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THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND PELOSI
The Oregonian ^ | August 28, 2008 | David Reinhard

Posted on 08/28/2008 11:48:27 PM PDT by neverdem

A mid the cascade of words pouring out of Denver this week, none may have more long-term punch than the bubbly Mile High musings of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Sunday's "Meet the Press." Tom Brokaw had asked about Barack Obama saying that deciding when life begins was "above my pay grade." Pelosi showcased the Peter Principle in action. It says that people rise to the level of their incompetence. Her answer showed that the principle has nothing to do with Saint Peter.

"I would say that as an ardent, practicing Catholic, this is an issue that I have studied for a long time. And what I know is, over the centuries, the doctors of the church have not been able to make that definition. . . . We don't know. . . . And so I don't think anybody can tell you when life begins, human life begins."

How bad was it? Her pontifications left Brokaw as dumbstruck as a host can appear at such times. He noted her church believes life begins at conception. "I understand," she said. "And this is, like, maybe 50 years or something like that. So again, over the history of the church, this is an issue of controversy. But it is . . . also true that God has given us . . . a free will and a responsibility to answer for our actions."

How bad was it? Catholic leaders in Washington, D.C., New York and Denver sternly corrected her valley girl pronouncement. Like, maybe 50 years or something like that . . . free will -- yeah, whatever.

It's one thing for a politico to bring up the teachings of her church on an issue. Sometimes it's a risky thing in a nation built on the separation of church and state; sometimes it's an altogether legitimate thing. But it's another thing for someone to call herself an ardent, practicing Catholic and then make a holy hash of her church's teaching on abortion.

"Ardent, practicing Catholics will quickly learn from the historical record that from apostolic times, the Christian tradition overwhelmingly held that abortion was grievously evil," Denver Archbishop Charles Chaput stated. "Some of the Early Fathers held that abortion was homicide; others that it was tantamount to homicide; and various scholars theorized about when and how the unborn child might be animated or 'ensouled.' But none diminished the unique evil of abortion as an attack on life itself . . . ."

He continued: "It is always gravely evil, and so are the evasions employed to justify it. Catholics who make excuses for it -- whether they're famous or not -- fool only themselves and abuse the fidelity of those Catholics who do sincerely seek to follow the Gospel and live their Catholic faith."

It hardly requires a prelate's instruction for Catholics to learn what the church actually teaches. It's right in the Catholic Church's catechism: "Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception . . . . Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable."

Pelosi must have been on a Rocky Mountain high Sunday. She was operating way above her pay grade.

There's a term for Roman Catholics who pick and choose what non-negotiable church teachings to follow: "Cafeteria Catholics." The modern Democratic Party presents a special temptation for Catholic politicians and voters alike, since the right to an abortion has become the party's holy grail. The result is lots of rationalizing or a willful ignorance of their church's position. But Pelosi has hurled herself into a whole new realm. She combined lame rationalization of her own position with an ignorance of the church's position that, sadly, didn't seem willful.

This teachable moment for the Catholic Church couldn't come at a worse moment for Democrats. As they reach out to working-class Catholics, Pelosi's remarks highlight the party's abortion problem. Its support for unchecked abortion -- and a presidential candidate more radical than abortion-rights groups -- doesn't make this easy. Case in point: Before Pelosi prompted Chaput's rejoinder, the Denver archbishop had said that Sen. Joe Biden should avoid taking communion because of the Catholic vice presidential pick's pro-choice stand on abortion.

Unlike Catholic teaching on capital punishment or papal statements on the Iraq war, you see, the church's ancient position on abortion isn't something Catholics are free to ignore. Even ardent, practicing Catholics. Their only choice: Practice more.

David Reinhard, associate editor, can be reached at 503-221-8152 or davidreinhard@news.oregonian.com.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholicchurch; pelosi
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1 posted on 08/28/2008 11:48:27 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

As a good Liberal, Pelosi can’t let facts get in the way of her predetermined opinion.


2 posted on 08/28/2008 11:53:37 PM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: neverdem

Nancy needs to go back home and disappear from public view.


3 posted on 08/29/2008 12:07:10 AM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing-----Edmund Burke)
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To: neverdem

We have been on the Road (meaning we got to listen to all the talk radio folks for 10+ hrs)

(we dont get radio were we live)

I loved the comment about Pope Peloser.

I believe that was a Savage episode.

Got to listen to Lars Larson/Rush (bores us to much knuckle bouncing and bore I am on diet talk).

Savage was not too manic.
Lars well you just cant fiscally conserve enough for him after all he has lived in the money in the air for lib execs and no filtertration down to those so called caring programs that all the grants are for...have to agree with Lars on that.

So being on the road and will be again next week (real tough going stuff for us but we get the perk of radio)I cant WAIT untillMcCain and the GOP walk out and no fireworks/no showing a woman with steel legs (for Gods sake that was words fail me, esp as a careprovider of a severly Medically fragile quad who has the guts and GLory to whine everyday to go out and live his life and bitch at the Docs if he needs some fixin up to do so, HELLO Operation Chaos and he did that on his own not a Rush thing).

Well Martin Luther King was a man who preached unialble (sic it is late off the road) rights...so Obama claims he is taking up his torch.. Good Luck Sucker.


4 posted on 08/29/2008 12:44:21 AM PDT by Global2010 (No Worries)
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To: Global2010
I read your post. I think you need some sleep. Drive carefully.

