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Autism Cures? (Thomas Sowell)
Creators Syndicate ^ | July 15, 2008 | Thomas Sowell

Posted on 07/15/2008 5:08:57 PM PDT by jazusamo

"New Ways to Diagnose Autism Earlier" read a recent headline in the Wall Street Journal. There is no question that you can diagnose anything as early as you want. The real question is whether the diagnosis will turn out to be correct.

My own awareness of how easy it is to make false diagnoses of autism grew out of experiences with a group of parents of late-talking children that I formed back in 1993.

A number of those children were diagnosed as autistic. But the passing years have shown most of the diagnoses to have been false, as most of these children have not only begun talking but have developed socially.

Some parents have even said, "Now I wish he would shut up."

I did absolutely nothing to produce these results. As a layman, I refused to diagnose these children, much less suggest any treatment, even though many parents wanted such advice.

As word of my group spread, various parents would write to ask if they could bring their child to me to seek my impression or advice. I declined every time.

Yet, if I had concocted some half-baked method of diagnosing and treating these children, I could now claim a high rate of success in "curing" autism, based on case studies. Perhaps my success rate would be as high as that claimed by various programs being touted in the media.

If a child is not autistic to begin with, almost anything will "cure" him with the passage of time.

My work brought me into contact with Professor Stephen Camarata of Vanderbilt University, who has specialized in the study of late-talking children— and who is qualified to diagnose autism.

Professor Camarata has organized his own group of parents of late-talking children, which has grown to hundreds, as compared to the several dozen children in my group. Yet the kinds of children and the kinds of families are remarkably similar in the two groups, in ways spelled out in my book "The Einstein Syndrome."

The difference is that Professor Camarata is not a layman but a dedicated professional, with decades of experience— and he too has expressed dismay at the number of false diagnoses of autism that he has encountered.

What Camarata has also encountered is something that I encountered in my smaller group— parents who have been told to allow their child to be diagnosed as autistic, in order to become eligible for government money that is available, and can be used for speech therapy or whatever other treatment the child might need.

How much this may have contributed to the soaring statistics on the number of children diagnosed as autistic is something that nobody knows— and apparently not many people are talking about it.

Another factor in the great increase in the number of children diagnosed as autistic is a growing practice of referring to children as being on "the autistic spectrum."

In other words, a child may not actually be autistic but has a number of characteristics common among autistic children. The problem with this approach is that lots of children who are not autistic have characteristics that are common among autistic children.

For example, a study of high-IQ children by Professor Ellen Winner of Boston College found these children to have "obsessive interests" and "often play alone and enjoy solitude," as well as being children who "seem to march to their own drummer" and have "prodigious memories." Many of the children in my group and in Professor Camarata's group have these characteristics.

Those who diagnose children by running down a checklist of "symptoms" can find many apparently "autistic" children or children on "the autism spectrum."

Parents need to be spared the emotional trauma of false diagnoses and children need to be spared stressful treatments that follow false diagnoses. Yet the "autism spectrum" concept provides lots of wiggle room for those who are making false diagnoses.

Real autism may not get as much money as it needs if much of that money is dissipated on children who are not in fact autistic. But money is money to those who are running research projects— and a gullible media helps them get that money.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: aspergers; autism; dsm; dsmiv; mentalhealth; sowell; thomassowell
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 07/15/2008 5:08:58 PM PDT by jazusamo
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To: AbeKrieger; Alia; Amalie; American Quilter; arthurus; awelliott; Bahbah; bamahead; bboop; ...
*PING*
Thomas Sowell

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Recent columns
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Please FReepmail me if you would like to be added to, or removed from, the Thomas Sowell ping list…

2 posted on 07/15/2008 5:10:55 PM PDT by jazusamo (DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
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To: jazusamo
He doesn't know much about autism... There are those that have a form of autism called Aspergers and they have many issues as well. Seems like many of these "non autistic kids" may well have a form of Autism.

