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Stalin's mass murders were 'entirely rational' says new Russian textbook praising tyrant
Daily Mail ^ | 09/03/08 | Will Stewart

Posted on 09/02/2008 10:22:27 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster

Stalin's mass murders were 'entirely rational' says new Russian textbook praising tyrant

By Will Stewart

Last updated at 1:10 AM on 03rd September 2008

Comments (0) Add to My Stories

Ruthless: 20 million died as a result of Stalin's actions

Stalin acted ‘entirely rationally’ in executing and imprisoning millions of people in the Gulags, a controversial new Russian teaching manual claims.

Fifty-five years after the Soviet dictator died, the latest guide for teachers to promote patriotism among the Russian young said he did what he did to ensure the country’s modernisation.

The manual, titled A History of Russia, 1900-1945, will form the basis of a new state-approved text book for use in schools next year.

It seems to follow an attempt backed by Prime Minister Vladimir Putin to re-evaluate Stalin’s record in a more positive light.

Critics have taken exception, however, to numerous excerpts, which they say are essentially attempts to whitewash Stalin’s crimes.

In the West, it has been widely accepted that in the 1920s millions were shot, exiled to Siberia, or died of starvation after their land, homes and meagre possessions, were taken to fulfil Stalin’s vision of massive ‘factory farms.’

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: education; history; indoctrination; massmurder; stalin; whitewash
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1 posted on 09/02/2008 10:22:27 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
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To: MarMema; AdmSmith

Ping!


2 posted on 09/02/2008 10:23:07 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster (kim jong-il, chia head, ppogri, In Grim Reaper we trust)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Anyone who attempts to "rationalize" mass-murder is prima facie, irrational...

the infowarrior

3 posted on 09/02/2008 10:25:44 PM PDT by infowarrior
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To: TigerLikesRooster

The Poles will be happy to hear this. So will the Ukrainians.


4 posted on 09/02/2008 10:25:47 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Joe Biden's first wife Neilia Hunter killed herself and their daughter.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Ho-ly cow!

Praising a ghoul like Stalin; sick.


5 posted on 09/02/2008 10:25:49 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Oh, my. We must not provoke the Russian bear. /paleo wimp


6 posted on 09/02/2008 10:26:41 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: TigerLikesRooster

I advise Russian students to use this textbook for bathroom purposes.


7 posted on 09/02/2008 10:27:17 PM PDT by popdonnelly (I'll tell you a little secret: we're smarter and more competent than the Left.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

You have to feel sorry for the Russians. They are always exploited by a ruling class and fed a lot of BS by said ruling class.


8 posted on 09/02/2008 10:28:49 PM PDT by popdonnelly (I'll tell you a little secret: we're smarter and more competent than the Left.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Khrushchev brought De-Stalinisation

Medvedev/Putin bring Re-Stalinisation.

9 posted on 09/02/2008 10:35:15 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

The author of that manual should go read David Hume or F.A. Hayek to understand why being “rational” might not be a good thing.


10 posted on 09/02/2008 10:36:05 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: infowarrior
Anyone who attempts to "rationalize" mass-murder is prima facie, irrational...

Why cannot someone be rational and evil? Behavior is rational if it is the most effective way to meet one's objectives. If the most effective way to meet one's objectives is to kill 50 million people, then the killing may be entirely rational.

To be sure, most people who are not evil would have the avoidance of bloodshed as one of their objectives. For such people, killing 50 million people would be sufficiently contrary to their objectives as to be irrational. For evil people who don't mind bloodshed, however, mass killing is entirely rational if it helps to achieve other objectives. Call such people evil all you like, but that doesn't make them irrational.

11 posted on 09/02/2008 10:36:39 PM PDT by supercat
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To: supercat
Behavior is rational if it is the most effective way to meet one's objectives.

*This* is why utopias never work. They all begin on this faulty premise, then proceed to use the blood and bones of those who disagree as the foundation of the utopia. Which, in turn devolves the utopia into a dystopia...

the infowarrior

12 posted on 09/02/2008 10:40:15 PM PDT by infowarrior (“Let the voters decide if Palin is laughable.”-Tublecane)
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To: supercat

The problem is, if you’ve read Conquest’s The Great Terror, there were millions of killings and imprisonments that were entirely IRRATIONAL. Now, of course, this atomizes civil society, thus ushering in the permanent state of terror (but reducing the use of resources as more surrender to the tyranny) but there were specific cases that did not help Stalin’s overall goals.

