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Palin fires back in Troopergate, releases memos showing insubordination
HotAir ^ | 9/16/08 | Ed Morrisey

Posted on 09/16/2008 6:23:26 AM PDT by pissant

Sarah Palin issued a response to the Troopergate investigation yesterday by releasing internal memoranda that show Walt Monegan got fired for insubordination on budget matters and not because of his refusal to fire Palin’s former brother-in-law. Monegan went behind Palin’s back to attempt to revive a project Palin had vetoed, which “stunned” the Office of Management and Budget Director. On another occasion, Monegan held a press conference with Hollis French to dissent from Palin’s budget priorities — the same Hollis French pushing the ethics complaint against Palin:

Walt Monegan lost his job as public safety director because he resisted Gov. Sarah Palin’s budget policies and showed “outright insubordination,” say papers the governor’s lawyer filed Monday with the state Personnel Board.

It was Palin’s strongest effort yet to snuff allegations she sacked Monegan because he refused to fire a state trooper involved in an ugly divorce with the governor’s sister.

Along with the papers filed Monday were a slew of e-mails from the governor’s office purporting to show Monegan’s “rogue mentality” as a member of Palin’s Cabinet.

In one message, the governor’s budget director, Karen Rehfeld, wrote that she was “stunned and amazed” that Monegan appeared to be working with a powerful state legislator, Anchorage Republican Rep. Kevin Meyer, to seek funding for a project Palin previously had vetoed.

According to the papers filed by Palin’s legal team, that was not the only instance of insubordination from Monegan:

* 12/9/07: Monegan holds a press conference with Hollis French to push his own budget plan.

* 1/29/08: Palin’s staffers have to rework their procedures to keep Monegan from bypassing normal channels for budget requests.

* February 2008: Monegan publicly releases a letter he wrote to Palin supporting a project she vetoed.

* June 26, 2008: Monegan bypassed the governor’s office entirely and contacted Alaska’s Congressional delegation to gain funding for a project.

From this presentation, it looks like Monegan had decided from the start to be a loose cannon in the Palin administration. The wonder of this isn’t that he got fired — it’s how he managed to hang onto his job as long as he did. The response calls Monegan’s trip to Washington the “final straw”, and it’s not difficult to see why. Monegan even admitted it in his valedictory e-mail to his colleagues, saying that he “had waited too long outside her door for her to believe that I supported her.” Nor did Monegan file an ethics complaint, as the law would have required him to do, if he felt his termination violated state ethics laws. (Palin filed the complaint herself to argue the case.)

As the filing states, Monegan served as a political appointee, at the pleasure of the Governor. Obviously, Monegan didn’t act to support Palin’s budget initiatives, often acting in opposition to them. In anyone’s administration, that will result in dismissal. Monegan kicked himself out of the job through his own acts.


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2008; elections; mccainpalin; palin; palinrecord; sarahpalin; troopergate
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Looks like a solid kick in the balls.
1 posted on 09/16/2008 6:24:04 AM PDT by pissant
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To: pissant

Monegan was a wife beater who refused to fire a wife beater.
END OF STORY.


2 posted on 09/16/2008 6:26:06 AM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: pissant

Game,
Set,
MATCH!


3 posted on 09/16/2008 6:26:35 AM PDT by TitansAFC (In 2008, please vote GOP and show us that you love your country more than you hate John McCain)
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To: pissant

Monegan and French’s balls are too tightly retracted to kick. A technique learned from the Obama campaign staff.


4 posted on 09/16/2008 6:26:52 AM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: TitansAFC

Unfortunately not. The mainstream media will completely ignore this. They are on a mission to get 0bama into the White House, and they will do so any almost any cost.


5 posted on 09/16/2008 6:27:24 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo (You can put lipstick on a donkey, but it's still just a jackass.)
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To: pissant

Just a small correction. Palin did not fire Monahan.

She told him to resign from the cabinet, and offered him a different job in the administration. He turned it down and quit.


6 posted on 09/16/2008 6:27:44 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: pissant

lol

I’d say.


7 posted on 09/16/2008 6:28:21 AM PDT by snarkytart
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To: pissant
Looks like a solid kick in the balls!

Well, that's purdy graphic! LOL!