The comment "Some parents have even said, "Now I wish he would shut up." is telling. Aspergers have a hard time with knowing when talking is excessive or not and social issues like that.
3 posted on 07/15/2008 5:20:00 PM PDT by StolarStorm
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To: jazusamo
The diagnostic criteria for Autism/Aspergers as well as other "disorders" is very loose and applies to otherwise normal and healthy children and adults. In Aspergers for example one criteria for diagnosis is simply a failure to socialize with peers. This applies frequently to children who are victims of bullying. In other words if your child is being picked on in school, it means he is autistic in the same way as rainman or other individuals. This label is simply because he or she is ostracized and left out.

I have a good friend of mine who was wrongfully diagnosed with Aspergers for this reason. He was frequently harassed and abused in school and was even raped by classmates. The school did nothing about it and the parents blamed him for what happened. They used the diagnosis as a club to abuse him even after he got out of school. But he had several jobs that required social skills such as working as a training manager, a salvation army soldier and a receptionist. But Despite overcoming a lot of obstacles from this his parents made him lose his job and he became homeless for a time on Skid Row Los Angeles of all places. Well despite claims he cant socialize he did alright there. He survived the ordeal and now lives in Omaha Nebraska and works a part time job but is still recovering.

Parents should be careful of this. Your child could be branded mentally ill or disabled simply for being a victim at school. Its just another example of how psychiatry is run amok.

4 posted on 07/15/2008 5:23:31 PM PDT by mainestategop
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To: StolarStorm
He probably does know much more about autism than what's in this column. I believe he had a late talking child and wrote a book about it.

Late-Talking Children

5 posted on 07/15/2008 5:28:38 PM PDT by jazusamo (DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
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To: jazusamo
One other thing I should point out is that Nazi Germany used to deport people into concentration camps because they were considered antisocial and that “They didn't fit in.” I heard a story about it years ago on PBS about a Woman who was deported because she had Jewish Friends and was considered odd.
6 posted on 07/15/2008 5:35:53 PM PDT by mainestategop
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To: StolarStorm
Seems like many of these "non autistic kids" may well have a form of Autism.

How did you possibly make that diagnosis based on one short essay?

7 posted on 07/15/2008 5:37:11 PM PDT by BfloGuy (It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we can expect . . .)
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To: jazusamo

Dr. Sowell is always informative.


8 posted on 07/15/2008 5:48:50 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Tax-chick's House of Herpets. We're basking - how about you?)
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To: mainestategop

Autism is probably a food related allergy (casein and wheat gluten) compounded by vitamin d deficiency. Autistic kids represent high seropositivity for autoantibodies to casein and gluten (83.3% and 50% respectively). Normal kids seropositivity for the same autoantibodies are represented at 10% and 6.7% respectively.

No compelling evidence exists to support the assertion of causality between the vaccines (MMR and TCVs) and autism.

The dramatic increases of autism cases would be expected given the low serum d scenarious with women of color in northern continents.


9 posted on 07/15/2008 5:49:17 PM PDT by kruss3 (Kruss3@gmail.cailomes)
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To: jazusamo

I have an acquaintance whose grandchild was diagnosed with Autism. She’s a health pro herself, and said that there is a growing conviction among researchers of Autism that later-life parenting is a factor. She said that there are very few young parents (under thirty) of autistic children, and that even older fathers and young mothers have a higher incidence of austism than young parents.


10 posted on 07/15/2008 5:56:23 PM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: jazusamo

You get more of whatever you reward.


11 posted on 07/15/2008 6:05:16 PM PDT by 3AngelaD (They screwed up their own countries so bad they had to leave, and now they're here screwing up ours)
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To: jazusamo

Great book and I recommend it....and everything else that he writes.


