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Tourists Trek to Mexico for 'Death in a Bottle' (Euthanasia)
ABC News ^ | 7/31/08 | Susan Donaldson James

Posted on 08/02/2008 10:55:23 AM PDT by wagglebee

If Don Flounders waits for the asbestos-related mesothelioma that is ravaging his lungs to kill him, it will be a slow, painful death.

passport death
Don and Iris Flounders sought help from Exit International when he was diagnosed with mesothelioma, a terminal cancer. The couple traveled to Mexico in January to buy Nembutal so they can take their own lives when the time is right.
(ABC News)

But one day -- maybe just weeks away and at the moment of his choosing -- the 78-year-old plans to drink a bitter mixture of alcohol and pentobarbital, a barbiturate that is used to euthanize pets.

Flounders told ABCNews.com that he flew halfway around the world from his native Australia to obtain the illegal drug in Mexico, which, like Switzerland, is fast becoming one of the recommended destinations for so-called death tourists.

The lethal drug, once widely available in the U.S. as a sleep aid and now used primarily in veterinary medicine, was an ingredient in the fatal cocktails that killed Marilyn Monroe and Judy Garland in the 1960s.

Since 2001, the pro-euthanasia group Exit International has helped nearly 300 people -- mostly Australians, New Zealanders and a handful of Americans -- to find what is being called "death in a bottle" in pet pharmacies in Mexico.


(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Mexico; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: euthanasia; moralabsolutes; prolife; suicide
"Ask any woman," she said. "The back alley is a dangerous and degrading place to get medical care. It used to be the VW bus and Dr. Kevorkian. Now it's the vet pharmacy."

The hubris of these people is sickening.

1 posted on 08/02/2008 10:55:24 AM PDT by wagglebee
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To: cgk; Coleus; cpforlife.org; narses; 8mmMauser

Pro-Life Ping


2 posted on 08/02/2008 10:56:08 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 230FMJ; 50mm; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; An American In Dairyland; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


3 posted on 08/02/2008 10:56:39 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 8mmMauser; BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Dante3; Sun

Ping


4 posted on 08/02/2008 10:57:22 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
Mainstream media pushes euthenasia. Those folks look like happy bellier-uppers at a tavern.

Reminds me of a t-shirt I saw an attractive girl wearing once. It showed a series of skeletal figures in various sexual positions. It was kind of sickening, really. And no matter how she indicated that she would have appreciated my attention, I was simply polite and that was that.

5 posted on 08/02/2008 11:01:35 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand (when did the circus freak show escape and take over the entire world?)
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To: wagglebee

The moral absolute here is what exactly? That suicide is always wrong? Even in the case of excruciating pain and terminal illness? So that includes the familiar Western practice of allowing pain medication (morphine typically) overdoses to kill people if the dose is needed to stop the pain? Even on the battlefield? You would what, insist on providing benedrine along with morphine to a soldier with both legs blown off bleeding out? Just curious.

Please explain your moral absolute for my edification.


6 posted on 08/02/2008 11:08:12 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: wagglebee

One could say it was their business and no one else’s.

Death from mesothelioma isn’t a pretty way to go.


7 posted on 08/02/2008 11:08:38 AM PDT by swmobuffalo ("We didn't seek the approval of Code Pink and MoveOn.org before deciding what to do")
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To: wagglebee
If they want to off themselves, Okay by me. Just don't try to involve others in it. Don't let them try and debase the medical profession by making them be executioners. You know the thought of leaving with the one you love and being together for eternity is beautiful. But whatever gave anyone the idea that his is the case?
8 posted on 08/02/2008 11:10:16 AM PDT by isrul (Help make every day, "Disrespect a muzzie day.")
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To: Jack Black
The moral absolute here is what exactly? That suicide is always wrong?

Yes.

9 posted on 08/02/2008 11:15:35 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Jack Black
I believe suicide is always wrong, because I believe my life is not mine to end. I did not give myself life so I have no right to deliberately end it. However, if someone else chooses to do so. What can I do? If they choose to end no other life but their own?

As far as a battlefield situation, I cannot comment. As to ending the immediate terrible suffering of another at their request, I don't think I could. I don't think I would ask such a thing of another. But, in truth, you never know. I know it would be wrong to lay that on someone else. But who knows what agony may birth?

10 posted on 08/02/2008 11:18:37 AM PDT by isrul (Help make every day, "Disrespect a muzzie day.")
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To: wagglebee

You know, if I were going to Mexico for death in a bottle, I’d just as soon go down to Tijuana for one last weekend at the clubs. That way, I’d at least have fun on the way out.


