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Gun Rights Groups File Suit to end Unconstitutional Chicago Gun Ban
Buckeye Firearms Association ^ | 06/26/08 | staff

Posted on 06/27/2008 7:47:38 AM PDT by epow

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To: antiRepublicrat
I think what I said came across wrong. Daley is saying this will turn the country into the Old West, when the country is already more dangerous than the Old West due to politicians like him.

*THAT* is a sentiment I wholeheartedly agree with...

the infowarrior

41 posted on 06/27/2008 4:55:32 PM PDT by infowarrior
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To: Tenacious 1
Someone correct my history if this is not accurate.

Your history is correct. The Clantons and their friends refused to disarm in the town as the Earps' policy required them to, and the Earps and Doc Holliday were apparently waiting for an excuse to provoke a fight with the Clanton-McLaurey gang of ruffians and cattle rustlers.

That potentially explosive confrontation between two well armed cliques who hated each other was almost sure to end in a gunfight. But the fact that the OK Corral fight made headlines in eastern cities 2000 miles away is a good indication of how seldom such a relatively large scale gunfight actually occurred in the old west.

42 posted on 06/27/2008 7:48:05 PM PDT by epow (The question is not "Is God on America's side." but "Is America on God's side?")
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To: infowarrior
in effect, law enforcement officers of one sort or another (yes, the Clanton-Mc Laury faction were "duly deputized" Tombstone deputies at the time).

Right. The county sheriff's faction, i.e. John Behan and the Clanton/McLaurey ruffians, and the town marshall's faction, i.e. the Earps and Holliday, were bitter enemies. A large part of that mutual enmity was due to the Earps' well known status as Union Army veterans and the Clanton faction's history of sympathy for the Confederate cause, and if what I have read is correct both sides were much less than innocent in the shooting incident which claimed 3 lives and achieved notoriety all over the country.

It seems that the role of honest, brave LE officers assigned to the Earps and the role of cowardly cattle thieves assigned to the Clanton faction were assigned by the popular dime novels of that era rather than by the actual residents of Tombstone who knew the truth about both groups of gamblers, small time thieves, and politically motivated opportunists.

43 posted on 06/27/2008 8:24:00 PM PDT by epow (The question is not "Is God on America's side." but "Is America on God's side?")
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To: epow
"... restoration of their own constitutional right ..."

If it is a constitutional right, then there is no need for it to be restored.

If it needs to be restored, then it was not a right to begin with.

This is not a case of restoring something. This is a case of legally recognizing something. It is a case of the highest court in the land legally recognizing a right of the citizens.

The 2nd Amemdment never went away. I just wasn't recognized nor honored by many people... and still is not recognized nor honored by many people.

I have said before that a right is legitimate only when it is recognized by the courts. If the courts don't recognize a right, then it effectively does not exist.

Legislatures consistenly refuse to recognize basic rights we have as citizens. They consistently enact laws that infringe upon our rights. I would guess that most laws enacted today infringe upon our rights in one or more ways.

It is the job of the courts to put a stop to legislatures' tyrranical efforts to destroy our rights.

Courts are the real upholders of liberty and freedom in America. If courts, judges, don't uphold our rights, then we are at a point where we must uphold them with deadly force against government, or acquiese to having our rights obliterated by government.

Sadly, the later is what I believe has been happening for a long time, and will ultimately result in government rejecting all of our rights. They will still exist technically. They just won't be recognized by government.

The Declaration of Independence says governments exist to protect our rights. The preamble of the Constitution says the same thing.

In spite of those clear declarations, governments in America are busy rejecting our rights at every turn.

That is not surprising. Every government down through history has attempted to, and in many cases been totally successful at, rejecting citizen's rights. Governments in America are doing the very same thing.

I don't recall a single case in history where citizens have successfully defeated government's efforts, either through legal process or armed revolution. Governments have always won in the end.

I believe America will go the same way... and is going the same way.
44 posted on 06/27/2008 9:17:33 PM PDT by gpk9 ("Fairness" is the new Constitution and Bill of (no) Rights for America... I mean Amerika.)
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To: epow
Then there is the mysterious "stagecoach robbery", where Doc Holliday was fingered. After the OK corral incident, and it aftermath, that whole thing kind of got swept under the rug.

Was there really a robbery of that stage? Did Holliday do it? Was it a put-up job by the Clanton McLaurey faction to discredit the Earps?

