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Obama - Not Born in the USA?
MacRanger Radio Show ^ | Jun 29, 2008 | Jack Moss

Posted on 07/01/2008 1:03:52 PM PDT by Red Steel

Fellow Blog Talk Radio compadre David Zublick over at Heading Right says, “Maybe Not“.

I noted back here that when Kos produced - not a birth certificate - but a certificate of live birth there were several discrepancies noted that pointed to the fact - aside from the convenience - that the document was most likely forged. Since Obama has failed to produce a birth certificate, in-spite of several calls to do so, is telling indeed.

I was born in 1958 in the State of Florida and I can get a birth certificate for ten bucks. I doubt Hawaii was so backward in 1961 that it cannot produce a copy that he could show.

The news orgs are NOT looking into this, but some of us can snoop where others cannot. We’ll see what we can find. Fellow Blog Talk Radio compadre David Zublick over at Heading Right says, “Maybe Not“.

I noted back here that when Kos produced - not a birth certificate - but a certificate of live birth there were several discrepancies noted that pointed to the fact - aside from the convenience - that the document was most likely forged. Since Obama has failed to produce a birth certificate, in-spite of several calls to do so, is telling indeed.

I was born in 1958 in the State of Florida and I can get a birth certificate for ten bucks. I doubt Hawaii was so backward in 1961 that it cannot produce a copy that he could show.

The news orgs are NOT looking into this, but some of us can snoop where others cannot. We’ll see what we can find.

UPDATE: Looks like some have filed the ole FOIA request to force the issue. Meanwhile Doug Ross thinks it’s legit.

One note, Certificates of Live Birth are NOT considered proof of citizenship in many states including Florida, while in other states it is.

Again, why not then just produce the damn certificate, it clears up the whole thing. Until we see that, the issue isn’t closed.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2008election; ajntsa; birthcertificate; certifigate; demagogues; democrats; dnc; election; letitgo; media; msm; noiwont; notarealissue; obama; obamatruthfile; obamsaloverdefend; rats; redherring; yesitis
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1 posted on 07/01/2008 1:03:52 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Calpernia

Ping


2 posted on 07/01/2008 1:05:14 PM PDT by pissant (THE Conservative party: www.falconparty.com)
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To: pissant

You do find these thread fast! ;-)


3 posted on 07/01/2008 1:08:23 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel

Hashed out time and time again the past few weeks on FR. It may be very possible we are being scammed by Obama’s troops and at some point he will come forward with a certified-certified copy and make us all look foolish, full of tin-foil conspiracy theories, and right-wing nut cases. Of course, whispered community rumors about his birthplace and religion may hurt him, but the same-o, same-o here on FR doesn’t do anything for our credibility.


4 posted on 07/01/2008 1:11:12 PM PDT by CedarDave (May the environazis freeze in the dark. Unfortunately, they may have the rest of us joining them.)
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To: Red Steel

ON!,

NTSA!


5 posted on 07/01/2008 1:11:56 PM PDT by MindBender26 (Leftists stop arguing when they see your patriotism, your logic, your CAR-15 and your block of C4.)
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To: Red Steel

This is getting silly.

Obama has produced a perfectly acceptable birth certifcate.

I can’t stand the guy, but this is ridiculous.


6 posted on 07/01/2008 1:11:56 PM PDT by ltc8k6
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To: CedarDave

There’s no doubt his mother was a citizen .....so does it even matter where he was born?

My sister’s kids were born in Holland and they’re USA citizens....


7 posted on 07/01/2008 1:13:51 PM PDT by Aria (Obama: Potluck for President! "I serve as a blank screen on which people..project their own views")
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To: Red Steel

Obama is trying to lower the bar over what constitutes qualifications to the Presidency of the United States. The lowest possible bar he can set is meeting the Constitutional requirements for being a native born citizen. This is the standard we are now arguing over.

All additional qualifications of temprement, experience, ability, philosophy, corruptability and resume are being conveniently forgotten while we argue whether or not he is meets the Constitutional bar. Then when it is proven that he does, he will pretend that that eliminates any possible objection anybody might have to him being President of the United States.


