Posted on 08/13/2008 6:42:34 AM PDT by shrinkermd
Work smarter, not harder :-P A lot of lame workers put in extra hours...to keep up.
People with less than a high school degree work the least hours, while people with a graduate degree (especially people with an MBA, JD or MD) work the most.
Lawyers work ridiculous hours. They are basically slaves. They trade their lives away chasing dollars. Not too smart.
the type of quitter who drops out of high school or can't get their act together enough to finish college.
The money quote. Another bitter badger.
What makes you say that?
Those things, plus a great education, are only one part of going to an Ivy League (and other highly-selective schools).
The other reason people send their kids to Harvard or Stanford is because those schools are the entrance to the elite reaches of our society. Your friends and classmates at those schools are the future top of their various professions and industries. The price tag is the membership fee that gets you into this exclusive club.
Having a degree from one of these institutions opens a lot of doors.
OK. Why are you hiring quitters?
Vo-Tech is regarded by many in this country as a place to send the dummies! Why? Is there something wrong with an aptitude for working with your hands? All the mechanics, carpenters, electricians and plumbers I know are pretty damn intelligent. All are entrepreneurs.
I agree with you that colleges fought hard and won the post-war battle for bodies and wallets by creating the impression that a bachelor's degree was indispensible for having a shot at a middle-class lifestyle. However, college is not for everyone . . . and there should not be any shame in that!
Your entire post was spot on and the excerpt above is an absolute nugget of wisdom. More parents would save themselves a ton of money if they could just wrap their mind around this concept. I place myself in this category after sending two kids to college and taking on significant loans to make it happen. I now highly question my thinking when I placed myself in that trap. It didn't have anything to do with the kids not having the brain power but it was more about the maturity factor.
Such tests would legally have to be made useless to keep them from discriminating against some minorities and women, such as overweighting a subjective essay section. If it involved solving original problems rather than memorization certain groups would dominate.
Medicine, for one. Science and technical areas that require hands-on work in laboratories or workshops (biology and electrical engineering, for example). The arts (it's very difficult to become a self-taught painter, actor or musician).
Engineers are not hired for their broad field of knowlege. They are hired to implement a discipline and need college to get the tools needed for that task.
Depends on the law school and the engineering school.
But my point was that people who have the ability to keep soldiering on through school tend to be harder workers than the dropouts.
You bias is supported by your ignorance.
Very well said! I find it interesting that I teach software programs to college educated individuals in the continuing ed program at a local university yet, I’m not qualified to teach on the academic side of the same university because I don’t have a Masters Degree. In fact, one of the people in my QuickBooks class was a chemistry professor at the same university and said that I should be teaching the Microsoft academic classes there because the professor they have is horrible......LOL
Perhaps. But lawyers, doctors and business-school grads work in professions where there is simply a lot of work that needs to be done. My brother-in-law is doing his surgical residency now. There's simply no way for him to work less hours than required.
Lawyers work ridiculous hours. They are basically slaves. They trade their lives away chasing dollars. Not too smart.
To make a high salary generally requires a lot of work. People have the option of working a less stressful job for less money, but hard-chargers tend to go for the high-paying jobs.
The money quote. Another bitter badger.
Are you channeling Obama?
In many fields, when a problem comes up, it is not an option to go home.
I agreed. I was disputing the need for a broad level of general education for a college degree. Broad education is what high school is for. Engineers should take engineering courses. Scientists need to take science courses.
Gay, Lesbian Transsexual studies or some other politically correct gibberish studies should NOT be required for a good sciences degree.
It depends. In the corporate field, this is definitely not true. Certain "professionals" like doctors and lawyers work notoriously long hours. I don't know about doctors. I would definitely say lawyers are what you call "hard-chargers." I call 'em suckers. Life is too short to waste on meaningless work, at someone else's beck and call, with no life, no freedom.
The problem with some of these hard chargers is they can only function when the track is all laid out for them. That is one reason they excel at school, and later, at jobs like lawyering. It's all cut and dried. Laid out. ALL they have to do is exert themselves and stay focused. They're like hurdlers.
Gross generalization? Sure. It's the internet. Sue me(har har.) But I think there's truth to it. I guess we need someone to shuffle all that paper. Someone's got to do it. But to me, it's a waste of life.
Community colleges do indeed serve a purpose. As you point out, the $300 billion we spend on K-12 education is misused so badly and kids often dont do what they should so end up enemployable at 18 without more schooling. So we pour more money into getting kids educated.
What DOESNT make sense any more is the elite competitive liberal art colleges.
1. First, THEY DONT TEACH LIBERAL ARTS anymore. The "core curriculum" has been hollowed out.
2. Second, they are using 19th century technology (professor in front of classroom) when 21st century 'distance-learning' makes that obsolete.
3. Third, because of the myth of elitism, they are massively overcharging for their product to a group of people (kids with brians) who think they need the credentials to get ahead in life. What if we could credential a kid for a lot lot less?
It's a bit like the situation with oil and OPEC. If we get an 'alternative education' product out there like we might get 'alternative fuels' the cartel would be busted pronto.
Maybe. But I knocked on those doors also, without a degree, and succeeded in landing the job every time. No one should let the lack of a degree stop them from applying. I don't care what they are asking for. If you believe you can do the job, apply for it. Hell, even if you aren't sure you can do it. If you want it, ask for it. Usually, once you get past HR, and get your first interview, college becomes a moot point. You're in the door. Huck and chuck.
I learned this in my near -minimum-wage summer job. In fact, I learned something even BETTER. I learned that most jobs sucked and were tedious and boring, so I'd better get educated so I could have a job that was well-paying and half-way interesting.
All true, but should those lessons cost $200,000 as they do at some Ivy League schools and others?
Absolutely not, if you want some place to teach you how to deal with awful professors, community college can do it cheaper.
The main reason to go to elite schools is to hang out with smart and elite people.
Hmmmm. The "elite reaches". So we have a caste system in this country after all. All those wonderful speeches about the great "melting pot" and of the American "experiment" has come down to what schools you are able to attend. Sounds like old Europe to me. Sucks. Not my idea of what we founded this country to be. We have become a society of "elites" who "rule". F that!!
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