12 posted on 07/15/2008 6:16:41 PM PDT by Chickensoup ('08 VOTING, NOT for the GOP, but INSTEAD, for the SUPREME COURT that will be BEST for my FAMILY!!)
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To: StolarStorm
Sowell & Camaratta have done brilliant work on this subject. Please check out Sowell’s books: “The Einstein Syndrome” and “Late Talking Children”. Our son did not speak until until he was 5. Our Pediatrician, after many examinations expressed the opinion he was simply a late talking child who fell at the extreme end of the bell curve.
We were lucky enough to stumble upon Sowell’s book, and found that our child met the description of the children in his book. We were able to avoid attempts by the school district to label him as autistic in order to receive public funding for “special services.” Our son is now 9 and after 4 years of speech therapy, speaks very well, does extremely well socially and is an A student. It is important to note that Sowell does not paint with a broad brush and has come up with some very specific criteria for parents to consider when deciding a course of action that could potentially cause more harm than good.
13 posted on 07/15/2008 6:21:22 PM PDT by 07Jack
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To: jazusamo
1993/1994, my then 2-1/2 year old son was being forced by the "city" into being diagnosed as "ADD/ADH". He wasn't. It's just that he didn't speak as much as girls do at that age. And the standard for speech at the age was based on FEMALE development standards, thanks to the feminists in congress and elsewhere. I was told, directly, I was going to be facing "negligent parent" charges if I didn't automatically submit to agreement with their standards. They told me directly, I would lose my son should I not submit.

In good conscience, I couldn't; because it wasn't true.

I had to seek outside the standard medical health care plan to protect my son and myself from the "state". It cost.

He was given the diagnosis of "aphasic" which is a subcategory of autism; and I agreed to use this phrasing because the Nanny state knew nothing about "aphasia"; and so could not force my son onto drugs, into a program, or me into jail or court.

Later, they tried again, this time trying to label him "autistic". He was placed in a pre-kindergarten class with other "autistic-ADD/ADH" little boys. Only boys. There were no little girls at that entire K-5, labelled "autistic" or "add/adh", then.

He was the only boy in that class who knew his name, could cite his phone number, and count to 20. And, they were at this point stirring him up in class to get him upset; and then telling me of his "obvious" autistic behavior. Yes, I did spy at the classroom windows, after my son telling me HIS side of the story. He wasn't lying. These special ed teachers had singled him out to stir him up.

I pulled him out, asap. Took only a month for the "set-up" to be revealed.

That little boy began college at age 11. He's extremely talented physically and musically, as well as academically.

I'm sorry to have contributed to the burgeoning "labelling business in the name of collecting dollars" for the state; but I truly had no other alternative, THEN, to keeping my son safe, and in my home with his family.

Republicans changed all this in following years, passing legislation in support of parents and their rights. I couldn't have been happier that they did this.

This little boy would play chess with me when he was 5. I shared this, about the chess and the late "speaking" morph to autism, in person with Dr. Sowell, about middle 90s. He knew. lol. He'd already gone through something similar with his own son being a "late talker". What he has seen is how the damned thing morphs. And it's always about the money, the taxpayer dollars, or the personal payments for parents to just go along with effectively pimping their kids.

The worst thing about these overdiagnoses? The real victims of autism and/or ADD/ADH get shuffled around and aside: The help and money doesn't go to where it would do the most good.

And because the numbers of "victims" just really wouldn't be that large enough sufficient to satisfy the demands of most teacher's unions and the politicians they support.

14 posted on 07/15/2008 6:28:11 PM PDT by Alia
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To: 3AngelaD
You get more of whatever you reward.

So true. And proof that often times things are not as complex as they are made out to be.

And before I get flamed by someone with an autistic relative in this thread, yes of course there is autism. That is not the point here.

In for a penny, in for a pound. This also applies in spades to ADD, ADHD and every other variation on that theme.

15 posted on 07/15/2008 6:31:05 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s........you weren't really there)
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To: Alia

Thanks for relating that and I’m glad it worked out for you and especially your son.

I read a column of Dr. Sowell’s some time back on the over diagnosis of autism and the reasons that it’s being over diagnosed, they were a carbon copy of the reasons you stated. I briefly looked in my list of his columns and didn’t find it or I would have posted a link.


