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What Has Driven Women Out of Computer Science?
NY Times ^ | November 16, 2008 | RANDALL STROSS

Posted on 11/15/2008 8:33:25 PM PST by neverdem

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To: jamaksin
Um ... Ada (As in Lady Lovelace, but to note the Intel 432 spoke only Ada), that well-known replacement of JOVIAL (another ill-fated language).

My cousin was writing avionics software in JOVIAL at Boeing. That was in the early 90s. I wonder if Ada actually replaced JOVIAL for that application. I've watched a few projects launched in Ada. After months making no progress, they were ordered to switch to C++ by the customer. While they made more progress, it wasn't stellar as they had retained the "ada engineers" to write C++. They were clueless when it came to writing constructors, destructors, initializers, copy constructors, assignment operators and a host of other common C++ coding tasks.

181 posted on 11/16/2008 10:47:27 AM PST by Myrddin
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To: Myrddin

Yowza! See, that’s what instantly drove me out of the field before my feet were even wet. I take an average of 6 weeks vacation per year, and I like it that way.


182 posted on 11/16/2008 10:48:55 AM PST by Melas (Offending stupid people since 1963)
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To: reaganaut1

There was a study several years ago about the extrovert / introvert ratio for various professions. The group with the highest number of isolated introverts was park rangers. The second group was IS professionals.

Women tend to require more social interaction than men. They tend to avoid both of these professions.

Now my question is this: It seems to me that the majority of women in the computer field specialize in database. I have no idea why.


183 posted on 11/16/2008 10:55:11 AM PST by gitmo (I am the latte-sipping, NYT-reading, Volvo-driving, no-gun-owning, effete, PC, arrogant liberal. -BO)
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001
I was working at PacBell when the 1100/64, 1100/72 and 1100/92 machines were installed in the data centers in San Diego and Hayward. My projects at the time include PREMIS/LAC, LFACS and SOAC. In 1996, I moved to the COSMOS project to replaced 172 PDP11/70 machines with UNISYS 7000 (CCI Power 6/32) processors running a variant of SystemV/BSD UNIX. That was a draining exercise as I pushed the guys at CCI to fix the X25 L2/L3 stack and build a decent X.29 PAD layer to work with our Amdahl network. The X25 stack started with only the minimal necessary capability to set up L2 links with Milnet. Later, I had to fix the serial device driver and redesign the CPU scheduler to make the machines run efficiently. I had 30,000 company employee "customers" to cut over from the PDP11 hardware to the new platform. Big risk, big reward.
184 posted on 11/16/2008 10:55:30 AM PST by Myrddin
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To: jimt
I have always loved assembler,

the neat (and important) thing is that it teaches how it all works under the hood. C is like that to some extent. Come to think of it, w/ C you can also get a good feel for how the underlying OS works as well.

185 posted on 11/16/2008 11:02:00 AM PST by TiberiusClaudius
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To: GingisK
The book stores are really pretty poor with respect to CS and EE titles now. In the early 80s, I went to a Western Electric course on "curses" API programming in San Jose. While in town, I paid a visit to the Computer Literacy bookstore. It deserved a 5 star rating. You could find anything on any topic. The San Diego Technical book store was a close 2nd.

Today, I purchase my tech books from Amazon, Barnes & Noble and Borders. Amazon has a good everyday price. Borders puts out 20%-40% off list coupons on a regular basis. That is a good approach when Amazon offers no discount. A B&N membership is useful on those rare occasions when the store stocks a title you want. My recent purchase of Skolnik's 3rd edition Radar Handbook was accomplished via a "used" book listing on Amazon. I paid $90 for a book with a list of $166 and everyday discount to $118. Aside from a remainder mark, it is new.

186 posted on 11/16/2008 11:05:35 AM PST by Myrddin
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To: FredZarguna
The underlying cause is mathematical inclination.

I've been in software development for more than 35 years, and I am good at mathematics. But it is my experience that very few programming professionals have an eighth grade math capability. Unless you are programming for an engineering firm, 5th grade arithmetic suffices.

187 posted on 11/16/2008 11:05:35 AM PST by gitmo (I am the latte-sipping, NYT-reading, Volvo-driving, no-gun-owning, effete, PC, arrogant liberal. -BO)
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To: CE2949BB

I googled “emo girls” and there are lots of pictures out there. But what the heck does “emo girl” mean?


188 posted on 11/16/2008 11:08:52 AM PST by gitmo (I am the latte-sipping, NYT-reading, Volvo-driving, no-gun-owning, effete, PC, arrogant liberal. -BO)
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To: rbg81
Most big defense companies are begging for software developers 'cause their existing employees are retiring and no one wants to work for them (not cool enough and too much paperwork).

My company has plenty of openings for software engineers. The sticking point is getting the security clearance AND having the right skills. Those jobs aren't getting outsourced, but many aren't getting filled either. You also have to be willing to relocate as the classified tasks are going to be done at a specific geographic location. You need to live nearby to come to work.

189 posted on 11/16/2008 11:11:47 AM PST by Myrddin
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To: usmcobra

Porn? How do you connect computer science and porn? There’s nothing sexy about OOP, normalizing databases, DASD allocation, coding EDI transactions, or designing SSIS packages.


190 posted on 11/16/2008 11:15:44 AM PST by gitmo (I am the latte-sipping, NYT-reading, Volvo-driving, no-gun-owning, effete, PC, arrogant liberal. -BO)
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To: jimt
I was astounded to find CS grads who knew NOTHING about assembler. No wonder Vista is such bloatware.