Nobody will ever know the truth of it, but anyone who has done even a modicum of research into the whole thing knows that the dime novel version of the whole affair is just so much bunk...

the infowarrior

45 posted on 06/27/2008 9:19:44 PM PDT by infowarrior
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To: epow
A large part of that mutual enmity was due to the Earps' well known status as Union Army veterans and the Clanton faction's history of sympathy for the Confederate cause, and if what I have read is correct both sides were much less than innocent in the shooting incident which claimed 3 lives and achieved notoriety all over the country.

While Virgil Earp was, indeed, a veteran of the Union army, Neither Wyatt, nor his younger brother Morgan were (both were too young at the time). This actually worked in Wyatt's favor, when he became "peacekeeper" in both Witchita, and Dodge City, during the cattle boom.

Since the majority of the herds arriving for sale in these boom towns came from Texas, and were driven by ex-Confederates. The "powers that were" *wanted* these ex-Confederates to hang around long enough to put most of the herd sale money back into their pockets, in the form of entertainment for these cowboys who had spent long, hard months driving the herds to these market towns. A local lawman with a Union Army background, with an obvious axe to grind, didn't fit in with these plans.

Enter young Wyatt Earp, an ambitious, rather mercenary, young man, without *any* of that baggage. He became a good fit as their "town super-bouncer", and I'll admit, he was quite successful at it, moving from one boom town to the next. But in the final analysis, his actual "career" as a lawman reads more like the career of a Patrick Swayze "Roadhouse" style bouncer than anything else...

the infowarrior

46 posted on 06/27/2008 9:40:05 PM PDT by infowarrior
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To: gpk9
If it is a constitutional right, then there is no need for it to be restored.

An inherent right is unalienable whether or not it is recognized as such by government. But the practice of a right can be forbidden by government, and as we all know the right to keep and bear arms often is. Therefore I think it would be correct to say that our ability to practice the right to keep and bear arms needs to be restored rather than to say the right itself needs to be restored.

I have said before that a right is legitimate only when it is recognized by the courts. If the courts don't recognize a right, then it effectively does not exist.

A right doesn't exist in effect when denied to the people by government, but it can't be made non-existent by government. People have inherent, unalienable rights, government only has certain enumerated powers granted to it by the people it governs, but not inherent rights.

47 posted on 06/27/2008 9:45:01 PM PDT by epow (The question is not "Is God on America's side." but "Is America on God's side?")
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To: epow

Sounds to me like you’re splitting hairs. If government forbids the exercise of a right then government has effectively rejected that right... just as I stated.


48 posted on 06/27/2008 9:50:09 PM PDT by gpk9 ("Fairness" is the new Constitution and Bill of (no) Rights for America... I mean Amerika.)
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To: infowarrior
While Virgil Earp was, indeed, a veteran of the Union army, Neither Wyatt, nor his younger brother Morgan were (both were too young at the time)

You're right of course, Virgil was the only actual Union veteran of the Earp brothers. But I think Virgil's Union veteran status had at least something to do with the enmity between the Earp clan and the Clanton/McLaurey bunch. OTOH I don't think that either group's hostility toward the other was primarily motivated by loyalty to one side or the other of that fratricidal war.

I tend to believe that both cliques were motivated more by monetary greed and a desire for raw political power than by any other factor. Neither faction was worthy of the adulation heaped on the Earp's and Holliday by the eastern press and the dime novel authors.

49 posted on 06/27/2008 10:21:59 PM PDT by epow (The question is not "Is God on America's side." but "Is America on God's side?")
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To: epow
Neither faction was worthy of the adulation heaped on the Earp's and Holliday by the eastern press and the dime novel authors.

Definitely agree.. Been fun discussing this with you!

the infowarrior

50 posted on 06/27/2008 10:37:46 PM PDT by infowarrior
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To: gpk9
Sounds to me like you’re splitting hairs.

Perhaps I am. I just wanted to emphasize that an unalienable right doesn't cease to exist just because a government doesn't recognize it as a right and denies it to the people it governs. An inherent human right may become moribund in practical terms due to the people's inability to exercise it in a dictatorial state, but it still exists nonetheless.

51 posted on 06/27/2008 10:46:57 PM PDT by epow (The question is not "Is God on America's side." but "Is America on God's side?")
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To: epow
"An inherent human right may become moribund in practical terms due to the people's inability to exercise it in a dictatorial state, but it still exists nonetheless."

Yes, I believe I said that.
52 posted on 06/28/2008 9:50:02 PM PDT by gpk9 ("Fairness" is the new Constitution and Bill of (no) Rights for America... I mean Amerika.)
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To: gpk9

Great, then we agree.


53 posted on 06/28/2008 10:57:12 PM PDT by epow (The question is not "Is God on America's side." but "Is America on God's side?")
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