The same KOS birth certificate with filtering.
Posted on 07/01/2008 1:03:52 PM PDT by Red Steel
The section we were previously discussing referred to “a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions.” Any amendments to this section are irrelevant to the discussion.
Now if turns out that he really WASNT born in Hawaii, then he’s got a problem.
That's pretty generally correct. This first came up in connection with Barry Goldwater in 1964. Goldwater was born to two US Citizens in the territory of Arizona before statehood--no doubt about his citizenship. The general understanding among the Constitutional lawyers of the time was that his citizenship was not controlling; there was a general consensus the fact that Arizona had been subsequently incorporated in the union probably made Goldwater eligible to serve although legal challenges were not pursued because it became clear Goldwater had no chance to be elected.
I assume Obama was born after Hawaii became a state in 1959. So, no doubt, if he was born in Hawaii, he is both a citizen and eligible to be President; and, if not, he is neither a citizen nor eligible to be President. Simple as that.
I differ with you in that I see the current record raising a pretty clear inference that he was born in Kenya: The only support for his birth in Hawaii is a couple of clearly fraudulent Birth Certificates; the hospital at which his original claim of birth was directed was not constructed until after his claimed birth; his birth there is not reported in Vital Statistics under any of his historical names and his mother is not reported as the mother of anyone; no single person has come forward with any personal knowledge of his presence or birth in Hawaii in 1961; there is a reported interview of the "grandmother" and two of his half-siblings that purports to claim they were present at his birth in Kenya; and there is the Wayne Madsen update reporting that three investigators hired to investigate Obama's background in Kenya have located official records of his birth in Kenya confirming that his birth occurred in that country.
Can you give me a link to where this is said? I need to convince a daughter-in-law.
IF- it is true- the ramifications for the country are alarming. When is this going to be disclosed- or if not ture- otherwise put to rest...
The lawyer's reaction of alarm is probably a little different than the average citizen. What the constitution says in Article II, Sec. 1, Par. 4 is that "[n]o person . . . shall be eligible to the office of President . . . . " unless they are "natural born".
So assume the issue is not laid to rest--he is nominated, and elected, and purports to be in office. All of his acts are void because he is not "eligible" to be President--and should be open to challenge in any available legal forum. I don't think they are likely to get away with faking it for that reason.
I am going to use the opportunity to respond to you to sum up the current status of the effort and effect of this issue.
I assume there is some factual background behind the Israel news reports regarding the investigation and product thereof, Kenya birth records demonstrating that Obama was born there. I assume further that he will never be able to produce a provable Certificate of his birth in Hawaii although it should be recognized that the Hawaii birth records employees are probably Liberals who support Obama and who will participate in any reasonable effort to support his position.
But, it is not clear how you construct a legal challenge to his candidacy.
There isn't any obvious "start suit" avenue because there is no direct present controversy between the position that he is not eligible and the position that he is--for the reason that the argument is still hypothetical; he may not be nominated; he may not be elected. So the court's would generally hold there is no "present case or controversy".
And there is also legal doubt who would have legal "standing" to pursue such a claim.
There is factual doubt--it is important that whoever makes the first political attack have as much real hard data as is available; there are still opportunities for investigation in both Hawaii and in Kenya. Work is ongoing.
And there is political doubt. The Clinton's are concerned that if they are seen as behind a challenge at this point, it would impair their ability to get the nomination when Obama falls. Further, there is some deal that not only gets Mrs. Clinton support in paying her campaign debt but also commits to "consider" her for Vice President. The Clinton's believe that her nomination as Vice President, followed by his removal from the top of the ticket on grounds of ineligibility to serve, would be her best avenue to the White House. So they are presently standing still.
And there are political reservations among Republicans on several grounds. Later is better; McCain has a similar exposure; and there will be a political backlash against the perpetrators.
So this isn't going to move very fast in July and the first half of August.
Pressure from the internet would help. Further, organizing an independent financial effort that raised financial support, probably in the range of five million dollars, might have sufficient resources to effectively pursue the issue in some legal or political setting. At present, that kind of effort does not appear.
In this context, it should be noted that someone has sufficient resources to have started federal court actions in every state in which McCain won the primary seeking as a remedy, decertification of the McCain delegates on the grounds of his ineligibility to serve. McCain forces have not, to the best of my present knowledge, mounted any effective effort to have any of these cases dismissed on procedural grounds.