8 posted on 09/16/2008 6:28:53 AM PDT by Bushbacker1 (Kill 'em til they're dead, then kill 'em again!)
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To: pissant

Another non-scandal scandal, but the media will not report the facts. They will keep vaguely referencing this scandal to make it appear there is something ugly here. Then the politically-motivated report will be released just prior to the election making dubious claims and Palin will have no time to respond prior to the election.


9 posted on 09/16/2008 6:29:15 AM PDT by Always Right (Obama: more arrogant than Bill Clinton, more naive than Jimmy Carter, and more liberal than LBJ.)
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To: pissant

He must be a liberal who knows better than the “ignorant moronic American people” like the guy next to me always says, he thinks we are being fooled and are really dumb, if he only knew - LOL


10 posted on 09/16/2008 6:30:02 AM PDT by Scythian
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To: AmericaUnited
Allow me to adjust your comment just a bit:

Monegan was a wife beater who refused to fire a wife beater and child taserer!

11 posted on 09/16/2008 6:30:31 AM PDT by Bushbacker1 (Kill 'em til they're dead, then kill 'em again!)
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To: pissant

Poor moustacheod good old boy didn’t like being told to tow the line.

Her reformer credentials just went up 1000%.


12 posted on 09/16/2008 6:32:35 AM PDT by Puddleglum
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To: pissant

Well, okay, but, uh, uh ... well, um ... She bought a tanning bed! and, and, she gives her kids funny names!!


13 posted on 09/16/2008 6:34:10 AM PDT by AHerald ("Be faithful to God ... do not bother about the ridicule of the foolish." - St. Pio of Pietrelcina)
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To: TitansAFC

Game, Set, MATCH! is correct. Notice it didn’t take long to release the emails after the lowlife went after Gov Palin for the Dems yesterday. He couldn’t wait to get out there and trash Gov Palin. If I was him, I would change my location as Alaskans are not going to be forgetting anytime soon.


14 posted on 09/16/2008 6:35:16 AM PDT by PhiKapMom ( BOOMER SOONER -- VOTE FOR McCAIN/PALIN2008! LetsGetThisRight.com)
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To: CharlesWayneCT; All
"12/9/07: Monegan holds a press conference with Hollis French to push his own budget plan."

???? HOLLIS FRENCH? He is the Democrat hack who is (nowadays) an avowed Obama supporter, who is quoted prominently in some of the Obama campaign's Alaska press releases on energy policy, and who is overseeing the current so-called "investigation"......

So Monegan as a key member of Governor Palin's cabinet held a news conference with a prominent member of the OTHER party to advocate a different budget plan than the budget of his own boss the Governor? That's grounds for firing right there - clearly he was not part of the Governor's team he was a mole and a renegade for the opposition. No executive leader anywhere should have to put up with such behavior.

15 posted on 09/16/2008 6:36:04 AM PDT by Enchante (OBAMAGATE: Iraqi Foreign Minister Says Obama Tried to Derail Agreement on Troop Withdrawals!!!)
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To: Bushbacker1

And the press could not find this because of “Why”?


16 posted on 09/16/2008 6:38:03 AM PDT by NoDRodee (U>S>M>C)
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To: Thane_Banquo
The mainstream media will completely ignore this.

Or they will spin it to say that Gov. Palin "can't tolerate dissenting opinions" and "is insulated against any criticism" or, worst of all, "isn't bipartisan" (which of course means not doing what democrats want to do).

17 posted on 09/16/2008 6:38:56 AM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (Happiness is a choice!)
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To: Thane_Banquo
You're probably partially right. The MSM will not champion this news. They will however, have to stop bringing it up every morning. The strangle hold they used to have on news is gone and they can no longer set and maintain a permanent agenda. Their time slot is now limited. They can sit on the truth for awhile but eventually, due to the uncontrollable nature of Internet news, they have to stop pushing their trash or face looking like even bigger fools.
18 posted on 09/16/2008 6:39:14 AM PDT by skimbell
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To: pissant
Looks like a solid kick in the balls.


19 posted on 09/16/2008 6:43:22 AM PDT by Boston Blackie
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To: pissant

Need to keep this bumped...