16 posted on 07/15/2008 6:39:53 PM PDT by jazusamo (DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
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To: StolarStorm

The hallmark of autism used to be the inability to make any kind of emotional contact with other people. To lump in kids with social problems of a less severe kind is to do a diservice to those children, not because it is “bad” to be autistic; but because real autism is different than what is now called Aspergers and which must be treated differntly.


17 posted on 07/15/2008 6:41:14 PM PDT by utahagen
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To: Alia

What an interesting story. Thanks for sharing it. Years ago my deaf daughter was also diagnosed as autistic, by people who were “observing” her. The whole write up by the teacher was contradictory. I had to go to Gallaudet and speak with a professor there, and found a specialist near my home then (So CA) who had worked with mentally disabled or criminally insane deaf individuals to get this “diagnoses” refuted.


18 posted on 07/15/2008 6:43:47 PM PDT by merry10
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To: kruss3
Well, I'll speak quite frankly. Back when I was undergoing my "state of seige" by the state in re my son, 80% of all boys in my neighborhood were on some type of add/adh/autism drug.

It was bloody awful; mood swings, etc. And then you looked at their siblings, and one could quite readily determine, but never openly opine, that the problem with their "autistic/add/adh" child was really more a parenting problem than there actually being anything amiss, physically, neurologically, with the son(s).

The art of good parenting continues to lose ground among the terminally aggrieved through some danged excuse or another; and the children get further damaged by the labelling and the treatment.

Good parenting. People seem to forget that before the whole "add/adh/autism" jazz began, there were at least two decades of people, and media, and culture BASHING parents. That parents were evil and oppressive. So fast forward to these times, and people are either confused about what parenting is, what it means, what it involves; or they better fear the state; or become a bone-fide supporter of the state.

But raise your children with the time-honored standards you may have received growing up? How ANTIQUATED! How possibly... ABUSIVE.

When I've met very non-add/adh/autistic children but labelled add/adh/autistic, yes, I've wanted so badly to shake that parent to wake up!!!

19 posted on 07/15/2008 6:48:48 PM PDT by Alia
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To: jazusamo

lol. Living in the heart of Liberal Mecca, SF Bay Area, permits one to see the unvarnished facts of any scam, in the name of “for the children”. Mr. Sowell lives in the SF Bay Area. ;>


20 posted on 07/15/2008 6:50:42 PM PDT by Alia
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To: jazusamo

21 posted on 07/15/2008 6:54:44 PM PDT by TypeZoNegative (Barak Obama: An American African, Not An African-American. (There is a Difference.))
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To: jazusamo

interesting article and interesting comments. another possible bias is what docs are paid to diagnose these conditions. I believe psychiatrists are paid more to diagnose and treat bipolar patients and some have said many of these diagnosises are being given out more often than appropriate. Don’t know if this is true or not, or if so, if something similar might be in play for autism. It may also be the case that medical care has advanced to such an extent that people are simply more educated about the disorder and more likely to seek out help to check on children experiencing some delays.


22 posted on 07/15/2008 6:54:50 PM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: merry10
I'm so glad you were able to get solid refutation, and by a credentialed and respected expert. There were either none such entities in the SF Bay Area; or any willing to fight the state on my behalf. No sooner, had I won the first battle for my son, when the state went after my other children. It was one loooong, nightmarish battle after another. They began the practice, legally, of teachers as "facilitators". Pulling my kids out of class asking them if I abused them at home, had guns in the home, what kinds of foods did I have in the home.

And this, in the geographic locale-central of "Say No To War". ha.

23 posted on 07/15/2008 6:56:09 PM PDT by Alia
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To: Alia
There were two and here they are. I'd overlooked them because of the titles but you've probably seen them.

Crusades Versus Caution

Crusades Versus Caution: Part II

24 posted on 07/15/2008 6:59:11 PM PDT by jazusamo (DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
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To: jazusamo
Thank you, jazusamo.

I still have a copy of the checklist. And made at least 200 copies of it. I posted it online. I handed it out at supermarkets, I handed it out at church, I gave it to doctors and dentists, I handed it out to my neighbors.

