McCain shakes off GOP's anti-immigration right [cold shoulder to Barletta of Hazleton]

The Boston Globe - Political Intelligence ^ | 2008-09-22 | Sasha Issenberg

[Osage Orange]

Please point out where I've said anyone should vote for Obama. Can't do it? I didn't think so.

IMO, you actively support Obama...when you don't support his opposition. Below is what I responded to earlier.

The only thing sicker than McCain are the people who refuse to see what a tragically flawed figure he is. (Shakespeare couldn't have done better.)

That's okay...cause I understand where you are coming from.....

FWIW-

[Norman Bates]

If he attempts a blanket amnesty, yes.

[E. Cartman]

No, historically the Western hemisphere has been defined as The New World i.e. The Americas, which do not include Europe.

[VictoryGal]

> IMO, you actively support Obama...when you don’t support his opposition.

I seriously, seriously disagree. I don’t support McCain. I’ll probably vote for him, with a sick feeling in my heart, but support him? No.

If that makes me an active supporter of Osbama, I’ll hafta ask you to step outside... :-)

[editor-surveyor]

"Okay, that’s over the top."

Your top must be in a different place than mine; I thought it was low level.

Are you trying to convince us McCain is “God’s will”??"

Whatever happens will obviously be God's will, since he rules in the affairs of nations.

" And anyone who sees through him is an ‘unbeliever’?"

Sees through him? How about seeing how the Lord is working through him? Can Sarah Palin be anything but an answer to millions of prayers? If you ask but have no faith, you cannot receive.

There is no reasonable choice but to vote for McCain, regardless of your personal appraisal of him; He makes a reasonably believable, if imperfect, profession of faith in Christ. There is no question re: Obama, he is a Muslim, as he proved in his interview with George Stepinawfulstuff, saying "my Muslim faith" as glibly, and naturally as one who has said it for his entire life. He is also a supporter of terror, and urban terrorists, income redistribution, abolition of property, and confiscatory taxes.

To throw a tantrum and not vote for McCain because your chosen candidate didn't win is to passively vote for Obama.

[DoughtyOne]

I understand where you are coming from. That doesn’t mean that I buy off that God is working through the likes of John McCain.

When I look at John’s history, I think blasphemy before I think the claim that God is working through him is closer to the truth.

I do not intend to state you are guilty of such a thing here. I don’t want you to go away with that thought. You are not the only person trying to make the point. I’m only trying to express how I see it. I simply cannot buy into the idea that John is God’s ombudsman. I have said it before, and I’ll say it again here. Within one to two years, you will see what McCain has done to this nation, and you’ll understand why I cannot attribute his actions to God working through him.

It is unfortunate that we have to disagree on this, because I believe we share a large segment of our views and goals. That’s why it would be pointless to slam you on purpose, or to call you blasphemous. I’m simply making the case as strongly as I can, that I do not see John in the role you do. And I know you are sincere. I accept that.

I think Obama is evil. I think McCain is evil. I would never soil myself by voting for either of these men.

My fellow Americans disagreed with me. They thought John was the right man. That was their choice. I do not agree, and I remain resolute in not voting for him.

I know this bothers you quite a bit. I understand why it does, and I wish things were different and I didn’t have to take this stand.

I would have begrudgingly voted for just about any of the other Republican candidates. John’s self-centered attitude over the last decade was so repulsive to me, that I swore I would never support him. I never will.

[DoughtyOne]

Here’s the bottom line Norman. McCain states he’s going to get the border under control. I don’t believe we ever will get it completely under control, but we will reduce the flow by a massive amount, if we truly want to. Isn’t this more or less a smoke and mirror tactic though.

What is our beef with illegal immigration?

Isn’t it that these folks can’t support themselves? Isn’t it that they are inundating our communities, causing a myriad of problems at our schools, our hospitals, our infrastructure, and even government programs?

What are we trying to stop then? Aren’t we trying to stop the negative impact on our society, the flooding of our nation with citizens from another that don’t speak our language and that can’t support themselves?

So what is the McCain plan? Well he says it’s to get the border under control. That sounds pretty good until you start to think about what his plan entails.

What has been the normal flow of illegal aliens over the last decade? Claims have been made that upwards of 3.5 million were coming across each year. Time Magazine made that claim. I thought that was silly, but I do believe somewhere between 1 and 2 million probably were.

John’s plan starts off with about 450,000 work visas. That plan allows for a 20% increase each year if certain criteria are met. Within five years that number will grown to 750,000. In ten years it will be in excess of 1 million per year. The reason I say this, is because each year the criteria is met and 20% are added to that year’s number, that years number plus the 20% become the next year’s base line. Each year the number climbs by 20%.

So what John is pulling here, is to claim the border is under control. As soon as we buy off on that, he nationalizes between 20 & 35 million illegals. And then he turns on the flow of ‘legal work visas’ to shortly match the flow of illegals that were coming over. And those folks impact our system just as negatively as the illegals did. John is just making the whole process legal.

