Posted on 08/15/2008 2:27:26 PM PDT by XR7
Yes, too late for that now. I should have more stated that georgia “should not have” allowed itself to have been drawn into a military conflict with russia, for their own sake.
It’s now becoming a renewal or reprise of The Cold War, and we better hope it doesnt become a hot war.
However, your analysis is right on. In thinking more deeply about my examples, you are right that I am not describing what happens when real solid citizens of differing ethnic conditions come together.
What happens is that there are conflicts. In America we had various ethnic gangs and mafias that were at constant war with one another. Even in Los Angeles today a large amount of the gang violence is Hispanic vs. African-American.
I guess we imagine that eventually in America we all came together in a melting pot and moderated our ethnocentric and racist views. What really happened was that lots of people lost touch with their ethnic roots and instead associated themselves with the zeitgeist. These are the people you refer to as moderates.
If I were being more realistic I would say that rational people can rally themselves around rational principles (e.g. freedom, democracy, constitutional government) but their feelings and willingness to die for those abstractions will never be as deep or as heartfelt as the feelings of those who rally around their families, their homeland, and their ethnic heritage.
So I can argue that people should not fight for their land or their ethnic heritage, but instead fight for freedom, democracy, and decent road. But my arguments will be drowned out by the cries of those whose land has been taken, whose ethnic pride has been wounded, or whose family members have been killed.
Putin will visit South Ossetia sometime in the near future. He will be shot by a Georgian assassin. World War IV will commence.
Yes, I think you are right. He shouldn’t have to have outside sources document things such as that, but I suppose this is a sad and valuable lesson to the world.
And the former German Prime minister, I believe, is an executive now with Gazprom. Right?
You do good research. go for it!
I believe this story for very simple and direct reasons.
1st, the Russians have great interests in maintaining control of the tunnel that exits the Caucasus mountains, and a sea approach into Georgia that is unopposed. They do so with the two seperatist, and they hope to be soon independent provinces. They have supported those movements for just these obvious reasons and not out of care for the people's there.
It is a geopolitical gambit to allow direct and immediate access into Georgia and the Caspian region and its resources.
2nd, the Russians were prepared far too quickly with their supposed "retalitory" actions. Putting together that much armor and troops, and the amphibious and naval operations that soon followed is not accomplished in a day or two. Those things had to be in motion for weeks beforehand.
Yet the Russians were ready to go within hours of the Georgians pushing north into South Ossetia. Clearly, the Russians had this planned well before the Georgians ever attacked.
I have no doubts at this point that the Russians helped and urged the Ossetians to attack, and goaded the Gerogians into coming north precisely so they could use it as a pretext for their military actions. Stories that try and view it as something different or being encouraged by the Russians and used as propoganda.
I also have no doubts because it all happened when it did, with the start of the Olympics. That was not just coincidence either.
People's who put their faith and trust in Putin and his ilk are misguided at best, and complicit with his aims at worst. He is not altruistic, and he is not "protecting" them. He is advancing his own plans for power and using naked aggression to do so.
Luckily, the Georgians held out long enough for the Presidents of Poland, Ukraine, Latvia, and Lithuania to arrive in Tiblisi before the Russians could get theere, and before they could kill the Georgian President which they were trying to do. That was one of the most couragous things I have seen done by a group of national leaders in my lifetime...and it worked.
Coupling that with Washington's strong response and Bush now sending the US military to spearhead humanitarian efforts for the Georgians...and at the same time provide a de facto military shield, has to this point halted the Russina military gambit.
The situation is still tense and a crisis for sure, but I believe now that Georgia will survive a free country.
If the populations of the two porvinces voite to go their own way, unfortunately I believe the UN will go along, as will the Russians of course, and Georgia will be deprived of those critical areas for its own defense.
The answer to this will likely be the US and Western Europe seriously upgrading and modernizing Georgia's military, her admission into NATO, and probably US or NATO bases in Georgia to ensure that she is not cut asunder by the Russian capability to at will come through that tunnel and land troops on the shore, all south of the Caucasus.
But make no mistake, the weaponry that the Georgians will utlimately receive in such a scenario, will allow them to do what they could not do this go around...that is target and bring down the tunnel, and target and oppose landing that would otherwise threaten them.
In addition to that, which will work against Putin's designs, there will also be other unintended consequences like the treaty Poland just signed, probably Ukraine's admittance into NATO as well as Ukraine severly restricting the Russian Black Sea fleet use of the base at Sevastapol, and other former satellites much more quickly and solidly being driven into the westen republics camp.
Please recover my post that you erased. Thank you
You may erase the personal info that I included in my post, if you so desire. But i do want the response up
thank you
We have great mods here.
Probably the reason your post got pulled is because FReepers have been harassed when their personal info got out somehow.
So when it comes to personal info, they are very protective.
you wront “yes, yes, yes, how exciting.. and tomorrow you can go to the zoo”
Wow, you know, that is such an amazing argument. You definitely have the logic down
I can’t believe that your family would want to be part of the new Soviet Union. I believe you when you say that the Georgians and Abkhazians hate each other but Georgia has made great strides in the last few years to become more western and less corrupt. It seems like the Georgians have finally been cleansed from your new Soviet state though. You should be proud. The suffering that is coming to the Russian people will probably rival the last century’s and your family gets to be part of it.
Why does every other nation that was under the Soviet jackboot side with Georgia?
If she had murdering our children, No. I would still be beating her.
Why did Georgia attack? It's a simple, relevant, intellectually honest question.
Stuff like this.
The Georgians were goaded into a response and took it.
Sorry, but I find you full of shyteski. In the blog entry posted here initially, somehow you neglected to mention you were Russian, something you were more than willing to admit in the past when you weren’t parroting Russian war propaganda. And, as Orwell once noted, omission is the most powerful form of lie. You’re just a low-grade shill. Call home and tell the boyz to send a better grade of propagandist.
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