And absolutely 100% of everyone who did the checklist tested positive for add/adh/. This was in 1993/1994. Before the morph to "autism spectrum".

25 posted on 07/15/2008 7:07:40 PM PDT by Alia
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To: jazusamo
...parents who have been told to allow their child to be diagnosed as autistic, in order to become eligible for government money that is available, and can be used for speech therapy or whatever other treatment the child might need.

How much this may have contributed to the soaring statistics on the number of children diagnosed as autistic is something that nobody knows— and apparently not many people are talking about it.

I thinks its conclusive then, that autism is contagious. It spreads from the child to the parent by way of money.

26 posted on 07/15/2008 7:16:40 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: Alia
Back when I was undergoing my "state of seige" by the state in re my son, 80% of all boys in my neighborhood were on some type of add/adh/autism drug.

When I was a Cub Scout den mother of 8 boys in the early 70's, including my own son, not one other mother would volunteer to help me.

The wildest of the bunch were two brothers, who were on Ritalin. And it was their mother who always, without exception, "forgot" when it was her day to send refreshments. So, I made sure to have something on hand. (Beware, though, never top anything with a marachino cherry.)

Finding the right games for them to play was a test of my ingenuity. If you find yourself in this postion, try tying blown up balloons to the back of their waists, give them rolled up newspapers, and let them swat away!

I guess today that would be called abusive. Then, it was just plain fun for everybody.

27 posted on 07/15/2008 7:35:54 PM PDT by lakey
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To: jazusamo
"For example, a study of high-IQ children by Professor Ellen Winner of Boston College found these children to have "obsessive interests" and "often play alone and enjoy solitude," as well as being children who "seem to march to their own drummer" and have "prodigious memories."

Damn! Apparently I am autistic and never knew it! (I don't doubt the seriousness of 'real' cases of autism, but if kids who meed the loose criteria above are being 'diagnosed' as autistic then something insane is happening)
28 posted on 07/15/2008 7:36:32 PM PDT by Enchante (BILL AYERS: "Now THESE are the Obamas I knew! Thank you, New Yorker, for showing my real friends!")
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To: lakey
You are one smart and resourceful mother, lakey. :)

Why wouldn't other mothers help out with the troop?

(And yes, the sickening irony is seeing children being drugged, ill-raised, when it is so obvious the parent is simply not being adult, by choice).

29 posted on 07/15/2008 7:52:28 PM PDT by Alia
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To: lakey
Finding the right games for them to play was a test of my ingenuity. If you find yourself in this postion, try tying blown up balloons to the back of their waists, give them rolled up newspapers, and let them swat away!

In Girl Scouts we played a similar game but we tied a balloon to our ankles and had to try to pop the other persons balloons before they popped ours. The last one with a balloon was the winner.
30 posted on 07/15/2008 8:26:59 PM PDT by spotbust1 (Procrastinators of the world unite . . . . .tomorrow!!!)
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To: Alia

Well damn.


31 posted on 07/15/2008 8:30:17 PM PDT by mbraynard (You are the Republican Party. See you at the precinct meeting.)
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To: kruss3
Can you reference some research? I find your comments fascinating.

It also suggests that the bulk of autism cases are of women of color.

32 posted on 07/15/2008 8:31:20 PM PDT by mbraynard (You are the Republican Party. See you at the precinct meeting.)
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To: mainestategop

My son was mistakenly diagnosed in Kindergarden with Aspergers syndrome. The doctor told me that because he was overly interested in dinosaurs, trains and space and the fact that he could watch a movie once and then quote you whole scenes from memory this qualified him.

I came home and looked up the syndrome online and it didn’t seem to fit him properly. I spoke to the doctor again and she then told me that he also had ADHD.

Again, I looked up more information online and it didn’t quite fit.

One night while searching for natural treatments for ADHD or Aspergers, I stumbled upon an article that suggested that children with sleep apnea were being misdiagnosed as having ADHD because due to lack of quality sleep, the children were distractable in class and caused disruptions.

