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Wind Energy Bumps Into Power Grid’s Limits
NY Times ^ | August 27, 2008 | MATTHEW L. WALD

Posted on 08/26/2008 11:16:46 PM PDT by neverdem

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To: gonzo; fabian
Wind-farms are a T.Boone Pickens yer bones dry - the best that wind can ever do is about 4% of the electrical needs of the USA.

He's sellin' natural gas - not a bad idea, but it's a bad idea to lie about it!

Whenever some body holds his cards behind his back, you can be sure he's got the dealer given him the cards he wants ............. FRegards

You are correct but he is taking the current irrational political environment and making lemonade.

T. Boone has a contract with the ports of Long Beach and one other, with L.A. soon to follow, to supply Liquified Natural Gas (LNG) to fuel their container-moving trucks, almost 17,000 of them.. He also owns 12% of a Canadian company that manufactures diesel engines designed to run on LNG which just slip right in where the current engine is. He is also building a fueling network to supply LNG just like gas stations supply gasoline. Additionally, he has convinced several local, state and federal government agencies, as well as some private fleets (Wal*Mart is testing them) to convert to LNG for all their vehicles.

He bought up lots of cheap land in west Texas, some of which he already owns the mineral rights to, where he is installing his turbines. He is also tapping into Ogalala Aquifer to supply Dallas with about five million gallons of water a day. Building that long pipeline is expensive but he is using the right of way for it to piggyback a transmission line for his wind farm, a transmission line he is getting the State of Texas to pay for.

T. Boone may be the new J.R. Ewing but he is certainly no dummy.

21 posted on 08/27/2008 3:16:12 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government)
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To: neverdem

Well, duh. It’s not like those of us who are actually educated in this stuff have not been saying this for a long time. Perhaps the “journalism, political science, and other marshmallow majors” might also try to listen to us about: nuclear power, solar power, gasohol, global warming, etc. In fact, if it’s about science, and it’s written by a journalist or a politician, you had better just burn it and free those trapped carbon molecules.


22 posted on 08/27/2008 3:17:56 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: gleeaikin
Right now the two barriers to installing it are the high cost of solar installations, which will improve as thin film technology is developed, and the fact that I use far less electricity than I would be able to produce

Then just put up what you need.

23 posted on 08/27/2008 3:55:59 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (RATs...nothing more than Bald Haired Hippies!)
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To: neverdem

WHY NOT USE THE CURRENT INTERSTATE HIWAY RITE OF WAYS FOR TRANSMISION LINES? WOULD BE CHEEPER THAN HAVING TO BUYING NEW RIGHT OF WAYS.


24 posted on 08/27/2008 4:29:00 AM PDT by G-Man 1
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To: Ancient Drive

Right on... wind may not suck but it blows! Nuke is the way!

LLS


25 posted on 08/27/2008 4:38:24 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer ( REAGANISM not communism)
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To: gonzo
Wind-farms are a T.Boone Pickens yer bones dry

T. Boone didn't make his money by putting HIS money at risk.

26 posted on 08/27/2008 4:59:20 AM PDT by N. Theknow (Kennedys: Can't drive, can't fly, can't ski, can't skipper a boat; but they know what's best for us)
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To: G-Man 1
"WHY NOT USE THE CURRENT INTERSTATE HIWAY RITE OF WAYS FOR TRANSMISION LINES? "

When first built, the Interstate Highways network was part of our National Defense plan. The highways would double as military landing and take off strips. High Tension lines would not be suitable then.

Of course this situation may no longer prevail...

27 posted on 08/27/2008 5:35:18 AM PDT by drc43 (NO Drilling for prosperity!!....Nancy Pelosi)
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To: Mind-numbed Robot
"He bought up lots of cheap land in west Texas"

Not true.

He has made deals with many landowners to build the windmills on their property and then pay them a royalty on the power generated. Many of these landowners are the same landowners who are participating in Mesa Water, who will be paid royalties on the water from the wells on their land.

28 posted on 08/27/2008 5:36:43 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Secret Agent Man
Waiting for the first turbine to fall over from failure and topple a whole slew of other windmills.

That'll be a long wait.

29 posted on 08/27/2008 5:39:25 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (Proverbs 24:21 My son, fear the LORD and the king; Do not associate with those given to CHANGE)
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To: gleeaikin
Aside from major transmission lines, small scale wind and solar could make a serious dent in the fuel problem.

Excuse me? Small scale is not related to the transmission issue. However, I appreciate your positive attitude about renewable energy very much.