8 posted on 07/01/2008 1:14:27 PM PDT by gridlock (Al Gore wants YOU to live like the Flintstones while HE lives like the Jetsons.)
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To: Aria
My sister’s kids were born in Holland and they’re USA citizens....

If you don't get this yet, you never will.

9 posted on 07/01/2008 1:15:28 PM PDT by gridlock (Al Gore wants YOU to live like the Flintstones while HE lives like the Jetsons.)
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To: Red Steel

So if he can’t produce his birth certificate, then he should be able to produce his naturalization records since he’d need those to run for the Senate, correct?


10 posted on 07/01/2008 1:16:39 PM PDT by Slapshot68
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To: Aria
There’s no doubt his mother was a citizen .....so does it even matter where he was born?

Because to be eligible for Prez you must be a "natural born" citizen.

11 posted on 07/01/2008 1:17:25 PM PDT by LikeLight (http://www.believersguidetolegalissues.com)
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To: Red Steel
Certificates of Live Birth are NOT considered proof of citizenship in many states

Okay I gotta ask...what is considered proof of citizenship in those States?

12 posted on 07/01/2008 1:17:42 PM PDT by Domandred (McCain's 'R' is a typo that has never been corrected)
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To: gridlock

That may be his intent. Take the focus off of his qualifications and focus on the birth certificate. Although we should be looking at all of it.


13 posted on 07/01/2008 1:20:03 PM PDT by RC2
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To: LikeLight

If your parent is a U.S. citizen, then the child is automatically considered to be “natural born.”


14 posted on 07/01/2008 1:21:38 PM PDT by Slapshot68
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To: Slapshot68

If he produces naturalization records (of his own) he’s automatically disqualified from serving as President of the US.


15 posted on 07/01/2008 1:22:22 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Red Steel

Maybe Springsteen’s “Madame Marie” can tell us whether he’s “born in the USA”?

Oops, too late.


16 posted on 07/01/2008 1:22:25 PM PDT by A_Former_Democrat
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To: ltc8k6

Obama has produced a perfectly acceptable birth certifcate.?

He has?
Been verified by the proper authorities and all, huh?

Well excuse me but I want to see the real thing. What I’ve seen so far is photoshopped. I know PS enough to see faked areas even without a real one for comparison. And there is one that shows the difference.

It’s very simple to quell all this crap. Show us the real deal.
It does take time to come up with a “real” certificate.

Go here
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12939.htm


17 posted on 07/01/2008 1:23:16 PM PDT by TribalPrincess2U
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To: Red Steel; pissant; Calpernia

Got the following in an e-mail afew days ago. I’m not a lawyer or an expert on election oe citizenship law. I found it fascinating, but have no way of knowing if there’s anything to it...

...............

Subject: Obama May Be Illegal To Be Elected President!

This came from a USNA alumnus. It’ll be interesting to see how the media handle this...


Barack Obama is not a legal U.S. natural-born citizen according to the law on the books at the time of his birth, which falls between December 24, 1952, to November 13, 1986. Federal Law requires that the office of President requires a natural-born citizen if the child was not born to two U.S. Citizen parents. This is what exempts John McCain, though he was born in the US Panama Canal Zone.

US Law very clearly states: ‘. . . If only one parent is a U.S. Citizen at the time of one’s birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for minimum ten years, five of which must be after the age of 16.’ Barack Obama’s father was not a U.S. Citizen is a fact.

Obama’s mother was only 18 when Obama was born. This means even though she had been a U.S. Citizen for 10 years, (or citizen of Hawaii being a territory), his mother fails the test for at-least-5-years- prior-to Barack Obama’s birth, but-after-age-16.

In essence, Mother alone is not old enough to qualify her son for automatic U.S. Citizenship. At most, 2 years elapsed from his mother turning 16 to the time of Barack Obama’s birth when she was 18. His mother would have needed to have been 16 + 5 = 21 years old at the time of Barack Obama’s birth for him to be a natural-born citizen. Barack Obama was already 3 years old at the time his mother would have needed to be to allow him natural citizenship from his only U.S. Citizen parent. Obama should have been naturalized as a citizen . . but that would disqualify him from holding the office.