11 posted on 08/02/2008 11:18:44 AM PDT by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich! (What'd I say?))
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To: RichInOC
Yeah. And you may have no need to continue your journey.
12 posted on 08/02/2008 11:20:16 AM PDT by isrul (Help make every day, "Disrespect a muzzie day.")
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To: wagglebee

Seems like the Flounders are floundering.


13 posted on 08/02/2008 11:25:55 AM PDT by Jagman
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To: swmobuffalo
One could say it was their business and no one else’s.

The ultimate question is, who owns your life? The premise of many on the left seems to be the State. The premise on much of the right seems to be God. They're both equally full of it.

14 posted on 08/02/2008 11:26:14 AM PDT by Live and let live conservative ($)
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To: Live and let live conservative

The State can decide if they want to dehydrate and starve you to death.

The State has decided that you cannot make that decision for yourself.


15 posted on 08/02/2008 11:29:15 AM PDT by ladyjane
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To: All

I am conflicted.

We give our pets more alleviation to their suffering than we allow ourselves.

If one has ever visited a hospice or palliative care setting where ‘life’ is struggling to breathe, having diapers changed irregularly if one is still functioning, and shots to alleviate pain because one cannot swallow medication except water or liquids. Most hospice centers now administer higher than regular morphine doses to keep the suffering to a minimum and ease the person into the next step.

What would you want for your loved one? Youself?

Selfish? Perhaps - but what of those left behind to make those decisions when we could spare them and make our own decisions while we are healthy and of sound mind, and then relax and enjoy life as it happens for us.

I think there should be choice for some who have already exited ‘life’ as we know it and are waiting for that final breath, perhaps in pain and/or discomfort. Hopefully they aren’t aware of the reality of their situation.

Forgive me if I have offended anyone - it is my own personal conundrum and am not insisting it is the right way or the only way.


16 posted on 08/02/2008 11:34:48 AM PDT by imintrouble
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To: Jack Black
I would suggest morphine, tourniquets and plasma. A lot of solders have had their legs blown off in Iraq and are living good lives with prosthetics.

I don't disagree with your broader point though. I don't want doctors to administer the drugs, but if people with painful terminal conditions want to end their lives, that's their decision. I have no problem with their being able to buy what they need to do it.

17 posted on 08/02/2008 11:40:17 AM PDT by Hugin (Mecca delenda est!)
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To: wagglebee

Why go all the way to Mexico for barbiturates when there is plenty of stuff in your medicine cabinet that will kill you. People O.D. everyday intentionally or unitentialy) on mixtures of alcohol and tranquilizers, opiates and/or antidepressants. Sheesh. Think people!!


18 posted on 08/02/2008 11:48:10 AM PDT by ExtremeUnction
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To: ladyjane
The State has decided that you cannot make that decision for yourself.

They have and I find that immoral.

19 posted on 08/02/2008 11:48:39 AM PDT by Live and let live conservative ($)
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To: wagglebee

Why go all the way to Mexico for barbiturates when there is plenty of stuff in your medicine cabinet that will kill you. People O.D. everyday intentionally or unitentialy on mixtures of alcohol and tranquilizers, opiates and/or antidepressants. Sheesh. Think people!!


20 posted on 08/02/2008 11:49:27 AM PDT by ExtremeUnction
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To: wagglebee

Why go all the way to Mexico for barbiturates when there is plenty of stuff in your medicine cabinet that will kill you. People O.D. everyday intentionally or otherwise on mixtures of alcohol and tranquilizers, opiates and/or antidepressants. Sheesh. Think people!!


21 posted on 08/02/2008 11:50:18 AM PDT by ExtremeUnction
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To: Live and let live conservative

“They’re both equally full of it.”

Only in the sense that you can do as you damn well please with your life.

If the state disagrees with your decision to end it there isn’t much it can do about your decision.

On the other hand if God disagrees He can address the subject at a later date.


22 posted on 08/02/2008 11:57:08 AM PDT by TalBlack
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To: TalBlack
Only in the sense that you can do as you damn well please with your life. If the state disagrees with your decision to end it there isn’t much it can do about your decision. On the other hand if God disagrees He can address the subject at a later date.

Sounds fair enough to me.

23 posted on 08/02/2008 12:10:33 PM PDT by Live and let live conservative ($)
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To: wagglebee

Hey just move to Oregon and apply for medical care. They’ll deny you chemo but offer an alternative death paid by the taxpayers.


