jews long before he invaded Poland and was acting against them. I really, REALLY would step back from the line you are taking here.

118 posted on 06/20/2008 9:28:57 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Carry_Okie
First of all, I belong to a Jewish congregation.

The traditional line is "Some of my best friends are Jewish"...

Although we don't understand it, we're pretty familiar with the phenomena of self hating Jews here on FR.

the historic accommodation the Germans had shown for the Jewish people

ACCOMMODATION???

Ever wonder how "Einstein" became a nice name for a Jew?

German repression of the Christ-killer Jews goes back at least as far as the middle ages. Anyone with a Jewish name was banned from many jobs, including anything in banking, government, and owning many private sector businesses.

There was an 'out': if a Jew converted (even if only on paper) and changed his name to a 'decent German name' the restrictions were off.

Oh, one little thing? We have this list of approved names that are German enough. It's only a coincidence that all the names are double entendres.

Perfect. Win-win for the Krauts. Jews can't complain that they are totally locked out, we offered them a way to fully participate, and become German. That makes it OK to discriminate against the ones who won't swear loyalty to Germany. If they do take a funny name, and swear allegiance to Germany rather than Israel, we can still look down on them for their willingness to do anything for money.

Hitler didn't create German anti-semitism. He tapped into a deep wide and rich vein of hatred that was a core part of the German psyche for centuries.

And, Einstein? It means "One Testicle"...

119 posted on 06/20/2008 9:29:29 AM PDT by null and void (every Muslim, the minute he can start differentiating, carries hate of Americans, Jews & Christians)
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To: kellynla

Frankly I suspect Pat believes he is initiating an argument by analogy against the West and its fight against Islam. I expect him to side with Islam. Nothing would surprise me these days.


120 posted on 06/20/2008 9:30:13 AM PDT by macamadamia
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To: Borges
What does one’s familial descent have to do with a political movement?

A bunch.

Your ‘Conspiracy of Rabbis’ story would make good fodder for Dan Brown.

Excuse me, but the source of this was the chief justice of the Orthodox Jewish Supreme Court. If you think those folks don't demand documentation, you are smoking something. Just because it didn't make it into the history books you read, doesn't mean it isn't fact.

BTW, the Sabbateans were instrumental in the Jacobin Revolution and the Enlightenment, and yes, I have read Peter Gay's recount.

121 posted on 06/20/2008 9:31:42 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (We have people in power with desire for evil.)
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To: kellynla

It is not true that Prussia only acquired those provinces from Denmark and France in the period 1864-1871. Much more significantly, Prussia also absorbed much of the rest of Germany when Bismarck created the German Empire.


122 posted on 06/20/2008 9:31:55 AM PDT by buck jarret
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To: Carry_Okie

There were revolutions all over Europe in 1848 and it’s not entirely accurate to call them communist. They were a reaction to the virtual Police State set up by Metternich after the defeat of Napoleon. Do you also think Napoleon was a communist? Moses Mendelsohn was sort of a Jewish Kant (do you think Kant and Hume were communists?) No offense but you sound like Lyndon Larouche.


123 posted on 06/20/2008 9:32:46 AM PDT by Borges
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To: SJackson; Huck

Huck has a good thread going about a grass-roots effort, from the conservatie side, to ask news outlets to not prop Pat Buchanon up as a “conservative” -— he does not speak for us.

So, who has time to put together a list of who to contact and how?

World Net Daily
TownHall
Fox News -— probably need to break down by show
MSNBC


124 posted on 06/20/2008 9:33:07 AM PDT by MeanWestTexan (Kol Hakavod Mossad!)
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To: buck jarret
How anyone can ignore all of the evidence that Hitler was planning for war from the beginning is beyond me...

Ask your liberal neighbors if they think islam (the name means 'peace' doncha know) if they think muslims are our enemies, or our friends, or simply misunderstood.

Get back to us with what you learn, 'K?

125 posted on 06/20/2008 9:33:38 AM PDT by null and void (every Muslim, the minute he can start differentiating, carries hate of Americans, Jews & Christians)
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To: kellynla

Obviously, Buchanan ignores everything that happened to Jews in the 1930s.

Also, the Holocaust was begun in earnest in 1941 by the Einsatzkommando before Wannsee took place.


126 posted on 06/20/2008 9:36:07 AM PDT by buck jarret
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To: dirtboy
The German Army was only partly mechanized. They were still heavily dependent on horse transport.

As for most of the Jews being killed later in the war, that's partly because most of the victims were in territories the Germans had to conquer and stabilize first. And it's preposterous to assert that Hitler threw millions of his best troops and other resources into Russia just to intimidate the Brits. Buchanan has it backwards; going into Russia doomed any chance Hitler had of defeating Britain.

I have to wonder if Buchanan is partly motivated by the hatred of England which simmers within some Irish Catholics.