The Constitution clearly declares: Naturalized citizens are ineligible to hold the office of President. Though Barack Obama was sent back to Hawaii at age 10, any other information does not matter because his mother is the one who must fulfill the requirement to be a U.S. Citzen for 10 years prior to his birth on August 4, 1961, with 5 of those years being after age 16.

Further, Obama may have had to have remained in the USA for some time frame to protect any citizenship he might have had, rather than living in Indonesia. This is very clear cut and a glaring violation of U.S. Election law. I think the Governor Schwarzenegger of California should be very interested in discovering if Obama is allowed to be elected President without being a natural-born U.S. Citizen, since this would set a precedent. Stay tuned to your TV sets because I suspect some of this information will be leaking through over the next several days.


18 posted on 07/01/2008 1:24:10 PM PDT by smoothsailing
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To: DuncanWaring

Well right but I’m saying the is he even qualified to be a Senator? When he ran, did he have to prove citizenship in some way?


19 posted on 07/01/2008 1:24:34 PM PDT by Slapshot68
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To: ltc8k6

This whole story reeks of desperation. Time to let it go.


20 posted on 07/01/2008 1:25:17 PM PDT by Unlikely Hero ("Time is a wonderful teacher; unfortunately, it kills all its pupils." --Berlioz)
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To: Red Steel
The blogger Doug Ross linked in your post seems to have identified a possible signature block on the copy of the certificate posted at Daily Kos.

If that is indeed the case, then the certificate does appear legitimate, having both a seal and a signature.

However, I continue to find it odd that the campaign did not simply offer the document for inspection by interested parties. All rumors would have ceased at that point. Now, because of stonewalling by the campaign, they've managed to create an issue that won't go away.

21 posted on 07/01/2008 1:27:59 PM PDT by mojito
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To: Slapshot68

Apparently not.


22 posted on 07/01/2008 1:28:40 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: mojito
However, I continue to find it odd that the campaign did not simply offer the document for inspection by interested parties.

Why should they. If they don't we sit here and chase imaginary rabbits down holes that go no where, all the while, ignoring his leftist record and day to day gaffs.

23 posted on 07/01/2008 1:31:00 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: TribalPrincess2U
"I know PS enough to see faked areas even without a real one for comparison"

O rly? I can make modifications in photoshop that you will not be able to detect.
It's when people attempt to falsify entire documents that the errors are easier to spot, because you can find contextual, document, and formatting errors (Dan Rather). But if you want partial modifications of a valid document, you can reference the valid document for properties and patterns.
24 posted on 07/01/2008 1:31:19 PM PDT by z3n
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To: ltc8k6
Obama has produced a perfectly acceptable birth certificate.

No, he has not. Are you oblivious to the many problems with the Obama BC? These questions weren't plucked out of thin air. The issue is not going away because the question is absolutely legitimate.

MM

25 posted on 07/01/2008 1:32:05 PM PDT by MississippiMan
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To: Unlikely Hero
This whole story reeks of desperation. Time to let it go.

I tend to agree ... the Kommie Kos Kooks are probably trying to bait us.

If this story is to have any impact, it will need to be corroborated.

26 posted on 07/01/2008 1:35:11 PM PDT by bassmaner (Hey commies: I am a white male, and I am guilty of NOTHING! Sell your 'white guilt' elsewhere.)
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To: Slapshot68

One can be a Senator or Representative if one is a naturalized citizen.

Representative Tom Lantos was a naturalized citizen born in Budapest, Hungary.


27 posted on 07/01/2008 1:37:31 PM PDT by gridlock (Al Gore wants YOU to live like the Flintstones while HE lives like the Jetsons.)
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To: gridlock

I’m aware of that. But do they have to prove they were naturalized before running?


28 posted on 07/01/2008 1:38:28 PM PDT by Slapshot68
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To: z3n

That’s pretty much what I said.


29 posted on 07/01/2008 1:38:34 PM PDT by TribalPrincess2U
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To: TribalPrincess2U
It’s very simple to quell all this crap. Show us the real deal.

