Problem solved:
L
Posted on 07/29/2008 7:23:14 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
When you pistol only has 2.9 inches of barrel length, an addtional 1.2 inches IS A BIG DEAL.
Problem solved:
L
Nice gun. But it can be improved on.
Since you’re so determined to remain stuck in the dark ages, I’m surprised you didn’t post a pic of a single action spur trigger percussion revolver. And what’s with the fancy shmancy stainless? Blued steel works just fine.
BTW, if that little ruger is 357 magnum, that short barrel really cuts down on the power. 357 mags do NOT like short barrels. Short barrels hurt performance of 357 moreso than any other pistol round. For factory loads, 9mm+P actually outperforms 357mag in very short barrels.
yeah, I'm not a physics guy, so perhaps I overlooked the fact that that same energy is just converted to the opposite direction by the recoil spring. still needlessly complex. driving the next round up a feedramp and into the chamber is problematic enough for me, especially on a carry gun.
What's that, 25 fps? 50?
Big deal is right.
Depending on the caliber and the load, powder type, etc, the difference of a 3” barrel vs a 4” barrel could potentially be as much as 100 lb-ft of muzzle energy. But that’s not all. Accuracy will also be enhanced.
Any firearm with a barrel shorter than 4 inches is only good if you're in a gun fight in an elevator anyway.
I've got 2 'carry' pieces. One's a Sig .229 in .380 and the other is a Charter Arms Bulldog in .44 Spcl.
Either one is compact and light enough to carry all day and at gun fight ranges have more than enough punch to stop a fight.
I'm not against technological advances in firearms. On the contrary, I love it. But I just don't see what problem this pistol 'solves'.
L
Nice, how thick is the weapon? I’d be interested to see how it compares with the Walther PPS.
It 'solves' the requirement for an extra cartridge length in the pistol design. That's about it. It is a neat new little pistol though.
Barrel length is not a factor in accuracy. Sight radius is, though. I think I'd rather have the extra inch of sight radius than the extra inch of barrel.
This works for me. Maybe a good choice for an ankle gun though.
I’ve always liked those olk HKs. But I never liked the price they wanted for them. So I still don’t have one. I think they made a short barreled version too, but I could be wrong.
Barrel length has no effect on accuracy? Really? So if I put a red dot sight on a 1-7/8” barrel revolver and a red dot sight on a 9” barrel revolver, they should shoot the same, since the red dot sights negate the difference in sight radius? Is that what you are saying?
I think you are smoking something there in your trailerpark.
That's exactly what I'm saying. As long as the barrel is long enough to stabilize the projectile obviously.
While longer barrels in rifles can produce greater velocities, which can reduce time of flight, and the resultant effect of wind drift and bullet drop, they do not produce greater "accuracy." In fact, shorter barrels of comparable thickness are stiffer, thus reducing barrel whip.
I think you are smoking something there in your trailerpark.
LOL, I'm just stating what is common knowledge in the shooting circles I bounce around in.
I got my two P7s for $599 ea. There are a bunch of German police trade-ins currently on the market. Mine looked brand new, not even any holster wear. Sold my lightly used P7M8 for $1200 and bought these two. You need two of them to train with so you have one to shoot while the other cools down after 50 round or so.
Exactly my point. $600 for a USED 20 YEAR OLD 9mm 8 round handgun is too rich for my blood. I don’t care if it is “like new” condition. It is a really cool little gun though. I really came close to buying one a few years ago. But the salesman just didn’t have a crow bar big enough to pry open my wallet. The asking price was about $800-900, iirc.
Can you explain to me why you sold a P7M8 for 1200 so you could buy two P7s for 600 each? The P7m8 has an american style mag release button AND a heat shield so you don’t have to worry about the overheating. I don’t understand your logic whatsoever.