I spoke to his pediatrician (different doctor) and informed him that my son did infact snore and had episodes where he choked and stopped breathing. The pediatrician chose to treat him with an allergy nose spray and an asthma medication.

Within a week all symptoms of ADHD and the alleged Aspergers syndrome were gone.

Just goes to show you that those doctors don’t know everything.


33 posted on 07/15/2008 8:34:00 PM PDT by spotbust1 (Procrastinators of the world unite . . . . .tomorrow!!!)
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To: mbraynard
Autism has latitude relevance. The further the distance from the equator the more autism is present. Black male children in the USA are highly over expressed with autism. It is entirely about the amount vitamin d that is convertible from UV radiation from the sun. More melanin in the skin translates into potential for vitamin d deficiency.
34 posted on 07/15/2008 8:53:37 PM PDT by kruss3 (Kruss3@gmail.cailomes)
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To: Alia
I don't know about smart, LOL. I spent most of the week thinking, what do we do next.

One mother told me, "I'm not good with kids." Her son developed a little crush on me.

The mother of the two boys owned a shoe store, and I gave her some slack.

They lived in a two-story home and the oldest son set fire to a trash basket and threw it down the clothes hamper chute. A ploy for attention?

The other mothers just said they were too busy - maybe they had smaller children, I don't remember.

One thing sticks out in my mind was when we were having a parade in downtown Yorba Linda. My husband "volunteered" to teach our Scouts to march. He called them "Troops." (He used to be a Marine Corps D.I.)

They paid strict attention to him and marched like little pros.

Another time, we took two cars and drove to Knott's Berry Farm and Liberty Hall, a replica of Independence Hall, for our group only. If I recall right, there was a speaking robot. I think he read the Declaration of Independence.

Inside, they were wiggle-worms, sliding from one bench to another. Nobody told them to sit still, as they weren't harming anything, or talking. Next day, some mothers called to say how much their son enjoyed it. I could have sworn none of them heard a word said.

Children want attention and they like discipline. They accept authority when it is for their good.

Yes, it is sickening to see what is happening to our youth - our future. And I think it is deliberate.

35 posted on 07/15/2008 8:56:26 PM PDT by lakey
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To: lakey
Children want attention and they like discipline. They accept authority when it is for their good.

I remember once at summer camp many years ago spotting our cabin up ahead on the road. I yelled, "Cabin Seven!" They turned around. Then I yelled, "Drop" and they all fell to the ground. It was pretty funny.
36 posted on 07/15/2008 8:59:52 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: jazusamo
Those who diagnose children by running down a checklist of "symptoms" can find many apparently "autistic" children or children on "the autism spectrum."

And all of the colors of that $pectrum are green.
37 posted on 07/15/2008 9:04:10 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: spotbust1
I'm fairly certain that each of my boys had two or three balloons. Couldn't make it too easy for them, or I'd need another game. :)

I know I was pooped out after blowing up all those balloons.

38 posted on 07/15/2008 9:04:44 PM PDT by lakey
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To: aruanan

That is funny!


39 posted on 07/15/2008 9:07:31 PM PDT by lakey
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To: Alia

FOOD FOR THOUGHT:

There are at least ten different neurological functions that could be impaired in the fetus of women who are vitamin d deficient. It is certain that a greater number of people of equatorial genetic history (darker skin) will suffer impaired neurological functions in their children when they reside in the higher latitudes.


40 posted on 07/15/2008 9:14:16 PM PDT by kruss3 (Kruss3@gmail.cailomes)
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To: aruanan
And all of the colors of that $pectrum are green.

Yes, in many cases in education it's the "free" money from the feds and in medicine it's the insurance. The worst thing is they're messing with kids lives in the over diagnosing.

41 posted on 07/15/2008 9:20:35 PM PDT by jazusamo (DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
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To: jazusamo

Based on my limited knowledge of this subject, Dr. Sowell is 100% correct. Thanks to the Americans with Disabilities Act, the left has found a new way to prise tax dollars out of all levels of government. Just have your child be declared “autistic” or “asperger” or ADHD or whatever else, and you’re suddenly entitled to piles of other people’s money. Kinda cool, eh?