What happens if these people here on work permits re-up after three years, and spend six years here total? At the present time it is my understanding that after living here for something like five years, these people can apply for resident status. Then they are on the fast track to citizenship.

John isn’t fooling me. His plan is to flood this nation will poor undereducated people that will drain this nation dry, and impact our culture in a massive negative manner.

Hipanics vote Democrat. John will put in motion a plan that will see the Hispanic populace go from 13% of our nation, to between 30 and 40% within one generation.

His amnesty alone will see between 20 & 35 million become legal right away. It will see them become citizens in five or so years. And when they have become citizens they will be able to petition the government to allow their relatives to come over. We’ll talking about 70 ot 100 million more foreign nationals withing ten to twelve years.

This doesn’t even take into consideration the work visa people who will be piling up inside our nation, on the fast track to citizenship themselves, who will then bring their relatives over.

And all these people will be impacting our society in as negative a manner as you could imagine. We have seen how it works. Now we’re going to institutionalize it, and watch it just explode.

When John talks about securing the border, I just cringe.

Folks are going to roll over for this guy’s plan. When they do, our nation will never be the same again. Our melting pot will overflow down the sides, all over the oven and onto the floor. It will be a sad day for me, watching this nation taken down like that.

[Osage Orange]

Support means....many things. Voting for him would be one.

I've drawn hands shooting the finger on his "money pleas" return mailings.

I'm ready to meet you for a cup of coffee...or a beer.

Name the place, baby. : )

[Norman Bates]

“John isn’t fooling me. His plan is to flood this nation will poor undereducated people that will drain this nation dry, and impact our culture in a massive negative manner.”

Now why would anyone set out to do that?

I don’t know where you get the 20-35 million number from.

The guest worker program is designed to take the strain off the border. It will likely be temporary and will have biometric, tamper-proof ID.

He will also deport criminal illegals. Further, not everyone who applies will make it and they will have to go to the back of the line.

[DoughtyOne]

Okay Norman. You’re right and I’m wrong. Take care.

D1

[Norman Bates]

LOL, I’m probably wrong. Who knows?

[DoughtyOne]

“John isn’t fooling me. His plan is to flood this nation will with poor undereducated people that will drain this nation dry, and impact our culture in a massive negative manner.”

Now why would anyone set out to do that?  Massive cheap labor pool.  It's the same reason they have been allowed to congregate here up until now.

I don’t know where you get the 20-35 million number from.  The INS stated we had eight or nine million in 2000, when they revised their figures.  If they admitted to that many, my take is that there are at least a couple of million more.  They only admit to who they can find, and nobody will convince me they found them all.  Since 2000 we have had between 1.5 and 2.5 million coming across each year.  12 million plus the original 8 million is 20 million.  If as I suspect there were more, and the low 1.5 million figure is too conservative, we're looking at 25 to 35 million.  We have no way of knowing what the figures are.  That's why I provide such a wide spread.  In 1986, the feds said there were 1.5 million illegals in country.  There turned out to be 3.5 million who took advantage of the amnesty, and some reports state that not everyone took advantage of the offering.  The government never cites accurate figures when they address the numbers.

The guest worker program is designed to take the strain off the border. It will likely be temporary and will have biometric, tamper-proof ID.  The guest worker program is precisely what Mexico and the illegal immigration activists have been demanding for the last fifteen years.  Not only is the U.S. set to grant amnesty to all the illegals already here, they are going to make it unneccessary for Mexican nationals to cross the border illegaly.  That's the beauty of this plan from the Mexican point of view.  Illegal immigration will be a thing of the past.  Millions will now be able to walk over legally now.  Those have been the number one and two demands of the Mexican government, the Mexican populace, the illegal immigrants, and the racist/socialist organizations that have been pushing this invasion.  They're getting it.  What are the U.S. Citizens getting?  We're getting a new legal way for Mexican nationals to flood our nation and sap our resources, while they vote for the Democrats as soon as they become citizens.

He will also deport criminal illegals. Further, not everyone who applies will make it and they will have to go to the back of the line.  The small amount of illegal immigration that will continue, will be the very people you mention here.

It's really pointless to continue talking about this.  I have to explain it over and over and people don't believe it anyway.

I tried to warn people what was coming.  This has been my issue for the last 15 years.  Tell me what you think the impact will be when these people flood the nation and they get to vote?

Right now Hispanics heavily favor the Democrats at the polling booth, because the Democrats are willing to promise and give them everything for their votes.  Tell me what it portends when a new 35% segment of our nation is deep in the hip pocket of the Democrats.

Do you think that contributes to our nation passing sound policy, or electing good leaders?

[ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas]

>>Tell me what you think the impact will be when these people flood the nation and they get to vote?<<

The standard answer is that the Dems would take control of all 3 branches of government forever. However, through pandering to new, uneducated voters who are used to living under desperate conditions, new leftist parties could make us say it wasn’t so bad when the “old” Dems were in control.

[DoughtyOne]

You’ve got a point. Now there’s the consolation prize of the ages. LOL