Another simple way to quell all this crap is to provide any evidence at all that Obama was born outside of the U.S.

30 posted on 07/01/2008 1:39:17 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: gridlock; David

>>>One can be a Senator or Representative if one is a naturalized citizen.

That is true. Let’s hope B.O. filed his naturalization papers. But ‘unverified’ rumor is he never filed for Selective Service.

If he didn’t complete the naturalization process, than as David said, he is an illegal alien.


31 posted on 07/01/2008 1:41:39 PM PDT by Calpernia (Hunters Rangers - Raising the Bar of Integrity http://www.barofintegrity.us)
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To: smoothsailing
US Law very clearly states: ‘. . . If only one parent is a U.S. Citizen at the time of one’s birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for minimum ten years, five of which must be after the age of 16.’ Barack Obama’s father was not a U.S. Citizen is a fact.

Does it? I have never seen anyone quote the specific law that supposedly said that. Title and section and when was it supposed to have been passed?

32 posted on 07/01/2008 1:41:42 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Slapshot68
But do they have to prove they were naturalized before running?

To who?

33 posted on 07/01/2008 1:42:37 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur

Don’t they have to register to run? That would be a good place to begin the screening.


34 posted on 07/01/2008 1:43:49 PM PDT by Slapshot68
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To: MississippiMan

Yes. I participated in many discussions of Obama’s BC here and elsewhere and believed it was suspect.

I am now aware that there actually is an embossed seal on the certificate and that there is likely an official’s signature on the back.

The problems I and many others had with it have been addressed to my satisfaction.


35 posted on 07/01/2008 1:44:16 PM PDT by ltc8k6
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To: Red Steel

Sunday, June 29, 2008

Freedom of Information Act Request for Barack Obama's Birth Certificate

I have written and will mail on Monday two Freedom of Information Act requests to the State of Hawaii for copies of Barack Obama's birth certificate as per Larwyn's suggestion. Pamela Geller of Atlas Shrugs argues that there may be no problem with Mr. Obama's birth certificate, but the State of Hawaii and Mr. Obama have an ethical obligation to come clean on this matter.

Mark Bennett, Attorney General
Department of the Attorney General
State of Hawaii
425 Queen Street
Honolulu, Hawaii 96813


Dear Mr. Bennett:

This is a freedom of information act request for the birth certificate of Barack Obama, born August 4, 1961. Because Mr. Obama is a public figure and because of the importance of this information to the public welfare the ordinary rules of confidentiality do not apply. I will be happy to pay your normal processing fee.

Sincerely,

Mitchell Langbert

Janice Okubo
Department of Health
State of Hawaii
1250 Punchbowl Street Room 326
Honolulu, Hawaii, 96813


Dear Ms. Okubo:

This is a freedom of information act request for the birth certificate of Barack Obama, born August 4, 1961. Because Mr. Obama is a public figure and because of the importance of this information to the public welfare the ordinary rules of confidentiality do not apply. I will be happy to pay your normal processing fee.

Sincerely,

Mitchell Langbert http://mitchell-langbert.blogspot.com/2008/06/freedom-of-information-act-request-for.html

36 posted on 07/01/2008 1:46:42 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Non-Sequitur

Good luck finding forty eight year old documents in a third world country.

It’s on him to prove he’s a natural born citizen. Constitutionally required.


37 posted on 07/01/2008 1:47:06 PM PDT by JohnnyP
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To: Slapshot68
Don’t they have to register to run? That would be a good place to begin the screening.

Begin, maybe. But currently I don't know of a single state that does that.

38 posted on 07/01/2008 1:47:09 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur

Looks like it’s part of the the Immigration and Nationality Act.

http://www.theodora.com/ina_96_title_3.html

“g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 1 of the International Organizations Immunities Act (59 Stat. 669; 22 U.S.C. 288) by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person (A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or (B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 1 of the International Organizations Immunities Act, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date;”


39 posted on 07/01/2008 1:48:11 PM PDT by Slapshot68
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To: Red Steel
Obama wants everyone to see him as having the highest of integrity. When there are questions about his past, we find he is hastily sweeping everything under the rug.

