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New (PEER-REVIEWED!) Paper Demonstrates Lack of Credibility for Climate Model Predictions
Journal of Hydrological Sciences ^ | D. KOUTSOYIANNIS, A. EFSTRATIADIS, N. MAMASSIS & A. CHRISTOFIDES

Posted on 07/31/2008 7:13:36 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum

On the credibility of climate predictions

The Abstract states:

Geographically distributed predictions of future climate, obtained through climate models, are widely used in hydrology and many other disciplines, typically without assessing their reliability. Here we compare the output of various models to temperature and precipitation observations from eight stations with long (over 100 years) records from around the globe. The results show that models perform poorly, even at a climatic (30-year) scale. Thus local model projections cannot be credible, whereas a common argument that models can perform better at larger spatial scales is unsupported.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: climatechange; environment
This is a really big deal - a PEER-REVIEWED paper which proves that climate (general circulatioln) models are not reliable.

The ONLY proof the global warming hoaxers have is general circulation models.

We need to shove this down their throats.

The first and last thing you tell them is that it is PEER-REVIEWED.

1 posted on 07/31/2008 7:13:36 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum
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To: E. Pluribus Unum; enough_idiocy; rdl6989; IrishCatholic; Normandy; Delacon; ...
 




Beam me to Planet Gore !

2 posted on 07/31/2008 7:15:14 PM PDT by steelyourfaith
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To: M. Dodge Thomas
Have you seen this?
3 posted on 07/31/2008 7:16:40 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Public policy should never become the captive of a scientific-technological elite. -- Ike Eisenhower)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum; All
THE ACQUITTAL OF CARBON DIOXIDE
by Jeffrey A. Glassman, PhD

ABSTRACT:

"Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is the product of oceanic respiration due to the well-known but under-appreciated solubility pump. Carbon dioxide rises out of warm ocean waters where it is added to the atmosphere. There it is mixed with residual and accidental CO2, and circulated, to be absorbed into the sink of the cold ocean waters. Next the thermohaline circulation carries the CO2-rich sea water deep into the ocean. A millennium later it appears at the surface in warm waters, saturated by lower pressure and higher temperature, to be exhausted back into the atmosphere. Throughout the past 420 millennia, comprising four interglacial periods, the Vostok record of atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration is imprinted with, and fully characterized by, the physics of the solubility of CO2 in water, along with the lag in the deep ocean circulation.

Notwithstanding that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, atmospheric carbon dioxide has neither caused nor amplified global temperature increases. Increased carbon dioxide has been an effect of global warming, not a cause. Technically, carbon dioxide is a lagging proxy for ocean temperatures. When global temperature, and along with it, ocean temperature rises, the physics of solubility causes atmospheric CO2 to increase.

If increases in carbon dioxide, or any other greenhouse gas, could have in turn raised global temperatures, the positive feedback would have been catastrophic. While the conditions for such a catastrophe were present in the Vostok record from natural causes, the runaway event did not occur. Carbon dioxide does not accumulate in the atmosphere."

http://www.rocketscientistsjournal.com/2006/10/co2_acquittal.html

_______________________________________________________________

The graph above represents temperature and CO2 levels over the past 400,000 years. It is the same exact data Al Gore and the rest of the man-made global warmers refer to. The blue line is temps, the red CO2 levels. The deep valleys represent 4 separate glaciation periods. Now look very carefully at this relationship between temps and CO2 levels and keep in mind that Gore claims this data is the 'proof' that CO2 has warmed the earth in the past. But does the graph indeed show this? Nope. In fact, rising CO2 levels all throughout this 400,000 year period actually lagged behind temperature increases ...by an average of 800 years! So it couldn't have been CO2 that got Earth out of these past glaciations. Yet Gore dishonestly and continually claims otherwise. Furthermore, the subsequent CO2 level increases never did lead to additional warming, the so-called "runaway greenhouse effect" that Al Gore and his friends keep warning us about. -ETL

_______________________________________________________________


"The above chart shows the range of global temperature through the last 500 million years. There is no statistical correlation between the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere through the last 500 million years and the temperature record in this interval. In fact, one of the highest levels of carbon dioxide concentration occurred during a major ice age that occurred about 450 million years ago [Myr]. Carbon dioxide concentrations at that time were about 15 times higher than at present." [also see 180 million years ago, same thing happened]:
http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=010405M

_______________________________________________________________

So, greenhouse [effect] is all about carbon dioxide, right?