More importantly, Stalin easily could have achieved many of those goals, obtained absolute power and still done things in a less bloodthirsty fashion.

One thing that jumps WAY out is that he ACTUALLY took Hitler at his word AND purged the Red Army, depriving it of its best leadership-—FOR NO PURPOSE WHATSOEVER, other than extending terror. It cost lives and progress in WW II and damaged the military of the State he led. These are not rational, even if the extension of a terror-state across that landmass was an objective of his (along with consolidation of his power.)


13 posted on 09/02/2008 10:46:45 PM PDT by Skywalk (Transdimensional Jihad!)
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To: infowarrior

Stalin was Insane, and a Paranoid Lunatic.
He Murdered Millions.

and He is Idolized By The American Commie Leftists in Hollywood, and the Media, and the College Elitists.

They are the “usefull idiots” of Stalin and His Satanic offspring.

Robert Scheere,Ayers and Dorn,Code Pinkos...they are all the same.


14 posted on 09/02/2008 10:48:09 PM PDT by LtKerst (Lt Kerst)
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To: supercat

Pace Chesterton: the madman is not one who has lost reason, it is one who has lost everything but reason.

You’re exactly right. And likewise Hitler’s attempt to exterminate millions is entirely rational as well - if you accept his underlying assumptions and values.


15 posted on 09/02/2008 10:48:13 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
he did what he did to ensure the country’s modernisation.

Well, he certainly did a bang-up job, then.
16 posted on 09/02/2008 10:49:09 PM PDT by Question Liberal Authority (Bristol Palin's pre-born baby has the same amount of executive experience as Obama & Biden COMBINED)
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To: Army Air Corps

Sadly, right after Khruschev (who was himself a Stalinist creature, whose rise was owed to his participation in the Terror) made those small steps, they began to reverse themselves.

This has been coming a long time. The problem is, Stalin killed of even his own allies, simply because they were a threat to a state subsumed totally to his whim and his particular vision for Marxist-Leninist ideology.


17 posted on 09/02/2008 10:51:16 PM PDT by Skywalk (Transdimensional Jihad!)
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To: LtKerst
Stalin was Insane, and a Paranoid Lunatic. He Murdered Millions.

No doubt. Putin & Company are likewise insane, as they try to "rationalize" those murders as necessary. My point stands. Anyone who tries to rationalize mass-murder is prima facie, irrational...

the infowarrior

18 posted on 09/02/2008 10:51:50 PM PDT by infowarrior (“Let the voters decide if Palin is laughable.”-Tublecane)
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To: Question Liberal Authority

As pointed out (again, I must give credit to Conquest’s books on the matter) Stalin actually IMPEDED the work on progress towards modernization.

The ‘rightists’ of the Communist Party wanted them to take an incremental and gradual approach to collectivization. Stalin would have none of it and it led to the deliberate starvation of millions (and the more violent murders of same) of Ukrainians and other ‘kulaks.’ Stalin’s brutal industrialization was similarly counterproductive compared to the groundwork that Lenin had laid.

The ridiculous quotas that were set ended up promoting the black-market, statistic-distorting, inefficient and destructive (environmentally too) institutional practices that would soon become synonymous with the “great hope for humanity” that was the Soviet Union.


19 posted on 09/02/2008 10:56:04 PM PDT by Skywalk (Transdimensional Jihad!)
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To: supercat

The mass murder that went on throughout the time of Stalin was basically an extension and expansion of the Red Terror that began with Lenin. The grip Lenin and the communists had on Russia was tenuous in the early years and the assassination attempt on Lenin obviously shook him up and he decided to crush any opposition through the means of mass murder. Wiki link to the period known as the Red Terror http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror


20 posted on 09/02/2008 11:00:36 PM PDT by xp38
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To: TigerLikesRooster

I wonder if Putin is laying the ground work for him claim himself officially dictator.


21 posted on 09/02/2008 11:02:53 PM PDT by neb52
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To: TigerLikesRooster

I suppose Putin is the author.


22 posted on 09/02/2008 11:08:21 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Skywalk; infowarrior; xp38; D-fendr
The problem is, if you’ve read Conquest’s The Great Terror, there were millions of killings and imprisonments that were entirely IRRATIONAL.

The statement to which I responded was, "Anyone who attempts to "rationalize" mass-murder is prima facie, irrational...". The statement was a generalization that I would suggest is overly broad. I don't dispute that the mass murders committed by Stalin in particular (and indeed, by most mass murderers) are irrational. Nonetheless, that does not imply that mass murder cannot be simultaneously rational and evil.