24 posted on 08/02/2008 12:25:54 PM PDT by xkaydet65 (Freedom is purchased not with gold, but with steel.)
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One of my main concerns is that if we embrace euthanasia as a society, it will soon be lost as an individual decision and become something the state dispenses. And, if the state makes that decision, they now have the ultimate authority over life and death and whether or not YOU are worthy of existence. As hard as it is to think about someone dying a painful death, I am reminded of Paul’s words that our troubles here are only light and momentary sufferings. That perspective keeps me going.


25 posted on 08/02/2008 12:29:30 PM PDT by Arkansas Toothpick
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To: Live and let live conservative

Except Oregon, where they recommend state assisted suicide because they cannot afford your medical bills.


26 posted on 08/02/2008 12:38:12 PM PDT by tbw2 (Freeper sci-fi - "Sirat: Through the Fires of Hell" - on amazon.com)
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To: tbw2

Are all of you who are against a human’s innate right to decide how long they live, and under what conditions...you must all be against the death penalty as well. I mean, how dare the state have the power of life and death. Doesn’t God value a criminal’s life?

I say off yourself if you so choose, its your damn decision. And all of you who are arguing against it are spitting into the wind...what effect do you think you can have on someone who has decided to just end it all? You think typing words on the internet has any effect? If I had terminal, painful, excruciating cancer like this guy did, and had ALREADY lived a full life, I’d laugh at you busybodies and probably spit in your face if I could...then challenge you to stop me from offing MYSELF.

“No! I’m healthy and happy and I like to live! So you must live! I don’t give a damn about your unbearable pain, you just deal with it! My situation is everyone’s situation and my way is the only way! God will get you if you don’t heed my words!!”

Pretty “Conservative.” FTR, I’m pro death penalty AND believe YOUR life is YOURS. Not society’s.

It just amazes me that there are thousands of babies murdered each day, WITH NO CHOICE, and the outcry is barely above a whisper, but an old man with a terminal disease can’t off himself without hands being wrung. Yes, I know most here are anti-abortion, in words anyway...the same meaningless words that are used to deny this old man HIS comfort.


27 posted on 08/02/2008 12:53:43 PM PDT by White Rutter
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To: RichInOC

My first thought when I saw the headline was that there was some new tequila, with a new type of worm in it...


28 posted on 08/02/2008 1:26:41 PM PDT by Left2Right ("It's going to be a long eight years...")
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To: White Rutter

Well said - it is what I was feeling when I read his story.

I was terrified to tread into the lost baby situation - as you were not - but it was a great comparison.

We are all bound to account for our own decisions, not what others (individual or government mandated) insist upon in our relationship with consequences of our decisions.

Some people choose suicide their whole lives through by their own decision of lifestyle - alcohol, drugs, crime, even smoking - anything which will be a detriment to a fully lived healthy life. Society doesn’t speak up until the results claim their victims.

Not enough people take this seriously throughout their lives - always looking for confirmation or protestation in life choices.

We can only make our own if they are to be valid.


29 posted on 08/02/2008 1:43:37 PM PDT by imintrouble
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To: White Rutter

The point Mr Rutter, is that life is precious. You say that the outcry here about abortion is barely a whisper? You need to read more FRiend.

Just as a childs life is not ours to take, neither is your own.

And just to satisfy your humanist view, lets talk about the ‘slippery slope’. Just as in many other things that start out ‘voluntary (income tax, Social Security, etc), once you get the Gov’t involved, legislating on an issue, once the Gov’t has a financial interest (Medicare, National Health Care if it comes), STANDBY for “Mr Rutter, we have determined that your probable remaining years do not warrant the cost of the treatment to keep you alive. Prepare yourself.”


30 posted on 08/02/2008 3:53:58 PM PDT by RoadGumby (Ask me about Ducky)
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To: RoadGumby

I didn’t say the outcry ‘here,’ I said ‘the outcry.’ The difference is small, but key. If I say ‘the public is stupid,’ its a far cry from saying ‘Mr. Gumby is stupid,’ or ‘The Shriners are stupid,’ and it can hardly be suggested I was singling an individual/group out. If you had bothered to read further, you would have seen that I acknowledged that 99.9% of ‘true posters’ here are anti-abortion...that still doesn’t excuse the fact that a baby WAS DROPPED THIS INSTANT INTO A WASTEBASKET IN AMERICA, and you people are too busy worrying about a TERMINALLY SICK MAN FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY GOING ABOUT HIS BUSINESS IN ANOTHER FOREIGN COUNTRY. Seems real ‘Conservative’ to tell grown people from another country, dealing with another foreign country, engaging in lawful behavior, how to behave.

