If McCain wins, should we all move to Scandinavia? (atheist alert)

Salon ^ | Oct 22, 2008 | Louis Bayard

[GoLightly]

The real Christians left Scandinavia and came the to United States as legal immigrants back in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s

Some Scandinavians were planting churches in the US in the 1840s & 1850s. Muskego, Koshkonong & a bunch of Holt/Holden/Hope congregations were established before your time line.

Everywhere church & state were directly mingled shows a reduction in the faith of the populations.

[GoLightly]

There still lots of "real Christians," and real Christian pastors, left in the lands of Scandinavia, it's just that they're badly outnumbered.

When you have a state trying to cut out portions of the Bible, because they're politically incorrect, those "real Christians" are swimming against the tide. I've seen it in news out of Denmark & Canada.

Is it any wonder that I see signs of the end times famine all around me?

[GoLightly]

This is all very sad--and personally so for me. I have spent a lot of time in Sweden (and Denmark, too). I have a lot of family and friends there. On top of that, I'm a Lutheran pastor who actually believes, teaches, and confesses the historic Christian faith.

I've found very little news about the state of the church in Norway. I'm thinking it's possibly because Norwegians are considered to be less enlightened by most other Scandinavians.

My grandparents came from Sweden and believed it, too. How that ostensibly Lutheran nation has fallen!

I have to go back a few more generations than you to find my direct connection to Europe. My Norwegian & German immigrant ancestors were all involved in building churches, including one who was a delegate when the Norwegian Synod in Wisconsin was formed in 1853.

My Swede seems to have emigrated mostly due to the economic condition of Sweden in 1888. It's been difficult to nail down anything about his faith, because he was a rare Swede in a "Norwegian" American community.

[Moby Grape]

I think CUBA would be the BEST place for liberals to move to. Universal Healthcare and gun control...a real paradise for liberals.

[hout8475]

I’d go for that or maybe Australia.

[GoLightly]

I assume the screed rests its argument on “Natural Law”.

[GoLightly]

I think CUBA would be the BEST place for liberals to move to. Universal Healthcare and gun control...a real paradise for liberals.

American liberalism has survived in the right & the left has been trying to kill it off. Those who currently call themselves liberal or progressive aren't liberals, they're collectivist leftists.

It would be nice if they'd do what our religious ancestors did, vote with their feet. Instead, most of them stay in place, crap in their beds & try to force the rest of us to wallow in it.

[Citizen Blade]

No mention of gang rapes by imported muslims

All of the Scandinavian countries have less rapes per capita than the US.

[Citizen Blade]

I wonder why he didn’t mention the fact that the Mohammedan fiends have pretty much taken over most of Scandinavia.

Because they haven't. Muslim immigrants are a problem in some Scandinavian/Nordic countries, but they certainly have not "taken over."

[Ironfocus]

I guess he forgets to mention that Scandinavia ranks among the highest in suicide rates around the world. And that Finland has had two school shootings in less than a year.

[nclaurel]

Be still my heart...an America without atheist!

[WesternCulture]

“a suicide rate twice that of America.”

Incorrect.

The suicide rate is only slightly higher in Scandinavia (around 13.5/100 000 people annually in Denmark and Sweden and around 11/100 000 people annually in Norway and Iceland) while USA had a rate of 11 per 100 000 people (in the year of 2005).

Finland on the other hand has a rate of around 20/100 000, however Finland is not a Scandinavian country although it often is associated with Scandinavia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

[KosmicKitty]

All of the Scandinavian countries have less rapes per capita than the US.

Guess it's too cold for Mr. Happy :-)

Sweden also has a growing immigrant problem. As do many European countries. Immigrants who cannot deal with women not covered head to toe.

[Earthdweller]

"Take away God, and our destiny doesn't look quite so manifest. The shining city on a hill becomes just another city, just another hill."

Oh Gee..and I was so looking forward to the lecture on European oppression.

[rosenfan]

How do you have “unalienable rights endowed by our Creator” if there’s no Creator?

You can assert that unalienable rights are endowed upon us by a Creator, as in the Declaration, but unless you can prove it though objective evidence, it's just that...an assertion, not a fact.

[MrB]

OK, I’ll agree. YOU don’t have unalienable rights. I do.

[rosenfan]

I never said that anyone did or didn't have unalienable rights. They may exist...they may not. I simply pointed out that there's no way to prove their existence (or non-existence, for that matter).

[MrB]

Back to the point.

The founders created our country based on their worldview that there is indeed a Creator, and our rights come from that Creator, and are inviolable by the institutions of Man.

Now, if you don’t think this is a given, then you have no basis for declaring that you have any inviolable rights.

[Trailerpark Badass]

Actually, I'll let sociologist Phil Zuckerman propose it. In "Society Without God: What the Least Religious Nations Can Tell Us About Contentment," he tells of a magical land where life expectancy is high and infant mortality low, where wealth is spread and genders live in equity, where happy, fish-fed citizens score high in every quality-of-life index: economic competitiveness, healthcare, environmental protection, lack of corruption, educational investment, technological literacy ... well, you get the idea.

And all the people are white.

[rosenfan]

I agree with you on the following point: it is a given that the Founders created our country based on their worldview that there is indeed a Creator, and our rights come from that Creator, and are inviolable by the institutions of Man.

That fact that this was their worldview does not make it true. Until objective evidence shows the existence of inviolable rights, their existence remains an assertion. In the meantime we can continue to operate as if they existed.

Which they may. Or may not.