My students at Southwestern College (1980-1983) received a good dose of 6800 and 8085 assembly language. The class used some dedicated 6800 single board computers made by EPA and a Hewlett Packard SBC based on the 8085. It was a bit primitive. We "assembled" on graph paper. Addresses down the first column, mnemonics in the 2nd column, arguments in the 3rd column, comments in the 4th column. Most loops required a 2's comp calculation to make a relative jump backwards. I had the entire 6800 op code set memorized to facilitate rapid examination and debug of the student's work before it was entered into the trainer.

After 3 1/2 years of teaching this class as a mixed academic/Regional Occupational Program course, the ROP administrator reported that 91% of my students had been hired by DEC or IBM. A few of them had jobs maintaining equipment installed at my PacBell data center.

A couple weeks ago, I discovered the C18 compiler used in my embedded system was not doing a unsigned 16-bit X unsigned 16-bit multiply properly. I had to write a few lines of assembler to do it right. No big deal. I wrote all the A to D code in assembler as well. One of the tasks in the chip is to sample 3 accelerometer channels at 128 samples per second. The RMS and peak calculations are then forwarded over the CAN bus to the PC104 Linux system.

191 posted on 11/16/2008 11:32:45 AM PST by Myrddin
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To: gitmo
First, there's a lot of mathematical programming outside of engineering. Game programming is highly mathematical. So are animation and rendering, and those are just two mainstream applications I can name off the top of my head. My own research had nothing to do with engineering: it consisted of Monte Carlo simulations of quantum fluids on surfaces. Scientific programming isn't engineering. So please, don't make a generalization based on such limited experience.

Second, you haven't challenged my point at all. My claim is mathematical inclination, and it stands: women are (statistically) less interested and less proficient in pure logic and mathematics. There are structural changes in the human brain that occur as early as in utero as a result of male hormones. This isn't politically correct, but it's the truth. That isn't to say some women aren't capable: it's a statistic, which has no valid application to individuals. But statistics is what this article discusses. And for any Amy Noether or Marie Curie you can name I can name dozens of equally or more capable men who've advanced mathematics, mathematical physics, science and engineering.

192 posted on 11/16/2008 11:36:33 AM PST by FredZarguna (Archimedes, Newton, Leibniz, James and John Bernoulli, Euler, Gauss, Riemann, Hermite, Laplace...)
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To: TiberiusClaudius
I hate to share your abject cynicism, but some of the most mind-numbing work I've ever done is web-site design.

I have to do the web site work as collateral duty. Along with keeping the Linux system patches up to date and system backups. My Apache server also doubles as a means to capture my incoming data from the rail cars. The company firewall only allows TCP/22 and TCP/80. Incoming data arrives via TCP/80 to a CGI coded in C for speed. Less demanding CGI apps are done in python. The database back end ia mySQL. I have to do the database admin too.

193 posted on 11/16/2008 11:37:43 AM PST by Myrddin
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To: Melas
Yowza! See, that’s what instantly drove me out of the field before my feet were even wet. I take an average of 6 weeks vacation per year, and I like it that way.

I've purchased a hunting license every year since moving to Idaho in 2000. Inevitably, the new contracts get funded in October or products need to be delivered over the "holidays". I have yet to hunt anything since moving. Even the paper targets and spinners are feeling neglected.

194 posted on 11/16/2008 11:40:15 AM PST by Myrddin
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To: gitmo
Unless you are programming for an engineering firm, 5th grade arithmetic suffices.

I suppose that is why the DSP heavy jobs still have openings. Some of my colleagues have attempted using the MATLAB compiler to create "MEX" files that are natively executable. Sadly, the code doesn't run as fast as the interpreted MATLAB code. That's good for me. My C++/assembler equivalents run like lightning. The only faster alternative is Xilinx FPGA implementations.

195 posted on 11/16/2008 11:45:44 AM PST by Myrddin
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
Sounds like quite a program. Thanks for the info.

I had some coworkers go to Providence a couple of years ago on business in late October and they went up to Salem on Halloween night. Judging from the pictures and their comments "freak show" just scratches the surface. ;-)

Best of luck to your son.

196 posted on 11/16/2008 11:56:51 AM PST by ItsForTheChildren
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To: BuffaloJack
She’s got 13 months left now until she gets her nursing degree.

I'm a good example of combining those two careers. I am both an RN (patient care for 20 yrs) and a clinical analyst in a hospital IT dept and absolutely love my work!
There are a lot of varied job opportunities out there in the nursing field if you are prepared to think "outside the box".

197 posted on 11/16/2008 11:57:56 AM PST by mollynme (cogito, ergo freepum)
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma

It’s been a great career for my husband. He’s made enough money for me to stay home with the kids, and we’ll probably be able to retire fairly young.


198 posted on 11/16/2008 12:51:13 PM PST by luckystarmom
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To: GingisK

In Silicon Valley, my husband can’t find enough engineers to hire. He said the salaries the engineers are asking are outrageous, even kids straight out of college.


199 posted on 11/16/2008 12:52:31 PM PST by luckystarmom
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To: ClayinVA

If your idea of Computer Science is MCSE or CCIE, you clearly do not understand Computer Science.


200 posted on 11/16/2008 5:13:33 PM PST by Starwolf
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