If I had sufficient resources to pursue the effort, I might consider seeking to consolidate all the McCain actions in a multi-district litigation forum with a similar attack on the Obama delegates. Obviously, the court you chose needs to be amenable to the fact that the case requires a fast track to get a resolution. That kind of effort would work only now--weeks hence is too late.
“Obama has produced a perfectly acceptable birth certifcate”.
Uh, he has produced a fraudulent document.
If there aren’t enough resources to challenge him now; who would be in the position to challenge his acts, to render them void, if he ever obtained the position of Presidency?
There is an entire Net reach of resources, many of us just need instructions. Can we start a campaign of contacting the USDOJs of various state offices? Or the Election Law offices of various states? Just tell us what needs to be done.
Really?
I hadn’t heard that...
Whew...
So as a non-lawyer, I’m assuming a few simple FOI requests for relevant documents would be insufficient.
Of course I expect for those requests to have weight, there would need to be some kind of background proof- probable cause- sort of information.
I think you may be right. A large number of FOIs may hold weight for a cause.
So if the Demagogues wake up one morning and suddenly realize they have to amend the US Constitution in order that a President Obama may lawfully serve, it will be ‘interesting’ to see what ensues...... since I don’t think a successful effort to amend the Constitution would take place in less a year, even if they could pull it off...... unless both parties decide they have to pull together and do it for McCain + Obama.
I had never heard of Wayne Madsen or this report so I went searching. The below link is what I found reported by Wayne Madsen. Not quite what you posted saying it confirms that he was born in Kenya. They are making the claim that it was the custom to REGISTER the birth of anyone who was born to a Kenyan even if that birth was outside of Kenya.
GOP dirty tricks operatives dispatched to Kenya to dig up any useful "dirt" on Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama, Jr., and his late Kenyan father Barack Obama, Sr., believe they have found a "smoking gun." In this case, it is a birth certificate from the Kenyan city of Mombasa registering the birth of Barack Obama, Jr., on August 4, 1961. However, the registration is a common practice in African countries whose citizens abroad have families with foreign nationals. Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to his Ann Dunham of Wichita, Kansas, and Barack Obama, Sr., of Nyangoma-Kogelo, Kenya. Obama's parents were enrolled at the University of Hawaii. They divorced when Barack Obama was two years old.
It looks like someone will now have to find out if that really is the custom or not.
>>>So if the Demagogues wake up one morning and suddenly realize they have to amend the US Constitution in order that a President Obama may lawfully serve, it will be ‘interesting’ to see what ensues...... since I don’t think a successful effort to amend the Constitution would take place in less a year, even if they could pull it off...... unless both parties decide they have to pull together and do it for McCain + Obama.
Wow, that sounds like the ultimate in amnesty!
It isn’t unusual for other countries to register a birth. I know Israel does it. But, the difference here is, a Birth Certificate was found. That is different language than a registration.
It looks like someone will now have to find out if that really is the custom or not.
It is. But the registration among other things also sets forth the place of birth.
I wouldn't view it as "dirty tricks" operatives to investigate facts regarding the eligibility of the opposing candidate. And further, from what I know, I don't think the operatives were dispatched by the Republicans either.
If my informed guess is correct, the investigators were hired by an offshore political entity that views Obama as a threat.
Information about what they found is in the hands of several parties in Washington DC including the Republicans. So far, there isn't any information out there as to what they intend to do about it.
Do you still have both files?
I need a copy of the “original” image along with one showing the seal.
MM
Well, every year we are told there will be an October Surprise, maybe this will be the year. Not holding my breath
There may be something to this, but Wayne Madsen is a far-left conspiracy loon, so nothing has credibility simply coming from him. If there are credible confirmations that such a document exists then things will get ‘interesting’ — but regard Wayne Madsen as less credible than Bill Burkett and his “Lucy Ramirez”.....
Whatever controversy there may be as to whether the 14th Amendment requires babies born to two illegal aliens to be citizens, the statutes in force today (and back in 1961) clearly provide that they are. Besides which, no one disputes that the 14th Amendment would give citizenship to a child born on U.S. soil to a citizen-mother (or even to an alien mother who is lawfully in the country). So, assuming Obama was actually born in Hawaii, he is a natural-born citizen under any possible view of the law.
Yes I have them. I could post them here or email them to you.
Emailing would be faster for me. I have to find my photobucket account login ID and password.
The images will be uploaded shortly...
The same KOS birth certificate with filtering.
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