Wrong. The most important players on the greenhouse stage are water vapor and clouds. Carbon dioxide has been increased to about 0.038% of the atmosphere (possibly from about 0.028% pre-Industrial Revolution) while water in its various forms ranges from 0% to 4% of the atmosphere and its properties vary by what form it is in and even at what altitude it is found in the atmosphere.

In simple terms the bulk of Earth's greenhouse effect is due to water vapor by virtue of its abundance. Water accounts for about 90% of the Earth's greenhouse effect -- perhaps 70% is due to water vapor and about 20% due to clouds (mostly water droplets), some estimates put water as high as 95% of Earth's total tropospheric greenhouse effect (e.g., Freidenreich and Ramaswamy, 'Solar Radiation Absorption by Carbon Dioxide, Overlap with Water, and a Parameterization for General Circulation Models,' Journal of Geophysical Research 98 (1993):7255-7264).

The remaining portion comes from carbon dioxide, nitrous oxide, methane, ozone and miscellaneous other 'minor greenhouse gases.' As an example of the relative importance of water it should be noted that changes in the relative humidity on the order of 1.3-4% are equivalent to the effect of doubling CO2.

http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/

_______________________________________________________________

Water Vapor Rules the Greenhouse System

Water vapor constitutes Earth's most significant greenhouse gas, accounting for about 95% of Earth's greenhouse effect (4). Interestingly, many 'facts and figures' regarding global warming completely ignore the powerful effects of water vapor in the greenhouse system, carelessly (perhaps, deliberately) overstating human impacts as much as 20-fold.

Water vapor is 99.999% of natural origin. Other atmospheric greenhouse gases, carbon dioxide (CO2), methane (CH4), nitrous oxide (N2O), and miscellaneous other gases (CFC's, etc.), are also mostly of natural origin (except for the latter, which is mostly anthropogenic).

Human activities contribute slightly to greenhouse gas concentrations through farming, manufacturing, power generation, and transportation. However, these emissions are so dwarfed in comparison to emissions from natural sources we can do nothing about, that even the most costly efforts to limit human emissions would have a very small-- perhaps undetectable-- effect on global climate.

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

4 posted on 07/31/2008 7:21:46 PM PDT by ETL (Plenty of REAL smoking-gun evidence on the demonRats at: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: ETL
Seen that.

It's not peer-reviewed.

The global-warming hoaxers will sniff their noses and discount it.

5 posted on 07/31/2008 7:26:12 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Public policy should never become the captive of a scientific-technological elite. -- Ike Eisenhower)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

bookmark for morning


6 posted on 07/31/2008 7:27:09 PM PDT by EBH ( ... the riotousness of the crowd is always very close to madness. --Alculin c.735-804)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Enviormentalism is mind pollution!


7 posted on 07/31/2008 7:34:18 PM PDT by CyberSpartacus
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

No, they have no peers—Lord Gore has NO PEERS, and could care less about what a few scientists have to say...


8 posted on 07/31/2008 7:34:59 PM PDT by richardtavor (Pray for the peace of Jerusalem in the name of the G-d of Jacob)
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To: SirKit

Ping!


9 posted on 07/31/2008 7:51:03 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
The global-warming hoaxers will sniff their noses and discount it.

It's a fact. Rising CO2 levels throughout that entire 400,000-year interval (Vostok Ice Core record) *followed* temperature rises. Furthermore, once the oceans warmed and began releasing their dissolved CO2, no significant additional temperature increases resulted from it. Read the data for yourself. The present is on the right hand side of the graph. The ups and downs are the results of periodic glaciations (apprx every 100,000 years)


10 posted on 07/31/2008 7:58:18 PM PDT by ETL (Plenty of REAL smoking-gun evidence on the demonRats at: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

No, they have no peers—Lord Gore has NO PEERS, and could care less about what a few scientists have to say...


11 posted on 07/31/2008 8:10:34 PM PDT by richardtavor (Pray for the peace of Jerusalem in the name of the G-d of Jacob)
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To: richardtavor; All
Lord Gore has NO PEERS, and could care less about what a few scientists have to say...