42 posted on 07/15/2008 9:26:31 PM PDT by Antoninus (Every second spent bashing McCain is time that could be spent helping Conservatives downticket.)
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To: kruss3

Your posts are fascinating. Our oldest daughter is what hubby terms “brilliant.” And she is. But she is so different from her peers and always has been. She has always been more mature. She has always been a bookworm and studies what she wants rather than what anyone else wants. She would always do just enough to get by in school in classes that required her to turn in work. If she were lucky enough to be in a class that only required her to read and regurgitate (science classes), then she easily Aced the course. If she were given a bunch of projects to do, she may or may not do the projects depending on her interest. Anywho, we’ve homeschooled her for several years. She hardly ever goes outside and has occasional times when she craves milk. We really have to force her to go outside during the day when she is engrossed in whatever subject has her attention. I will have to read more about this Vitamin D stuff.


43 posted on 07/15/2008 9:30:17 PM PDT by petitfour
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To: lakey
You did some wonderful things for the boys and their families, lakey. Seems like just average stuff (balloons), but it is those that are the hallmark memories of childhood. Taking them on fieldtrips where they could be boys. I grew up in a household full of boys; and knew I was lucky to be a part of and understand "boy world".

I concur with your lament in re what is happening to children; and that what is being done to them is deliberate.

Children want attention and they like discipline. They accept authority when it is for their good.

Yes, this has been my experience with children, too. But what has also been my experience is that children will also accept negative authority, and this is the worry. Teachers teaching that whites are racists; the world's going to end; Christopher Columbus was evil.

I was a girl scout troop leader alongside two other mothers, and we ran a renegade troop; meaning, GSA had gone totally politically correct; and we simply ran our troop on our terms, bypassing the PC stuff. Absolutely marvelous troop. Snowpacking in Yosemite; camping; setting up Gold Mining era recreation "villa" at the Black Diamond mines; sewing, responsible land management, etc. And, all the families of each troop member was actively involved: Dads, brothers, sisters, grandparents, aunts, uncles. So, when we went on an event, say camping, we had to reserve a huge portion of campground. When we organized an event, it was a huge event, took a lot of work organizing, and was wonderful right down to every last detail. It was wonderful. The troop members felt cradled inside the cocoon of a safe community. Which, for the Bay Area, was a wonderful thing for them, for all of us.

You think your balloons were crazy? I won't tell you about our sleepovers, lol!

44 posted on 07/16/2008 3:51:35 AM PDT by Alia
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To: lakey
You did some wonderful things for the boys and their families, lakey. Seems like just average stuff (balloons), but it is those that are the hallmark memories of childhood. Taking them on fieldtrips where they could be boys. I grew up in a household full of boys; and knew I was lucky to be a part of and understand "boy world".

I concur with your lament in re what is happening to children; and that what is being done to them is deliberate.

Children want attention and they like discipline. They accept authority when it is for their good.

Yes, this has been my experience with children, too. But what has also been my experience is that children will also accept negative authority, and this is the worry. Teachers teaching that whites are racists; the world's going to end; Christopher Columbus was evil.

I was a girl scout troop leader alongside two other mothers, and we ran a renegade troop; meaning, GSA had gone totally politically correct; and we simply ran our troop on our terms, bypassing the PC stuff. Absolutely marvelous troop. Snowpacking in Yosemite; camping; setting up Gold Mining era recreation "villa" at the Black Diamond mines; sewing, responsible land management, etc. And, all the families of each troop member was actively involved: Dads, brothers, sisters, grandparents, aunts, uncles. So, when we went on an event, say camping, we had to reserve a huge portion of campground. When we organized an event, it was a huge event, took a lot of work organizing, and was wonderful right down to every last detail. It was wonderful. The troop members felt cradled inside the cocoon of a safe community. Which, for the Bay Area, was a wonderful thing for them, for all of us.