127 posted on 06/20/2008 9:37:19 AM PDT by hellbender
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To: SJackson
Pat mistakes a Nazi Germany of WWII with a Kaiser militaristic Germany of WWI.

Its a banality of evil that he does not recognize. In the WWI, the Kaiser Germany was an aggressor, looking for the space, power and all. But in a more conventional, “usual” way. Just one younger wannabe Empire fighting older Empires.

Lets take an occupied Ukraine, for example. The German occupation during the WWI was a relatively organized and on many occasions less painful to ordinary people caught in-between all the warring parties from Reds to Greens to Whites.

That memory of German relative civility even prompted some Jews naively not to escape them during the WWII. (and be killed). But brutality of Germans during the WWII did not stop with Jews. While not targeted for immediate extermination, the Slavs, nevertheless, were relegated to the lowly, often slave, labor role. Many who would not mind the communist rule to be gone, stopped seeing Germans as liberators quite quickly.

It is very instructive how different Germans became from WWI to WWII. The Holocaust was, of course, not a cause for war, but indication of the spreading evil malaise of Nazism, corrupting German society and making them collaborators in the industrial slaughter of human beings.

128 posted on 06/20/2008 9:38:28 AM PDT by Tolik
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To: null and void
Although we don't understand it, we're pretty familiar with the phenomena of self hating Jews here on FR.

Oh, so you think "self-hating Jews" includes those who happen to make it to the position of Chief Justice of an Orthodox Supreme Rabbinical Court!

The vapors are getting to you.

German repression of the Christ-killer Jews goes back at least as far as the middle ages. Anyone with a Jewish name was banned from many jobs, including anything in banking, government, and owning many private sector businesses.

I'm not going to discuss the aftermath of the bar Kochba revolt for your benefit.

At the end of the 19th Century, Germany was the best place in Europe for a Jew to live, which is one reason why there were so many there at that time. As to Jewish names, Antelman recounts how not a few were adopted for the purpose of infiltrating European royalty. "Converting" religions as a pretense was a favorite Sabbatean sport, as exemplified by Ya'akov Lieb Frank.

129 posted on 06/20/2008 9:38:39 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (We have people in power with desire for evil.)
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To: Carry_Okie

Sir, it is the increasingly rare individual such as yourself, one not only capable of free thought but hopeful enough to admit it amongst the bleating sheep, that gives this forum life. Thank You so very much.


130 posted on 06/20/2008 9:42:00 AM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: Zionist Conspirator; wideawake; Carry_Okie
Oh, so you think "self-hating Jews" includes those who happen to make it to the position of Chief Justice of an Orthodox Supreme Rabbinical Court!

Hey ZC are you up to date with the rulings of the "Orthodox Supreme Rabbinical Court"?

As to Jewish names, Antelman recounts how not a few were adopted for the purpose of infiltrating European royalty. "Converting" religions as a pretense was a favorite Sabbatean sport, as exemplified by Ya'akov Lieb Frank.

Those Jews...always trying to get into positions of power. Look at all the Jews in European Royal Families today!

FYI: Conversions occurred because basic careers were not available to Jews.
131 posted on 06/20/2008 9:43:12 AM PDT by Borges
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To: Carry_Okie

Members of M.M. Warburg remained in Germany, and thus in peril, until the last minute. Whatever their relationship with the Warburg firm, Kuhn Loeb would not have supported the Hitler regime. That is not the case with such firms as Brown Bros. Harriman or Standard of New Jersey, predecessor of Exxon Mobil.


132 posted on 06/20/2008 9:45:22 AM PDT by buck jarret
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To: Carry_Okie
There is a whole book on the topic, To Eliminate the Opiate, by Orthodox Jewish Rabbi and Chief Justice of the Supreme Rabbinical Court of the United States, Marvin S Antelman.

I can not find any information on this alleged "Orthodox Rabbi" Marvin S. Antleman or the "Supreme Rabbinical Court of the United States" other than the conspiracy book authored under this name, and a bunch of whacko sites. This guy Antelman sounds like a complete whack job, and there is no such organization as the "Supreme Rabbinical Court of the United States"

133 posted on 06/20/2008 9:45:52 AM PDT by Alouette (Vicious Babushka)
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To: Carry_Okie
Have you read Moses Mendelsohn's ordination papers? I have. Have you read Abraham Geiger's acceptance speech? I have. Do you know much of the German communist revolution in 1848? Do you know where those who were expelled came? Or where Marx' descendants ended up?

So, once again, you are heading down the path of rationalization for what Hitler did. Actions eighty years before Hitler rose to power, regarding a small wing of Judaism dabbling in communism, are what drove Hitler? To exterminate? You really need to step back from the brink. This is not an intellectual exercise, as much as you are trying to make it such. Some of your terms, such as 'international banking cabal', are Stormfront bait.