I do not believe a 1-7/8” barrel snubby revolver has accuracy equal to a long long barreled revolver. I don’t care what the sights are. I agree with your statement to a point. But not for 1-7/8” barrels. Those little lightweight J-frame snubbies are notoriously inaccurate. So was my old 3” bbl 45 colt. And I don’t care what the sight radius on that little colt is. You could take the sights off completely and it wouldn’t hurt the accuracy any.
I just had a memory flashback from when I was a kid. My grandfather had a very old italian made (or was it spanish?) semi auto pistol that fired 380 rounds, or possibly 9mm, I don’t remember. That thing was really cool to look at but it was a total piece of junk. I can’t exactly remember what it looked like, but it seems like it was a miniature version of a 1911 colt, with some features that reminded me of a james bond 007 walther. The bullet traveled so slow that you could watch it all the way to the target. And you could actually SEE the slug tumble as it flew. I suppose part of the problem could’ve been that he was using 30-40 year old ammo coverd in green fuzz. Ole gramps had lotsa shoe boxes full of that funny green fuzzy/crusty ammo. He had a strange philosophy towards firearms. He didn’t clean them. He considered them disposable. He believed in quantity, not quality. There were crusty old firearms all over the place at his house. He had them in his trunk, in his glovebox, in his tackle box, his tool box, under the kitchen sink, under the matress, in the attic, the basement, the garage, the shed, in his golf club bag...everywhere. The only place he didn’t have a firearm was in his pocket. His favorite handgun was a little nickle plated 5 shot 38 top break revolver that he inherited from his dad. I have that revolver now. THat thing is a total piece of junk. I’d be scared to shoot it. There’s no rifling left in it. the firing pin is bent, and the cylinder doesn’t always stop when you cock it. Sometimes the cylinder skips a chamber when you cock it...YIKES.
And all his firearms were always loaded, with one in the chamber. Years after grandma died, I got a few laughs out of the reactions of his lady friends that accidentally discovered a firearm here and there in the house. Finally, he married one of them. And her nephew was over visiting one day. Keep in mind that gramps was well into his eighties by then, so the nephew was past retirement age. The nephew accidentally found a firearm hidden in the living room and the idiot picked it up and pulled the trigger. He shot a hole right through the ceiling. Grampa made him patch the ceiling...PERSONALLY. That was really funny. A sixty plus year old retired man that doesn’t know a thing about manual labor was up on a ladder with plaster getting scolded all the while by grampa. It was like I was watching grampa making me(or one of my cousins) do something for him (as punishment) at age 12 or 14, except the person he was scolding was an old man I never met.
Grampa’s been gone 10 years now. I do miss him.
Oh, the memories.
Boy did I get off on a tangent this time.
Like new is like new; steel doesn't age (enough to matter in this context). And my guns were made in the early 90's. I hope you don't think guns from the 90's are too "old." But you are correct: anything made by HK has a premium price tag, but I happen to think these specific guns are a bargain.
Can you explain to me why you sold a P7M8 for 1200 so you could buy two P7s for 600 each?
LOL, because I now have two guns instead of one? Makes sense to me.
The P7m8 has an american style mag release button AND a heat shield so you don’t have to worry about the overheating. I don’t understand your logic whatsoever.
The heel release on the P7 is very easy to use. You push it in and the mag ejects. It's not like some heel releases where you have to push it towards the rear and hold it while you insert the mag. And as far as the heat shield on the M8, it was marginally effective, at best. I have found very little difference in how fast each model heats up to the point of being uncomfortable.
With a 1x14" twist, if a .38, the bullet may not be stabilised in such a short barrel. No doubt there are other factors in belly guns that limit their accuracy. My only point is that increased barrel length ALONE does not make for better accuracy.
2 guns instead of one...
You are a little like my ole gramps. NOt completely because he would never have coughed up 600 for one pistol. He would’ve gone for 20 guns @ 50 bucks apiece...and a half dozen shovel fulls of nasty green covered surplus ammo.
Or maybe that’s just how it appeared to me because he kept the good stuff out of my sight.
MSRP $849.00 — TOO EXPENSIVE
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