32,000 Scientists Dissent From Global Warming “Consensus”:
http://americanelephant.wordpress.com/2008/05/19/32000-scientists-dissent-from-global-warming-consensus/

Project Petition: Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide:
http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.htm

12 posted on 07/31/2008 8:23:18 PM PDT by ETL (Plenty of REAL smoking-gun evidence on the demonRats at: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

INTREP


13 posted on 07/31/2008 8:24:26 PM PDT by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: ETL

Actually you are missing the most important, telling detail about this chart. Under Al Gore’s hypothesis, the lines should never cross, but they DO cross.


14 posted on 07/31/2008 8:35:12 PM PDT by ikka
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To: ikka; All
The most important thing(s) about the graph, imo, is the fact that temperatures shot-up almost immediately after reaching their low points (the 4 major glaciation periods) AND it hadn't a thing to do with CO2. The rising CO2 levels (the red lines) FOLLOWED the temperature increases (not the other way around as Al Bore would have us believe). Again, the present is on the right of the graph.


15 posted on 07/31/2008 9:16:53 PM PDT by ETL (Plenty of REAL smoking-gun evidence on the demonRats at: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum; All
If you look at the chart below, you will see that sunspot activity (during solar maxes--the individual peaks) has been relatively high since about 1900 and almost non-existent for the period between about 1625 and 1725. This period is known as the Maunder (sunspot) Minimum or "Little Ice Age".

From BBC News [yr: 2004]:
"A new [2004] analysis shows that the Sun is more active now than it has been at anytime in the previous 1,000 years. Scientists based at the Institute for Astronomy in Zurich used ice cores from Greenland to construct a picture of our star's activity in the past. They say that over the last century the number of sunspots rose at the same time that the Earth's climate became steadily warmer."..."In particular, it has been noted that between about 1645 and 1715, few sunspots were seen on the Sun's surface. This period is called the Maunder Minimum after the English astronomer who studied it. It coincided with a spell of prolonged cold weather often referred to as the "Little Ice Age". Solar scientists strongly suspect there is a link between the two events - but the exact mechanism remains elusive."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3869753.stm

It's really hard to imagine how this little ball of fire could have any impact on our climate at all.

But the main arguments being made for a solar-climate connection is not so much to do with the heat of the Sun but rather with its magnetic cycles. When the Sun is more magnetically active (typically around the peak of the 11 year sunspot cycle --we are a few yrs away at the moment), the Sun's magnetic field is better able to deflect away incoming galactic cosmic rays (highly energetic charged particles coming from outside the solar system). The GCRs are thought to help in the formation of low-level cumulus clouds -the type of clouds that BLOCK sunlight and help cool the Earth. So when the Sun's MF is acting up (not like now), less GCRs reach the Earth's atmosphere, less low level sunlight-blocking clouds form, and more sunlight gets through to warm the Earth's surface...naturally. Clouds are basically made up of tiny water droplets. When minute particles in the atmosphere become ionized by incoming GCRs they become very 'attractive' to water molecules, in a purely chemical sense of the word. The process by which the Sun's increased magnetic field would deflect incoming cosmic rays is very similar to the way magnetic fields steer electrons in a cathode ray tube or electrons and other charged particles around the ring of a subatomic particle accelerator.-ETL

____________________________________________________

There's a relatively new book out on the subject titled The Chilling Stars. It's written by one of the top scientists advancing the theory (Henrik Svensmark).

http://www.sciencedaily.com/books/t/1840468157-the_chilling_stars_the_new_theory_of_climate_change.htm

And here is the website for the place where he does his research:
2008: "The Center for Sun-Climate Research at the DNSC investigates the connection between variations in the intensity of cosmic rays and climatic changes on Earth. This field of research has been given the name 'cosmoclimatology'"..."Cosmic ray intensities – and therefore cloudiness – keep changing because the Sun's magnetic field varies in its ability to repel cosmic rays coming from the Galaxy, before they can reach the Earth." :
http://www.spacecenter.dk/research/sun-climate

100,000-Year Climate Pattern Linked To Sun's Magnetic Cycles:
ScienceDaily (Jun. 7, 2002) HANOVER, N.H.
Thanks to new calculations by a Dartmouth geochemist, scientists are now looking at the earth's climate history in a new light. Mukul Sharma, Assistant Professor of Earth Sciences at Dartmouth, examined existing sets of geophysical data and noticed something remarkable: the sun's magnetic activity is varying in 100,000-year cycles, a much longer time span than previously thought, and this solar activity, in turn, may likely cause the 100,000-year climate cycles on earth. This research helps scientists understand past climate trends and prepare for future ones.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/06/020607073439.htm

It appears the sun has been more magnetically active (more sunspots, etc) during the past 60-70 years than at any time during the past 11,000+...

