Posted on 08/13/2008 6:42:34 AM PDT by shrinkermd
In the interest of full disclosure I will say that I do not have a degree. I have worked at the supervisory level and hired both degreed and non-degreed people. Actually you couldn't tell much difference in their work, altho those who “came up” through the manual labor path were much more apt to be on-time or early to their job station/desk.
I did find some of the college graduates rather angry when non-grads were promoted over them. They seemed to think they had earned recognition by virtue of their degree regardless of their performance. They also seemed to have a predisposition to disqualify, out of hand, any who did not have a degree. The two best employees I ever had were not college graduates, but they did have around 15 years of experience in the job area.
Personally I believe there are two roads to success and both depend on the person. College certainly won't hurt you if you can overcome the propaganda spewed in some courses, but hard work and determination are still required when you finally get THE JOB. For those who choose to skip college and start work right out of highschool there is also opportunity, but the chances are it will be much more difficult to access that opportunity and take much longer.
However, those non-grads who persevere and do finally get the chance seem to excel over those who are given it because of their education. I believe it is because the windowing out process is much more severe. Just my personal experience.
“For that matter, certification tests can be used for purely academic disciplines.”
(From the article.)
Immigrants and BA graduates?
Perhaps, but there have been several posts to indicate otherwise.
We have those. They're called "trade schools". The mandated classes are intended to turn out a relatively broadly educated individual. That some people don't take advantage of the opportunity is to their detriment.
Could not agree more. And, I might add, inflates their sense of their actual market-place worth. I hire lots of technicians, and the ones with college often think very highly of themselves compared to our other guys who have no college; but they rarely perform at the same level.
They typically are not as mature as guys of the same age who didn't go. They don't have the tenacity that is needed to stay with a problem until it is resolved. They don't have the drive that comes from facing the real world and knowing nothing stands between you and the street but your problem solving ability.
Perhaps you can name one that could not be.
Part of that is by design.
It came about when teachers became "educators" and schools and colleges became more of a business, focused on cash flow, and less focused on what is best and most appropriate for individual students.
To some extent students are now nothing more than consumers of the "product" churned out by schools and colleges.
The NEA and "professional educators" at all levels did everything possible to kill the Vocational/Technical school alternative because they wanted to channel all the state and federal money to themselves. They want students to "buy" their product as opposed to seeking alternatives.
One of the things they had to do to accomplish this was convince government, parents and potential students that every student, no matter how qualified or capable, has a "right" to attend college.
They also had to convince them that college prepared students to step right into a well paying career position as opposed to receiving a broad education.
Of course creating racial resentment and racial pandering is an important part of their strategy to boost headcount and cash flow.
And they have been quite successful as wittnessed by the fact that a huge number of functionally illiterate students graduate from high school and go on to college although not really qualified to do so.
A generation or two ago many of these students would have been encouraged to learn a trade through apprentice programs, OJT or Vo-Tech school - now they are rushed into college.
Yes, another facet to this problem is the distinction between vocational and liberal arts education. A healthy society needs both, but the higher education has diverted “liberal arts” for different purposes. I’m in favor of completing the necessary liberal arts education during ages 15-20 in one’s home town, before attending other institutions requiring the mandated courses.
Technicians typically don't need college. However, Engineers do. Why are you hiring technicians with college degrees?
Oh well, what are you gonna do? It’s nothing to get uptight about. The pocket protecter crowd makes good use of college when it comes to hard sciences. Feel better now?
The funny thing about my BBA in Economics is that it allowed me to very clearly explain why I was unemployed (and unemployable) for such a long time..........
The pity is that so many students, regardless of talent or brainpower, assume that they will go to college/university where they will be taught at the level our WWII vets experienced in high school.
Former colleges have renamed themselves “university,” as if that makes the level of teaching/learning higher. BUT it does allow them to charge a king’s ransom in tuition and fees. So, four or more years later, said student emerges with little more than a high school diploma in practical terms.
Instead of renaming themselves so pretentiously, they might contemplate becoming training institutes where the students learn a real-world skill at a fraction of the cost, and actually find themselves employable.
We do have extremely gifted students who benefit from a hard-core educational experience, but the notion that every student has to go to and graduate from Fluff University is patently absurd.
I see more salesmen with pocket protectors than engineers!
And yet, studies show that the higher the level of education, the more hours per week the person works. People with less than a high school degree work the least hours, while people with a graduate degree (especially people with an MBA, JD or MD) work the most.
Which has generally been my experience- people who motivate enough to get through a tough graduate program such as business, med or law school are much harder workers than the type of quitter who drops out of high school or can't get their act together enough to finish college.
Never graduated from college and I can guarantee you that I am better educated across a broader field than 90% of Bachelor's holders out there.
Someone really struck a nerve with you. Whatever it takes to make you feel better.
My experience is that law school is a piece of cake compared to engineering ...
Read more carefully. I didn't say college degrees, I said college.
I don't need engineers, I need techs who know how to make things work.Often they are guys who have started out in college, but quit for various reasons.
My point was that their college course work is no indicator of that.
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