You think your balloons were crazy? I won't tell you about our sleepovers, lol!

45 posted on 07/16/2008 3:52:15 AM PDT by Alia
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To: mbraynard
What my family was going through in the early 90s was not unusual - it was happening and being done all across the U.S. Mine is neither the worst story, nor a solo event.

I homeschooled my children. The state (run by Dems) was trying to assert that homeschooling was illegal, and going after parents who homeschooled. It was bad in states run by Democrats, and with a Democrat President. Parents did have their children taken away from them and put in foster care. Mine, was a fight with the state every single year. I was lucky.

46 posted on 07/16/2008 3:57:46 AM PDT by Alia
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To: kruss3
That is certainly food for thought.

By contrast then, wouldn't it also make sense that people with lighter skins living close to the equator have other such problems? Like too much Vitamin D?

47 posted on 07/16/2008 4:01:26 AM PDT by Alia
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To: jazusamo
Yes, in many cases in education it's the "free" money from the feds and in medicine it's the insurance. The worst thing is they're messing with kids lives in the over diagnosing.

In re the first battle re my son; although I kept him mostly free from the nanny-state, in order to work around the state coming after me, I did have to concede to having him at a very "special" school for special needs children. He was 3/3-1/2. After two months of being there, his special ed teacher, a truly gifted woman, pulled me aside and asked me why my son was there; she saw nothing wrong with him. Rather than involve her in my saga; I just shrugged.

My point is this, the taxpayers were footing the bill for this school and program. Democrats have been trying to not only force private companies to fund "day care"; but to force children into schools at younger and younger ages. I saw first-hand, that this was one way of accomplishing their goals - creating a "need" for getting kids into "programs" earlier and earlier.

I never took or looked for a single penny from the state; I was trying to avoid their clutches, rather than attempt in any way to "benefit" from their taxpayer Largesse schemes.

Then the school "closed", and all the students were assigned to a regular pub ed school, with classrooms and special ed teachers. And that's where the second adventure I relayed comes in. My son was there for just over a month. After I pulled him, the district head of "special education" called me, raking me over the cools, and telling me that if I pulled him out now, she'd see that he never got special ed status again! I said "Fine!" and hung up the phone. My son did not enter a classroom again, until he was 11 and qualified to enter a college classroom. (And yes, of course, I'd had to fight for that, too.)

And all during those years was that smarmy cocooning swampmucking dictum about homeschooling kids not being "socialized".

Liberals only want children socialized on their own terms: Dictating who the children shall socialize with, and how.

And I see a Democrat congress, and a potential Democrat President, and I see Dejavu.

48 posted on 07/16/2008 4:15:41 AM PDT by Alia
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To: Alia

Stories such as yours make me very grateful that we’ve managed to stay “under the radar” since our boys were born! It probably helped that we moved a lot. 4 out of 5 could be “diagnosed” as ADD or Autism Spectrum, based on the checklists that the public school use.


49 posted on 07/16/2008 4:19:54 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Tax-chick's House of Herpets. We're basking - how about you?)
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To: Tax-chick
When we moved to NC, I was holding my breath as we worked out the kinks to continue the education process for two of my children. Nervous? Ready for a battle? yep. lol. So battle scarred were we. But this is NC, and homeschooling is a whole 'nother story here. We were poker-faced-shocked when there was no eye-brow lifting, no special demands to see if we carried the "mark of Christ" on our foreheads, when we said we were "homeschooled".

Tax-chick, on our move out, and we hit Oklahoma and saw our first Pro-Jesus billboard, we went into shock. "That's allowed here?" was our complete reaction.

And thus you see here, the difference between the SF Bay Area, and elsewhere around the U.S.

Once out of CA, one can see so much clearer how bad things have gotten in the Bay Area. How punched down people are in the Bay Area.

When you live there, you move through the hoops as best you can. But once away from it, you get to see the awful enormity of what is and has been taking place in the San Francisco Bay Area.

50 posted on 07/16/2008 4:37:05 AM PDT by Alia
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