20 posted on 09/16/2008 6:43:32 AM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: pissant

The msm will not give up it’s fiction. They’re determined to channel Dan Rather to the bitter end.


21 posted on 09/16/2008 6:47:30 AM PDT by Carley (she's all out of caribou.............)
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To: pissant
Looks like a solid kick in the balls.

And a punch in the face to boot.

22 posted on 09/16/2008 6:49:59 AM PDT by NeoCaveman (Annoy the media, end the Obamanation, vote maverick, McCain/Palin '08; Free Laz; Drill baby drill)
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To: skimbell

THis is the sort of thing WE should copy and paste into emails . . . to all of the newspapers in battleground states, big and small.


23 posted on 09/16/2008 6:50:07 AM PDT by MrChips (MrChips)
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To: Carley

Let’s do like Iraq, the American people own the oil and we all get a cut, I’m just saying ..... /sarc


24 posted on 09/16/2008 6:51:01 AM PDT by Scythian
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To: Scythian

dang, wrong thread


25 posted on 09/16/2008 6:51:25 AM PDT by Scythian
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To: AmericaUnited

That’s non-helpful slander of Monegan. Best if you either backed it up, or marked it as an unfounded opinion.


26 posted on 09/16/2008 6:52:45 AM PDT by bvw
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To: pissant

Looks to me like Governor Palin took firm control of the reigns as Governor, WITHOUT being meanspirited and vindictive.

A mayor, a governor, a president, ALL have the right to pick who will work for them and further their agenda.

Governor Palin gave Monegan EVERY chance to come around and support what she wanted to do. He refused and fought her. She had the right to fire him outright. Instead, she offered him a job doing something else, rather than the embarrasment of just firing him after a long stint with the Department of Public Safety.

Sarah Palin already knows the lessons that George Bush didn’t learn - Install people loyal to your agenda, get rid of those who aren’t.

My prediction is that with these revelations, the MSM will not talk about this anymore, UNLESS, they can convince someone to come up with a monstrous lie and blatantly try to take Palin down on this issue. I don’t think there is enough “there” there to make this work for them.


27 posted on 09/16/2008 6:53:42 AM PDT by Bryan24 (When in doubt, move to the right..........)
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To: pissant

Why am I not surprised at CNN’s interpretation of today’s “Troopergate” developments?: “Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin will not cooperate with a legislative investigation into the firing of her public safety commissioner, the McCain-Palin presidential campaign announced Monday, accusing supporters of rival Barack Obama of manipulating the inquiry for political motivations. Obama’s campaign described the charge as ‘complete paranoia.’”


28 posted on 09/16/2008 7:01:30 AM PDT by Genoa
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To: pissant

The Media is afraid of a Strong Woman.


29 posted on 09/16/2008 7:05:00 AM PDT by freedomlover (Make sure you're in love - before you move in the heavy stuff)
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To: pissant

interesting oil is below 98 (every penny cut is a billion dollar tax cut) but nooooooooooooooooooo CNN has to cover this non scandal


30 posted on 09/16/2008 7:06:07 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Bryan24

“Install people loyal to your agenda, get rid of those who aren’t.”

I agree with that! However, the media is already spinning that as her “hiring her friends”. Of course, they’re completely ignoring the fact that Alaska is all about “small town politics” and that when you have people who are loyal to you and are supportive of you, they’re going to naturally BE YOUR FRIENDS. Like Democrats are known for hiring their political enemies??????


31 posted on 09/16/2008 7:06:31 AM PDT by Jackson57
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To: Genoa

. . . But nothing on CNN’s front page about Obama’s misadventures in Iraq, even though both campaigns have issued strong statements.


32 posted on 09/16/2008 7:07:13 AM PDT by Genoa
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To: PhiKapMom

Team McCain-Palin is crazy like a fox. I like how they sat on the e-mails waiting for just the right time to release them. Monegan speaking to the drive-bys last night was exactly the right time.


33 posted on 09/16/2008 7:07:51 AM PDT by Josh Painter ("I don't believe that people should be able to own guns." - Barack Obama)
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Alaska is a small state population wise but I think they could have done a better job of picking who was investigating Palin.

Has anyone investigated the relationship between Branchflowers wife and Walt Monegan a little deeper?