23 posted on 09/02/2008 11:10:21 PM PDT by supercat
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To: infowarrior
Anyone who attempts to "rationalize" mass-murder is prima facie, irrational...

Not true. There are plenty of rational evil people. They only need to take one simple sentence to heart to unlock evil.

"The ends justify the means"

24 posted on 09/02/2008 11:29:34 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Strategery & Shardenfreude = Stratenshardenfreudery)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
another russian textbook author

We need McCain.

25 posted on 09/02/2008 11:43:30 PM PDT by MarMema ("..this isn't about the U.S. and Russia, It's about everyone and Russia.")
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To: TigerLikesRooster

26 posted on 09/02/2008 11:47:53 PM PDT by MarMema ("..this isn't about the U.S. and Russia, It's about everyone and Russia.")
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To: TigerLikesRooster

IN Georgia they like to boast that Stalin was a Georgian and that he murdered millions of Russians.


27 posted on 09/02/2008 11:53:57 PM PDT by Bushwacker777
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To: Bushwacker777
And you know this how?

I am in touch daily with quite a few Georgians and have spent time there. This is the first I have heard of your claim.

28 posted on 09/02/2008 11:55:27 PM PDT by MarMema ("..this isn't about the U.S. and Russia, It's about everyone and Russia.")
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To: Bushwacker777; 1rudeboy

Oh wait, I checked your posts. You’re just another sleeper who trolls for Vlad here.


29 posted on 09/02/2008 11:58:15 PM PDT by MarMema ("..this isn't about the U.S. and Russia, It's about everyone and Russia.")
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To: Bushwacker777

30 posted on 09/02/2008 11:59:46 PM PDT by MarMema ("..this isn't about the U.S. and Russia, It's about everyone and Russia.")
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To: MarMema
I read FT commentary by Martin Wolf who argued that we need a new U.S. President who can go along with Putin's Russia and current communist regime in China.

He is not a typical left-leaning Euro. However, his comments sounds really naive in light of what has been transpiring in Russia lately.

We do not have to have shooting war with Russia. On the other hand, certain amount of stand-off(cold-war-like) is necessary.

31 posted on 09/03/2008 12:26:25 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster (kim jong-il, chia head, ppogri, In Grim Reaper we trust)
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To: TigerLikesRooster; Lasha

Or maybe a certain amount of arming small nations with the best stuff available.


32 posted on 09/03/2008 12:35:42 AM PDT by MarMema ("..this isn't about the U.S. and Russia, It's about everyone and Russia.")
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To: Centurion2000
"The ends justify the means"

That statement is, in itself, irrational. You can *never* achieve a worthy end by unworthy means, and anyone who believes that they can, is, not to put too fine a point on it, irrational...

the infowarrior

33 posted on 09/03/2008 12:44:00 AM PDT by infowarrior (“Let the voters decide if Palin is laughable.”-Tublecane)
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To: MarMema
And why is everyone surprised? Stalin was voted by most Russians as the person best representing them or like most popular politician or something to that effect.

Interestingly enough, last year 65% Russians said they would prefer to see someone like Saakashvili as their president... go wonder

34 posted on 09/03/2008 1:03:59 AM PDT by Lasha
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To: TigerLikesRooster
So, Russia is re-embracing the soulless heathen path!?!

I expect that means that millions more Russians will be dying for the state.

35 posted on 09/03/2008 1:13:25 AM PDT by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

As it’s been explained to me before and is quite obvious, the Russian people have a certain desire to be ruled. If that ruler is a murdering dictator, so be it. It’s their dictator and they secretly like it. They don’t know how to run their own life. It’s fascinating that millions of people of a like culture want to be under a dictator’s thumb.


36 posted on 09/03/2008 3:25:38 AM PDT by caver (Yes, I did crawl out of a hole in the ground.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Two words from one of Russia’s greatest national heroes: Gulag Archipelago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago

http://www.times.com/books/98/03/01/home/solz-gulag.html

http://www.acton.org/publications/randl/rl_172review.php


37 posted on 09/03/2008 3:28:42 AM PDT by XR7
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To: TigerLikesRooster
I don't think that the Ukrainians are going to buiymany copies of this textbook.

There are still people there who remember the Stalin/Russian induced famine that killed close to 10 million Ukrainians.

38 posted on 09/03/2008 3:35:11 AM PDT by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

The left will excuse any atrocity as long as another leftist commits it.


39 posted on 09/03/2008 4:33:32 AM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Let's get someone to ask William Ayers (as an education expert) what he thinks of this.