FMCDH(BITS)

5 posted on 08/29/2008 12:52:05 AM PDT by nothingnew (I fear for my Republic due to marxist influence in our government. Open eyes/see)
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To: neverdem

I had to laugh today when Rush was saying how the DemocRAT leadership is trying to get Nancy to shut up. She’s blowing if for them with her stupid remarks. I just don’t see her as being a very bright individual. She’s kind of a ditz.


6 posted on 08/29/2008 12:53:14 AM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (A History and Science Minute.- "Climate change" has been going on for millions of years!)
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To: neverdem

I would like to see the separation of Pelosi and state.


7 posted on 08/29/2008 12:54:48 AM PDT by paudio (Kerry had Global Test, Obama has Global Tax.)
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To: nothingnew

Came off the road 6 hrs ago not due to go back for 48+ yeah so what.

Oh did you have a /sarc tag or can you tell I am just exhausted.

No Worries...I dont go on the road unless I have 48hrs rest/relax/shower good food and de caff H20..then I hit it..but being a big vessel I must say if I was not on a journey I would love to get in a derby with one of the lil BMW or Porshe not gonna let you merge then smoke me.. must be the lil bald men driving them cars.

I dont do road roids. Do You?


8 posted on 08/29/2008 1:04:43 AM PDT by Global2010 (No Worries)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

Kinda of a Ditz?

I would like to see her stick out her tongue for the Body of Christ.

Well er..she does have time to go to Confession!

/sarc tag


9 posted on 08/29/2008 1:08:55 AM PDT by Global2010 (No Worries)
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To: neverdem

She has to stop nipping at the sacramental wine.


10 posted on 08/29/2008 1:34:25 AM PDT by screaming eagle2 (No matter what you call it,a pre-owned vehicle is still a USED CAR!)
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To: neverdem

She has to stop nipping at the sacramental wine.


11 posted on 08/29/2008 1:35:19 AM PDT by screaming eagle2 (No matter what you call it,a pre-owned vehicle is still a USED CAR!)
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To: ZULU

Rich Lawyer

A rich lawyer was going down the street in his limo when he saw a hobo kneeling in a park, eating the grass. The lawyer asked his chauffeur to stop and rolled down the window to talk to the poor fellow. The lawyer asked, “How come you are eating this grass?”

The hobo replied, “I have no money and no house, so my family and I live in this park, eat the grass, and drink out of the drinking fountain.”

The lawyer said, “Well, I’m rich. Go get your family and friends, and you can all come to my house and I’ll feed you.”

Eventually the hobo, his family, his friends, and his friends’ families all piled into the limo. As they were driving down the road, the lawyer broke the silence. “You know, you guys are really going to like it at my house. The grass is at least a foot long in the back.”


12 posted on 08/29/2008 1:53:47 AM PDT by WesG (Without geometry, life is pointless.)
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To: Global2010

Gotta love it - ‘Nancy the Valley Girl....Operating above her pay grade.....the Peter (not Saint) in action’.


13 posted on 08/29/2008 2:40:29 AM PDT by txzman (Jer 23:29)
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To: neverdem
"The Joker" Pelosi is WAY above her paygrade on any, I repeat any, issue.

I have never seen a more monumentally stupid, totally incompetent human being, yet with such complete arrogance, condensension, and entitlement.


14 posted on 08/29/2008 3:12:50 AM PDT by FormerACLUmember (When the past no longer illuminates the future, the spirit walks in darkness.)
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To: FormerACLUmember

It’s wonderful to finally see our prelates reaffirming Chrit’s Church on earth. For so long, following the recent Church scandals, the Priests and Bishops appeared to be in hiding when there is so much work to be done and their voice is more important now that ever. Speaker Pilosi, it’s time for your Bishop to step forward with strong condemnation as well.


15 posted on 08/29/2008 3:37:17 AM PDT by yorkie01
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To: neverdem
Though not a Catholic (descended from grim faced Calvinists and Wesleyans) I cannot but applaud..."ardently".... Cardinal Eagan of New York.

His response to Pelosi was nothing less than the mother of all ecclesiastical b^^ch slaps.

Good on you, your eminence!

16 posted on 08/29/2008 3:51:45 AM PDT by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: txzman

Too bad that the MSM will never follow up with some more Augustine, who felt that male babies were ‘ensouled’ at 1 month (and therefore safe from abortion) while females were ensouled at 3 months. The premise, that the question of when life begins can be put to a fifth century figure, is ludicrous. But they want the controversy to fade ASAP.


17 posted on 08/29/2008 3:59:02 AM PDT by sobieski (L)
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To: Jimmy Valentine

Nancy Pelosi is just another in a long line of dissident Catholics. However, it is not what Nancy thinks that matters. Church teaching is rooted in dogma that does not change or evolve. Her arrogance is a perfect example of the first deadly sin of pride. She is no more important than the least among us but with her station in life she will be held to account for her actions, to whom much is given much is expected.


18 posted on 08/29/2008 4:09:53 AM PDT by Machavelli (True God)
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To: Salvation; sandyeggo; NYer; Pyro7480; ArrogantBustard; BlackElk; AnAmericanMother

Ping of interest!


19 posted on 08/29/2008 4:57:36 AM PDT by Convert from ECUSA ("When I was a boy, America was a better place" - Dennis Prager)
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To: neverdem

Ardent Catholic my @$$ .


20 posted on 08/29/2008 6:04:38 AM PDT by lionheart 247365 (Liberalism ,, the greatest threat to AMERICA ,,, .)
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