The questions I have is what role did Monegan play in the investigation of Linda Branchflowers questionable shooting of a man while working for the Anchorage Police Department (APD)?

Why did the Alaska State Troopers hire a retired Anchorage Police Detective (Branchflower) for a cold case detective when outside hires by the Alaska State Troopers are almost none existent? Two that were hired were APD detective under Monegan.

These are questions I would like answered before I could be sure of Stephen Branchflower’s impartiality

34 posted on 09/16/2008 7:08:14 AM PDT by ExPatAK (palin, monegan, branchflower, troopergate)
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To: Bryan24
Sarah Palin already knows the lessons that George Bush didn’t learn - Install people loyal to your agenda, get rid of those who aren’t.

I hope you're right. This has been one minor point of concern I've had. She touted her appointments of dems and independents to her staff to emphasize her ability to transcend party and be a maverick. And this is what happens.
35 posted on 09/16/2008 7:09:42 AM PDT by mmichaels1970 (Stand up for CHUCK!)
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To: pissant
"On another occasion, Monegan held a press conference with Hollis French to dissent from Palin’s budget priorities — the same Hollis French pushing the ethics complaint against Palin: "

Wow.

36 posted on 09/16/2008 7:10:23 AM PDT by cookcounty ("A ship in harbor is safe, but that's not why the ship is built." ---Governor Sarah Palin)
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To: Josh Painter

I agree 100%! I thought that was hilarious how Monegan came out speaking to the media and next thing out was the emails!

Crazy like a fox is right! :)


37 posted on 09/16/2008 7:12:14 AM PDT by PhiKapMom ( BOOMER SOONER -- VOTE FOR McCAIN/PALIN2008! LetsGetThisRight.com)
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To: AmericaUnited
"Monegan was a wife beater who refused to fire a wife beater."

So NBC is now fighting for the future of domestic violence. It doesn't any more bizarre than this.

38 posted on 09/16/2008 7:13:45 AM PDT by cookcounty ("A ship in harbor is safe, but that's not why the ship is built." ---Governor Sarah Palin)
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To: Enchante

I’m told he hates being called “Gunny” French.


39 posted on 09/16/2008 7:15:53 AM PDT by Protect the Bill of Rights (Stand up, Chuck)
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To: pissant
Walt Monegan lost his job as public safety director because he resisted Gov. Sarah Palin’s budget policies and showed “outright insubordination,” say papers the governor’s lawyer filed Monday with the state Personnel Board.

This gets better and better! How radical would it be to have an admn. in DC that fires people for not doing their jobs and attempting to undercut their elected boss.

I hope the Rats keep pushing this garbage. Somehow I don't think firing a guy who defends an employee that tasered a 10 yoa step son and threatened to kill people is going to get a lot of sympathy.

40 posted on 09/16/2008 7:17:14 AM PDT by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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bump!


41 posted on 09/16/2008 7:17:26 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: pissant

BTTT


42 posted on 09/16/2008 7:18:11 AM PDT by visualops (portraits.artlife.us or visit my freeper page)
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To: PhiKapMom

He went on Rachel Madow’s show last night on PMSNBC and dissed Palin. He also lied about Palin firing him. She didn’t. He resigned when she offered him another job.

Here’s the video: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26728409#26728409


43 posted on 09/16/2008 7:32:50 AM PDT by Josh Painter ("I don't believe that people should be able to own guns." - Barack Obama)
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To: Josh Painter

Thanks for the link! Media is going to end up with egg on their face again.


44 posted on 09/16/2008 7:35:54 AM PDT by PhiKapMom ( BOOMER SOONER -- VOTE FOR McCAIN/PALIN2008! LetsGetThisRight.com)
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To: pissant

He’s an idiot. When trying to keep clean and honest and do good work it is easy to defend one’s position as she just did. He and that weasel Kevin Meyer are toast.


45 posted on 09/16/2008 7:36:54 AM PDT by CodeToad
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To: bvw
That’s non-helpful slander of Monegan. Best if you either backed it up, or marked it as an unfounded opinion.

So you "authoritatively" state that it is slander, without providing any evidense, and then you have the gall to lecture me on needing to back up my statement with evidence...