134 posted on 06/20/2008 9:46:12 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Alouette

Whatever your ideas of Jewish Law were in the past, rest assured they’ve since been secretly overturned by the “Supreme Rabbinical Court of the United States” under the authority of ‘Marburystein Vs. Madisonovitch’.


135 posted on 06/20/2008 9:47:57 AM PDT by Borges
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To: Carry_Okie

If Marx got communism from “the Jews,” why did he spew out so much anti-Semitic venom in his writings?


136 posted on 06/20/2008 9:47:58 AM PDT by hellbender
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To: 1rudeboy

“Victor Davis Hanson eats Buchanan’s book for a snack”

yes, but he had to use lots of Pepto bismol!


137 posted on 06/20/2008 9:53:18 AM PDT by Tolik
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To: wideawake

If I may add a third, it’d be Pat’s attack on Hitchens as a Brit, gah-gah over losing the Empire. It’s typical of Buchanan’s style of argument.


138 posted on 06/20/2008 9:54:29 AM PDT by RedRover (DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
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To: kellynla

What does Pat say about Lucky Lindy?


139 posted on 06/20/2008 9:54:50 AM PDT by kinghorse
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To: Carry_Okie

Moses Hess wasn’t a rabbi.

Hess was one of the earliest socialists and collaborated with Marx, but is not himself responsible for Marx’s ideas.


140 posted on 06/20/2008 9:55:10 AM PDT by buck jarret
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To: buck jarret

Correct. Pat also fails to mention that the Austro-Prussian War war removed Prussia’s only rival for dominance in Germany. Those 3 wars were carefully planned strategically to create a new Empire dominated by Prussia. French desire to avenge defeat in the Franco-Prussian War was a major cause of WW I. Outnumbered by the Germans, they allied themselves with Russia, thereby surrounding Germany. I consider the Russians the biggest villains because their giant, rotten, corrupt Empire had no legitimate reason to meddle in civilized Europe.


141 posted on 06/20/2008 9:55:56 AM PDT by hellbender
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To: kinghorse

Wasn’t Lindberg pretty much ruined because he ran counter to the liberal thesis on Europe? He was set to become President and then someone nabbed his kid. Politics is some ugly stuff at critical junctures in history.


142 posted on 06/20/2008 9:56:32 AM PDT by kinghorse
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To: Carry_Okie

I am always interested in the etymology of surnames. Could you please explain some of the name changes by Jews in Europe. I always assumed that the European surnames were adopted by the Jewish population in Europe, the same way that the rest of the Europeans adopted surnames as a means of identification, either to family lineage, such as Robert’s son, or through career, such as kitchener, miller, butcher or other identifying trait. Is that not so?


143 posted on 06/20/2008 9:56:47 AM PDT by Eva (ue)
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To: null and void; Borges; Zionist Conspirator
Marvin Antelman is a conspiracy theorist who repeats all the usual anti-Semitic tropes about Jews - but with a twist!

The Jews who carried out all those conspiracies were non-observant Jews - observant Jews are also victims of this vast Jewish conspiracy!

Also, Antelman markets a product he calls Tetrasilver, which completely cures AIDS. Or so he says.

By the way, Antelman has another theory about how the NIH has engaged in a conspiracy to suppress the truth about Tetrasilver.

144 posted on 06/20/2008 9:56:54 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: wardaddy

Why on earth does Pat think France and England should have just sat on their hands after Poland was invaded?

They did sit on their hands, and did nothing.


145 posted on 06/20/2008 9:59:56 AM PDT by sobieski
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To: kinghorse
He was set to become President and then someone nabbed his kid.

Not quite. Charles the younger was kidnapped in 1932, when Hoover was in the process of running for reelection, and Lindbergh was nowhere to be found among the Dems running for president.

Lindbergh started his "America First" activities in 1940, some eight years after the kidnapping.

I don't know where you heard your info, but is sounds like it came from the tin foil telephone.

146 posted on 06/20/2008 10:00:29 AM PDT by Clemenza (No Comment)
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To: SJackson

Jews at that point in Germany were discriminated against, much as Blacks were in America.


147 posted on 06/20/2008 10:02:24 AM PDT by sobieski
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To: SJackson
Buchanan would blame the SWAT team for showing up to stop a threatening mass murderer if he committed the crime he says he intends to commit. Pat's real dilemma, however, is that it's nearly impossible for him to figure out who to cheer for.
148 posted on 06/20/2008 10:02:28 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Isolationism and pacifism: the soft underbelly of American freedom.)
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To: Carry_Okie

FYI


149 posted on 06/20/2008 10:04:40 AM PDT by Borges
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To: buck jarret

Actually, it was started in 1939 when Polish priests, intelligentsia and professoriate were arrested and put into the newly created Auschwitz.


150 posted on 06/20/2008 10:05:06 AM PDT by sobieski
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