See how it might seem small now?

I like the humanist smear...was it my concern over your lack of concern about baby murder that clued you in? How disingenous of you. How clever...Why didn’t the Germans think to shout ‘Nazi’ at the Allies first? They could have had the moral high ground based on words, not fact...like you.

Man I have a real barn burner for you...since you’re all so dead set against suicide, let me pose a hypothetical that has proven to be anything but hypothetical since one man considered another his brother in arms.

When a man chooses to throw his body on a grenade, he is in essence choosing to end his life. You can’t have it both ways, his motivations may be different, but the Bible doesn’t say that shalt not kill yourself unless thou hast a good reason...so then, this man, who willingly sacrificed his life, knowingly, to spare himself the pain of hurt mates(like cancer pain, I imagine...like a malignant lump right where you breath, thats how a dead friend feels), to spare his mates their pain, he instead sacrifices himself. I guess then its your contention he’s in hell. If not, please explain the special rules that apply...he did it to avoid pain, his mental and their’s physical, and through love...this old man is doing it to avoid pain, and his wife through love. Too bad your nose is under the tent.

I guess thousands and thousands of brave veterans the World over, not just the US of A, I guess they’re all burning in hell because they charged a pill box with no chance of surviving, or they threw themselves on a grenade, to take the blast...right. What about US/British airmen who ran out of ammo and rammed bombers? The examples are endless.

I also find it highly amusing that you presumably want increased gov intervention (pass a law against suicide maybe? we could punish the surviving family maybe) to head off increased gov control. Bravo! Brilliant!

Since many of you think the basis for this is Biblical, and think you go to hell if you relieve your own suffering, I wonder how many of you follow the other rules of the Bible as strictly. IIRC, the Bible also says marriage is for life. Perhaps you could pass a law, to prevent more laws, that marriage IS indeed legally for life...in the name of freedom, of course. It would seem to me that this arbitrary intepretation of God’s word seems a lot like the arbitrary interpretation of our immigration laws. I guess like the gov, God only meant for us to follow the rules that we most agreed with.


31 posted on 08/02/2008 7:24:35 PM PDT by White Rutter
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To: White Rutter

I am pro-life, pro-death penalty, and I do realize that in the face of horrific suffering, suicide may be the more human option.
My comment meant to point out that the only state with legalized euthanasia has been denying a few patients care. In the same rejection letter of medical treatment, their state assisted - and paid for - euthanasia is mentioned.


32 posted on 08/02/2008 8:49:27 PM PDT by tbw2 (Freeper sci-fi - "Sirat: Through the Fires of Hell" - on amazon.com)
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To: wagglebee
Pray for an end to euthanasia and the conversion of the world to a mindset of life!

33 posted on 08/02/2008 9:07:40 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Jack Black

Apparently, it’s preferable that you die screaming in pain if you have some nasty form of cancer. Can’t have you checking out a moment sooner than you would have otherwise. That means no morphine drips, either. uh uh. You might die an hour or two sooner with the morphine drip than you might have without it.


34 posted on 08/02/2008 9:14:35 PM PDT by FixedandDilated
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To: wagglebee
Pinged from Terri Dailies

8mm


35 posted on 08/03/2008 4:02:43 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: wagglebee
Pinged from Terri Dailies

8mm


36 posted on 08/03/2008 4:02:43 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: White Rutter

Another great post. I like your defense - even though it is unnecessary.

We have all been blessed with personal choice. Our mandate is not to ignore that gift in fear but to use it to make decisions for ourselves.


37 posted on 08/03/2008 5:04:11 AM PDT by imintrouble
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To: White Rutter

Your barn burner fizzled badly. You are in fact, comparing apples and frogs. I’ll try to explain the difference.

A person who reacts to a life threatening situation, by putting themselves in Harms Way, is doing so NOT to kill themselves. They are protecting others. What greater gift to give than your life for another. There is no selfishness in this act, no ‘me’ involved, only the desire to let others live.

A person commiting suicide, is doing that for themselves. There is nothing else but the ‘self’ in a suicide.

There, barn fire is out.

Gods rules are to follow. Failing to follow is part of who Man is. Failing to follow one does not excuse failing to follow others. It means though that you need to refocus and get back to following.

In no way did I advocate more Gov’t laws or controls. There are too many now, for everything. I was pointing out that Gov’t laws on this will eventually lead to forced ‘suicides’ when you are no longer ‘worth’ keeping around. See Europe for reference.


38 posted on 08/05/2008 4:23:41 PM PDT by RoadGumby (Ask me about Ducky)
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