Then link him to Obama, and ask Obama of Ayers' opinion...

Cheers!

40 posted on 09/03/2008 5:08:25 AM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

This makes sense folks. I know it is difficult to even imagine, but to communists (socialists or liberals), humans are just a tool to be used to achieve their goals. They do not put humans on any higher plane then trees or rodents. That is why they demand euthenasia, abortion, and praise mass murderers.

Simple as that!

JoMa


41 posted on 09/03/2008 5:58:50 AM PDT by joma89
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To: TigersEye

I can’t help but look at Russia as a dying nation. They may be making lots of money, but not lots of babies. The population, as far as I know, is still shrinking. Women know. They know how horrible an environment their little babushka would have to grow up in and it’s not worth it to a significant number of Russian women.

More spies, spying on fewer people...to what end?


42 posted on 09/03/2008 6:06:11 AM PDT by bioqubit
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Death is not a MEANS to utopian socialism; mass murder is the FRUIT of utopian socialism.

To use a modern metaphor, the mass killing is not a bug, but a feature.

See tagline.


43 posted on 09/03/2008 6:07:17 AM PDT by headsonpikes (Genocide is the highest sacrament of socialism.)
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To: infowarrior
Anyone who attempts to "rationalize" mass-murder is prima facie, irrational...

No. He only has to toss God in the river. It's a set of simple logical steps from there.

44 posted on 09/03/2008 6:23:54 AM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: TigerLikesRooster

It makes me sick.

Its hard not to notice glee on the Russian websites/forums re kicking Georgian (and by association - American) ass. While not that many are longing for return of Communist rule (no more than 25%, judging by various elections in the last decade; and don’t even start the conspiracy theory that collapse of the USSR was a gimmick), most are nostalgic for Russian prestige and power in the world stage, and the lost Empire. During Olympics: so many calculations of combined total of medals if the Soviet Union was still intact. Then they would beat Chinese and American butt for sure.

They don’t see a paradox of simultaneously looking down at people from Caucus or Middle Asian -stans, and wanting the Empire back, including all these people as subjects. Another inconvenient truth all those praising Stalin conveniently forget, that during the terror years nobody was safe - no matter how small potato you were, or how far you lived.

The best Russian writers (the sole of the nation for the last two hundred years) had the slave mentality of populace as one of their main targets. Its still there.


45 posted on 09/03/2008 7:20:02 AM PDT by Tolik (2008: Maverick/Barracuda vs. Messiah/Mouth)
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To: Tolik

sole=soul

duh


46 posted on 09/03/2008 7:22:38 AM PDT by Tolik (2008: Maverick/Barracuda vs. Messiah/Mouth)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Wonder what Pooty-Put paid this guy to publish this drivel?!!


47 posted on 09/03/2008 7:25:24 AM PDT by mo
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To: popdonnelly
“You have to feel sorry for the Russians. They are always exploited by a ruling class and fed a lot of BS by said ruling class.”

Nonsense. If they are exploited by their rulers it is because the majority of them consistently CHOOSE to be exploited. They have proved that they are capable of overthrowing their rulers so if they are content under any given exploitative despot, and they certainly seem happy with Putin, one can hardly feel sorry for them.

Instead save your sympathy for the millions of non Russians who have fallen victim to the Russian predilection for cruel and despotic leaders.

“People get the government they deserve.”—le Comte de Maistre

48 posted on 09/03/2008 7:46:19 AM PDT by monday
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To: supercat
“For evil people who don't mind bloodshed, however, mass killing is entirely rational if it helps to achieve other objectives.”

True, but only if your objectives are to break down society and create a hell on earth. The rationalization that the Russians are trying to foster is that it was necessary to kill millions in order to modernize society. This notion is not only irrational, it is ridiculous. That is why the people trying to rationalize Stalins crimes are irrational.

49 posted on 09/03/2008 7:54:30 AM PDT by monday
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To: Centurion2000; infowarrior
Anyone who attempts to “rationalize” mass-murder is prima facie, irrational...

Not true. There are plenty of rational evil people. They only need to take one simple sentence to heart to unlock evil.

“The ends justify the means”

Infowarrior has it right because that one simple sentence is not rational. Anyone who believes it is, is obviously irrational. The ends cannot be divorced from the means. One cannot create utopia by means of terror. It is impossible and therefore irrational to believe that it is possible.

Your supposedly rational evil people demonstrate their irrationality and their evil by believing that “the ends justify the means”.

50 posted on 09/03/2008 8:16:28 AM PDT by monday
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