30 posted on 08/27/2008 5:40:55 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (Proverbs 24:21 My son, fear the LORD and the king; Do not associate with those given to CHANGE)
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To: gonzo
He's sellin' natural gas - not a bad idea, but it's a bad idea to lie about it!

Especially the part about how increased demand will spike CNG pricing. Sure, it's cheap now, but demand will drive the price through the roof, at least for the mid term. There's also the costs associated with the infrastructure that will have to be built to distribute CNG for use in automobiles. Pickens never mentions that little ditty.

Another thing Pickens is doing is quite well detailed here in this Business Week article. He's buying up water rights to the Ogallala Aquifer, one, because he knows that water will be in high demand in the coming decades, and two, he gains eminent domain power by forming a water utility. Look closely and you will see that the two are closely tied together because the State Legislature recently passed a law allowing power lines to be piggybacked onto water line rights-of-way. Pickens has his hands in many cookie jars and pockets, especially the Texas State Legislature....

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_25/b4089040017753.htm?chan=search

31 posted on 08/27/2008 5:41:46 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Silence is not always a Sign of Wisdom, but Babbling is ever a Mark of Folly. - B. Franklin)
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To: G-Man 1
"Why not use the current Interstate Highway right-of-ways?

This was the concept behind the Trans Texas Corridor system.

New multi-modal corridors would be built to accommodate roads, rails, pipelines, power lines, etc.

32 posted on 08/27/2008 5:41:52 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: drc43

A lot of installations are now underground. 345kv transmission lines.


33 posted on 08/27/2008 5:42:05 AM PDT by Travis T. OJustice
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To: fabian
o yeah...have you seen what the wind farms in Sweetwater Texas has done in providing alot of jobs and alot of very cheap electricity? T Boone is no dummy, he’s not getting behind a technology that is not feasible.

Nor is GE, nor Seimens, nor BP, nor Shell, etc etc etc.

34 posted on 08/27/2008 5:42:59 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (Proverbs 24:21 My son, fear the LORD and the king; Do not associate with those given to CHANGE)
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To: G-Man 1
WHY NOT USE THE CURRENT INTERSTATE HIWAY RITE OF WAYS FOR TRANSMISION LINES? WOULD BE CHEEPER THAN HAVING TO BUYING NEW RIGHT OF WAYS.

Simple answer; politicians won't make as much money if they do.

35 posted on 08/27/2008 5:45:55 AM PDT by Roccus (People seldom do what they believe in. They do what is convenient....then repent.)
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To: J Aguilar
Such green energies as solar or wind are the opposite any grid is designed. Grids are a backbone powered by big, reliable, regulable units, which maintain power and frequency. Wide use of such energies makes this grid unstable, requiring further investment in power lines and in gas turbine “rapid reaction” plants.

Yet it works fine in Denmark and they get 20 percent of their power from the wind.

36 posted on 08/27/2008 5:46:42 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (Proverbs 24:21 My son, fear the LORD and the king; Do not associate with those given to CHANGE)
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To: Thermalseeker
"He's buying up water rights from the Ogalla aquifer"

More mis-info.

There are over 100 landowners in Mesa water who have a legal right to the water beneath their land. Pickens will pay these landowners a royalty on their water.

37 posted on 08/27/2008 5:48:37 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: neverdem

T. Scam Picken pushing his legislation to put power lines to HIS wind fans.


38 posted on 08/27/2008 5:55:53 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: gonzo

T.Boone is just a fatter Ross Perot.

(Perot opposed Nafta because he was building a border airport with a huge free trade zone along the texas mexican border. Nafta=no need for airport)


39 posted on 08/27/2008 6:00:41 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Ben Ficklin
There are over 100 landowners in Mesa water who have a legal right to the water beneath their land. Pickens will pay these landowners a royalty on their water.

And they are PALE in comparison to the people who are opposing Pickens and his land siezures. There are many who ARE NOT going along willingly with Pickens' plans. Try actually reading the Business Week article, among others, I and others have posted for you to read and educate yourself. These articles detail current and future land seizures by Pickens and his efforts to gain eminent domain powers for his PRIVATE projects. These links that have been provided slam dunk your claims that "everyone" is a willing participant to Pickens' water and wind mill plans.

You and your claims have been thoroughly debunked with cold, hard facts from major, mainstream publications, pal. You, on the other hand, have only offered your own opinions and rants with absolutely nothing to back up your claims.

BTW, how long have you worked for Pickens? Is he your uncle or what?

40 posted on 08/27/2008 6:12:27 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Silence is not always a Sign of Wisdom, but Babbling is ever a Mark of Folly. - B. Franklin)
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