46 posted on 09/16/2008 7:37:28 AM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: pissant; All
Here's a little more detail and summary (h/t Sister Toldjah):

Today, evidence was revealed that clearly demonstrates Governor Palin’s decision to replace the Department of Public Safety (DPS) Commissioner Walter Monegan was based entirely on his repeated refusal to execute her administration’s policy on fiscal and budget matters.

After months of swirling rumors and partisan politics, this evidence confirms what the Palin Administration has stated from Day One: the decision to replace Walt Monegan had nothing to do with concerns about the continued employment of state trooper Mike Wooten.

Government emails made public today show a pattern, from late 2007 through the middle of 2008, of Mr. Monegan’s refusal to comply with Administration policy. Despite repeated calls for budget discipline in the major state agencies, Mr. Monegan continued to press his own agenda without regard for either the formal budgeting process or the Governor’s clear policy priorities. Government staffers responsible for budget issues, and who had nothing to do with Mike Wooten, prevailed upon the governor to have Monegan replaced with someone who would not undermine the Palin administration’s budget goals.

As detailed below, insubordination and disputes over budget priorities – not Michael Wooten’s continued employment – led to Walt Monegan’s dismissal.

Mr. Monegan’s refusal to pursue Governor Palin’s policy objectives in the Department of Public Safety surfaced as early as October 2007, when DPS was involved in formulating a 10-year strategic plan. That planning process was intended to be closely integrated with other statewide planning and budgeting processes coordinated by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB). From the beginning, however, Mr. Monegan made clear that “[r]ather than plan to a budget, we want to budget to a plan.”

Mr. Monegan seemed to acknowledge that his approach was at odds with the Governor’s budget priorities and protocol, but he continued to move forward with his efforts. In response, OMB Director Karen Rehfeld made very clear that the Governor “does not want to increase the budget/position count — this is going to be a real balancing act.” Governor Palin viewed filling the existing vacancies in the Alaska State Troopers a higher priority than increasing the position count to create more vacancies. But Mr. Monegan refused to follow through.

And, with that, the stage was set for an internal disagreement over budget priorities that would escalate throughout the next eight months.

By early January 2008, Mr. Monegan’s vision for expanding the DPS and its operating budget came into more direct conflict with that of the Administration.

Increasingly dissatisfied with the Administration’s budget priorities and the formal interdepartmental budgeting process, Mr. Monegan struck out on his own. On January 29, 2008, Randy Ruaro, then-special assistant to the Governor, reported to Ms. Rehfeld that Mr. Monegan was circumventing the normal interdepartmental channels for making budget requests. Ms. Rehfeld instructed Mr. Monegan to submit formal estimates to OMB.

Sensing that his actions were at odds with Administration objectives, Mr. Monegan asked Ms. Rehfeld if he or DPS was causing “concern” to members of the Governor’s office.

Rehfeld responded, “yes,” and pointedly asked: “What can we reasonably do to tackle some of these very difficult issues and still maintain the budget discipline the governor is committed to?”

Mr. Monegan instead struck out on his own. Despite the Administration’s repeated calls for budget discipline in the major state agencies, Mr. Monegan continued to press his own expansive agenda without regard for either the formal budgeting process or the Governor’s clear policy priorities. In February 2008, for example, Mr. Monegan publicly released a letter to the Governor supporting a $1.8 million increase in the state budget for the Anchorage Community Land Trust, a line item the Governor previously had vetoed – an act of public rebuke that is almost unbelievable coming from a political appointee.

Ms. Rehfeld subsequently admonished Monegan for sending the letter, explaining that this type of public statement by a sitting cabinet member would likely frustrate the Administration’s efforts to achieve its budget objectives with the Legislature. As Ms. Rehfeld explained: “I expect we will see your letter appear as justification for funding to be included in the capital budget as the legislature makes changes to our budget, which is a bit awkward. Bottom line is, let’s talk about this rather than writing letters to the governor.”

