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To: traviskicks

I’ve found myself pondering this so-called ‘problem’ of ‘illegal’ immigration of late, and suddenly was struck by the simple, yet retrospectively obvious, solution: amnesty from government. The only way us legals can achieve this desperately needed amnesty from government is by becoming ‘illegal’ ourselves.
As President Kennedy might have said: “Today, in the world of freedom, the proudest boast is “Soy un inmigrante ilegal.””
Just think of the benefits! No Social Security taxes, no Medicaid, Medicare, Federal Income Tax, State Income Tax, Inheritance Tax, Selective Service, and I’m sure I’m forgetting a few! How much greater would our health and retirement benefits be without government throwing us in jail if we don’t roll over and let them ‘arrange’ them for us? The only taxes left to pay might be smallish sales taxes here and there and once again, to paraphrase Thomas Jefferson, it [would] be the pleasure and pride of an American to ask, what farmer, what mechanic, what laborer, ever sees a tax-gatherer of the United States?
Imagine if businesses could return to voluntarily contracting with their employees and discard the hurtful government coerced workers compensation programs? Think how much more they would be able to pay us! Businesses could also, if they so choose and their employees acquiesced, ignore burdensome ‘safety’ regulations, bureaucratic red tape, many worker related litigations, and Union regulations/labor laws. These possibilities would all doubtlessly equate to large increase in our salaries and reduce the prices of our consumer goods.
In conclusion, the benefits to us, the American worker, of becoming ‘illegal’ are more than clear. So, let us take to heart the lessons the present “illegal” immigrants have taught us, stand up for freedom, and lead our nation into the 21st century, creating an orgy of economic growth and prosperity unlike any the world has ever seen. And of course, as Americans always have, we’ll do it by sticking it to government.

But wait!, you say, that is it? You’re through? This is your solution to the immigration problem? Sure, it all sounds great, but it only deals with us. What about them? What are we going to do about the 12+ million undocumented illegals already in the United States and the many more continuously flowing in?
Well, I’m not sure I understand the question. It is the legals, us, who are the problem, we are the ones who have fallen into err; so what is there to do that ‘needs doing’ to the ‘illegals’? From whence does this urge to ‘do something’ about others arise? History has showed the greatest catastrophes have occurred not when free peoples act in their self interest, but when men try to rule other men, via ever expansive and oppressive government. Besides, since we are now all ‘illegal’, I’m not quite sure who ‘they’ are anymore.
Let me now ask you some questions: Did ‘they’, the illegals, voluntarily choose to take incredible risks to immigrate to a country they knew little or nothing about, sometimes knowing no one, often flat broke or in debt, and perhaps not even speaking the language? Were ‘they’ voluntarily hired by employers here and did ‘they’ voluntarily agree to be employed by those employers for an agreed upon amount? Do ‘they’ voluntarily rent or own shelter and do these persons who sell or rent to them do so voluntarily? When ‘they’ go to the store and buy consumer goods do ‘they’ voluntarily choose their purchases and do these stores voluntarily choose to sell to them? Since ‘they’ are doing all these things voluntarily, with the full consent of those around them, please explain what business of it is ‘yours’? As Ayn Rand might have said:
If this is evil, do whatever you please about me, according to whatever standards you hold. These are mine. I am earning my own living, as every honest man must. I refuse to accept as guilt the fact of my own existence and the fact that I must work in order to support it.
But, you protest, it is my concern because my wages are being driven down by illegal immigration, and my job is threatened.
Boo hoo! You sound almost like a Union member bashing Wal-Mart. Why is it that you require government to protect your job or your wage? If your own skill, hard work, diligence, and talent do not intrinsically define your individual value in a position of employment, then you probably didn’t deserve the job in the first place.
Regardless, I’d bet it could be shown by facts and figures that restrictions on immigration, illegal or otherwise, cost Americans jobs and lowers our salaries:

__________________________________________________________________________

With all due respect Travis. This is where I get off the libertarian train.

In theory, the Libertarian Party philosophy is nice. Get rid of the welfare state and than let anyone come to America. Come one, come all. This is bass ackwards and as unrealistic as the Utopian vision for Socialism.

When most Americans came to this country, there was no welfare state or social programs. Come here and seek your lot in life...but if you failed you starved in the street. Even my parents and others who immigrated here legally came here with skills and the mindset that it is an honor and a privelege to be in America and you are only given an opportunity, not a guarantee of success.

You know damn well that the welfare state is not going anywhere. So now we are stuck paying $15,000 per year for every illegal child to educate in publik skools, $2,500 in Medicaid OB/Gyn fees plus free diapers and formula...courtesy of my tax money.

In short, get rid of the welfare state FIRST. Than come and talk to me.


57 posted on 08/26/2008 7:35:19 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084
With all due respect Travis. This is where I get off the libertarian train.

Same here. 

In short, get rid of the welfare state FIRST. Than come and talk to me.

Yup. Our energies should be directed to dismantling the welfare state.  Only heartless bastards would keep the slavery of the welfare state intact.

84 posted on 08/27/2008 7:31:41 AM PDT by zeugma (Mark Steyn For Global Dictator!)
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To: Eric Blair 2084
In short, get rid of the welfare state FIRST.

That's the point, put the priority on attacking socialism then the immigration debate becomes much different.
89 posted on 08/27/2008 10:14:05 AM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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