Judicial Watch is seeking: “Any and all public documents…resulting from Illinois State Senator Barack Obama’s years in the office (1997-2004) that the ISA [has] in its possession.” Judicial Watch filed its open records request on February 7, 2008, after public statements made by Obama regarding his Illinois State Senate records.

These records are going to be as difficult to extract as is a birth certificate document which will answer the simple question about his place of birth.

There are other deceptions about Obama’s past that the Obama Campaign Machine will put forth to hide an examination on the personal character question. The birth certificate question is an example of the continuous series of deceptions that have been going on since Obama entered the scene. It is an example of a fundamental flaw in his character—deceitfulness—that cannot be a quality for the one we trust in the highest office in the United States.

We cannot allow a candidate to continuously mislead the public, staging fraudulent events, and manipulation the facts of his past in order to slip into the Presidency.

40 posted on 07/01/2008 1:48:16 PM PDT by jonrick46
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To: CedarDave

I would like to see the birth certificate not a certificate of live birth. IN ADDITION, I would like to see proof from the hospital that Obama was born there.

It is beyond belief that a man running for president would not want to resolve this issue quickly.

Why did he wait until clinching the nomination to release the birth certificate? Could it be to keep it away from Hillary’s Camp until the last primaries?

These are basic questions.

The fact too, that one can discern a faint seal is meaningless. Could the document been originally someelse’s that was doctored? Why is the serial number blacked out?

I think the matter should be laid to rest quickly, but I do not see how we the messenger is the culprit here. Obama should explain, WHY did you supply a questionalbly legit document in the first place and not come clean as soon as there was a controversy as you emply you will do to dispel any rumor?


41 posted on 07/01/2008 1:48:56 PM PDT by nikos1121 (The first black president of the US should be a Jackie Robinson, not a Jackie come lately.)
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To: bassmaner

“the Kommie Kos Kooks are probably trying to bait us.”

I don’t think there was any outside agitation necessary for this one.


42 posted on 07/01/2008 1:49:51 PM PDT by james500
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To: JohnnyP
Good luck finding forty eight year old documents in a third world country.

Should be no problem unless they've been stolen or altered in a particular case.

I've requested and received baptismal and birth certificates, etc.

43 posted on 07/01/2008 1:50:03 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurtureĀ™)
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To: bassmaner

You’re absolutely right. There are much more substantive issues on which to oppose Obama than this.

Even if true, there’ll be no way to prove it to the public’s satisfaction, given the state of the MSM.

This can only serve to brand us as kooks and it’ll distract us from addressing the real stuff.


44 posted on 07/01/2008 1:50:14 PM PDT by wolfpat (If you don't like the Patriot Act, you're really gonna hate Sharia Law.)
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To: JohnnyP
Good luck finding forty eight year old documents in a third world country.

How about this first world country? If Obama was born overseas then the local U.S. counsulate would have had to record it. Where are those records.

It’s on him to prove he’s a natural born citizen. Constitutionally required.

Making laws up as you go along doesn't work. How did Bush or Clinton or Gore or Kerry prove they were a natural born citizen? When did they go before the cameras and wave their birth certificates around? I must have missed that part.

45 posted on 07/01/2008 1:50:28 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Slapshot68

Of course this says “:(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions “

Hawaii was a possession so this shouldn’t apply.


46 posted on 07/01/2008 1:51:02 PM PDT by Slapshot68
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To: smoothsailing

If Obama was born in Hawaii he is a natural born citizen of the United States PERIOD. You need to show that he was not born here to begin with. That is still not proven either way.


47 posted on 07/01/2008 1:51:58 PM PDT by nikos1121 (The first black president of the US should be a Jackie Robinson, not a Jackie come lately.)
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To: Non-Sequitur

It’s up to him to prove it. Not us.


48 posted on 07/01/2008 1:52:05 PM PDT by TribalPrincess2U
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To: expatguy; Beckwith

ping of interest..


49 posted on 07/01/2008 1:52:29 PM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: Red Steel

when Kos produced

That’s all you need to know that it’s a lie.


50 posted on 07/01/2008 1:52:43 PM PDT by Bitsy
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