Nevertheless problems continued; in March 2008, Mr. Ruaro complained to Ms. Rehfeld that the Department of Public Safety refused to work out disputes internally before going public: “I have spoken to Walt, [DPS Deputy Commissioner] John Glass, and Audie [Holloway] about working through issues internally first several times. Mike Nizich has spoken with them, and COS [Tibbles] has spoken directly with . . . Commissioner [Monegan]. … They seem to just not want to accept that concept.” In other emails, Mr. Ruaro complains that Monegan acting unilaterally had been “the problem for the last 6 months” and that “I have told them 4-5 times to work with OMB first. Mike [Nizich] talked to them as well.”

In June 2008, Mr. Ruaro reported that Mr. Monegan wanted to make a trip to Washington, D.C. to lobby the Alaska Congressional Delegation for funding for a new statewide sexual assault initiative run by his Department of Public Safety at an estimated cost of $10 million to $20 million dollars per year—even though it would only handle about thirty cases. Governor Palin, while supportive of the policy objectives, had previously made clear that she did not wish this proposal to move forward until DPS provided a detailed plan for the program’s costs and funding streams.

Problems with Mr. Monegan’s planned trip to DC continued to arise. First, Mr. Monegan had still not received OMB’s approval to pursue his plan. Second, Governor Palin’s office in Washington, D.C. was concerned about the lack of “internal agreement” over Mr. Monegan’s proposal. By July 2008, these twin problems had become synonymous with Mr. Monegan’s work at the Department. Yet Mr. Monegan persisted in planning to make the unauthorized lobbying trip to D.C. as late as July 7, 2008, and it was this which proved to be the last straw.

On July 11, 2008, following eight months of insubordination on the budget issue and hard on the heels of his planned unauthorized trip to Washington, Mr. Monegan was terminated.

At the end of the day, even Mr. Monegan himself recognized that his rogue mentality ultimately prevented him from fully integrating into the Governor’s cabinet. In a farewell email following his dismissal, Monegan encouraged his colleagues to pursue more productive behaviors in their continued service of Alaska and the Governor: “All relationships are based upon communications; I have known and said this for years, yet I stood back because I hadn’t wanted to add to her concerns. For anyone to lead effectively they must have the support of their team, and I had waited too long outside her door for her to believe that I supported her. Please, choose a different path.”

As a political appointee, Mr. Monegan served at the pleasure of the Governor and was duty-bound to execute the Governor’s policy objectives. After eight months of repeatedly ignoring the Governor’s budget priorities, making public statements that directly challenged the Governor’s policy agenda and taking numerous unilateral actions in conflict with the Governor in support of his own policy agenda, his replacement in July 2008 should have come as no surprise and cannot now seriously be questioned.


link

47 posted on 09/16/2008 7:39:17 AM PDT by bobsunshine
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To: bvw; snarkytart

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2082898/posts?page=45#2

“This guy has got some dirt on him too. His ex says he threatened her life with a gun, and he dislocated her shoulder. He admits to it, but said it was while “playing”, just like the trooper Whooten was just “playing” when he taser his 10 year old.”

Snarky, can you provide a link for your post above. I’m sure you didn’t just make it up but others are getting gas over it.


48 posted on 09/16/2008 7:48:04 AM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: pissant

Sarah is a reformer who is telling everybody that she vetoed unnecessary spending. It appears that this guy was one of the obstacles that was trying to keep the status quo. She had him resign. At the end of the day this story will be a positive for Sarah as it will show just how much opposition she had to deal with to keep the budget small. Another media effort blows up in their face. Sarah showed her character by not releasing these memos to try to protect this guy from the embarassment of having the whole nation see what he did. He can thank the Democrats for the truth coming out.


49 posted on 09/16/2008 8:01:17 AM PDT by winner3000
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To: AmericaUnited; snarkytart
In the Wooten case there is plenty of supporting evidence to give credence to the claims that he was a dangerous husband and father and a bad cop. For example the 911 call transcripts of the night Wooten threatened to harm his wife's parents if they helped her get a divorce attorney -- I saw those on The Smoking Gun website. These and other evidences rise above, imo, the bickering and hard-to-judge claims made in a contentious divorce.

To make a bold statement that someone is a wife-beater is slander, unless you note that your statement is your own judgment informed by such-and-such, and the level of that such-and-such should be more than a rumor, more than a bad word during a contested legal proceeding. Thanks for asking snarytart to give some supporting evidence.

50 posted on 09/16/2008 8:02:58 AM PDT by bvw
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