From a well-referrenced wikipedia.com column (see wiki link for ref 14):
"Sunspot numbers over the past 11,400 years have been reconstructed using dendrochronologically dated radiocarbon concentrations. The level of solar activity during the past 70 years is exceptional — the last period of similar magnitude occurred over 8,000 years ago. The Sun was at a similarly high level of magnetic activity for only ~10% of the past 11,400 years, and almost all of the earlier high-activity periods were shorter than the present episode.[14]"

[14] ^Solanki, Sami K.; Usoskin, Ilya G.; Kromer, Bernd; Schüssler, Manfred & Beer, Jürg (2004), “Unusual activity of the Sun during recent decades compared to the previous 11,000 years”, Nature 431: 1084–1087, doi:10.1038/nature02995, . Retrieved on 17 April 2007 , "11,000 Year Sunspot Number Reconstruction". Global Change Master Directory. Retrieved on 2005-03-11.


"Reconstruction of solar activity over 11,400 years. Period of equally high activity over 8,000 years ago marked.
Present period is on [the right]. Values since 1900 not shown."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_variation

16 posted on 07/31/2008 9:18:09 PM PDT by ETL (Plenty of REAL smoking-gun evidence on the demonRats at: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Later


17 posted on 08/01/2008 1:31:40 AM PDT by preacher (A government which robs from Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.)
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To: richardtavor; xcamel
Sadly, their religion (AGW) does not allow debate.

Only conversion of the infidels to “green” holiness.

18 posted on 08/01/2008 4:26:27 AM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum; Killing Time; Beowulf; Mr. Peabody; RW_Whacko; honolulugal; SideoutFred; ...


FReepmail me to get on or off
Click on POGW graphic for full GW rundown
Dr. John Ray's
GREENIE WATCH

The Great Global Warming Swindle Video

Not Evil Just Wrong (mash here)


19 posted on 08/01/2008 4:29:50 AM PDT by xcamel (Conservatives start smart, and get rich, liberals start rich, and get stupid.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
He's been involved for a while in a lively discussion over on the "pro AGW" site realclimate.org - which, BTW, he says is one of the only places he's been able to get a hearing:

"Having posted a comment earlier (and waiting — and trusting — it to appear on RealClimate) I take the opportunity to express my gratefulness to RealClimate and its contributors, for hosting and disseminating some of my thoughts and ideas. A couple of comments that I posted in another occasion were very kindly received and replied in RealClimate (even though they might be different from the majority of ideas I read in RealClimate) and subsequently widely read and disseminated. I really appreciate this, particularly because I have experienced difficulties in publishing my ideas (including some of the articles I mentioned in my earlier comment..."

Which is one reason I recommended that even AGW skeptics look in there occasionally.

http://realclimate.org/index.php?p=310

My take watching the discussion is that the vast majority of the professional science researchers on RC are pleased by the appearance of a skeptic who is not a fool or a crank, and delighted at the opportunity for the rest of us to watch the way in which real scientific discussion and debate is conducted by real scientists.

As for his analysis, and the discussion, it's well beyond my ability to evaluate, what is clear is that a) the professional climate-research contingent over on RC regard him as a peer and take his views seriously, and that 2) they think that though he raises very interesting questions, his general conclusion are unwarranted.

I would note, though, that this is another example of someone from outside the climate science community arriving on the scene to announce that everyone else has got it all wrong, and that the track record of such skeptics to date had been very poor.

You also need to keep in mind that this is a criticism of the modeling process, not the underlying atmospheric physics and chemistry which predict global warming - if you asked him if he believed that our understanding of atmospheric physics and chemistry should lead us to suppose that "greenhouse effects" are considerably heating the atmosphere, my guess is that he would say "Oh yeah. Sure, no question...".

The situation is sort of like mathematical modeling of what happens to the occupants of an automobile in collision: you can question the adequacy of the modeling, but that doesn't alter your understanding of the overall practical result based on your understanding of physics and biology- in fact to the extent that or modeling does not allow us to accurately and reliably predict the consequences of increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases, that makes the situation more worrisome, not less.

20 posted on 08/01/2008 5:28:12 AM PDT by M. Dodge Thomas
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