LDS and Proposition 8: A Definitive Guide

FAIRwiki ^ | 11/17/08 | FAIR

[EagleUSA]

Hey Queers — America is a country of LAWS. Leave if you don’t like it and cannot respect it. Oh, PLEASE LEAVE!!!

[Saundra Duffy]

“Church critics—most notably ex-Mormons—took advantage of the effort to promote their agenda by leveraging Prop 8 to enhance their attacks on the Church, even going so far as to attempt to publicly identify and humiliate members who had donated to the campaign.”

Attempt to “humiliate” members must have failed miserably. More like a badge of honor.

[nufsed]

Preserving traditional marriage? LOL! Isn’t this the church that had polygamy until the congress pressured them out of it. What’s their version of traditional marriage?

[TaraP]

Can they get back into the Closet please.

I am going to make a point to eat at El Coyote’s when I am in L.A...think they have one here in the San Diego area and I always listen to K-earth when I can get it on the radio...

[Admin Moderator]

In the future, please remember that the Activism sidebar is reserved for News/Activism of the FR chapters. Not this.

[Texan Tory]

“Preserving traditional marriage? LOL! Isn’t this the church that had polygamy until the congress pressured them out of it. What’s their version of traditional marriage?”

I think you’re kind of ignoring the current reality by bringing up practices that were discontinued about 120 years ago. The current reality is that the LDS church is very much about a one man/one woman traditional marriage. You don’t have to like it, but those are simply the facts on the ground.

[Admin Moderator]

Also, the topic of this thread is about Prop 8, the Mormon Church’s support of such, and tactics that Prop 8 opponents used against the Mormon Church. Posts that try to migrate away from such will be removed. There are other threads going that specifically deal with Prop 8 and Mormon dogma - this is not one of those.

[nufsed]

It’s hypocritical. I know the church wants to ignore it’s own history, but you can’t change facts. Tradition is a historical concept. That’s why they call it a tradition. Whether you and I like it or not, indeed.

[dbz77]

“Preserving traditional marriage? LOL! Isn’t this the church that had polygamy until the congress pressured them out of it. What’s their version of traditional marriage?”

Those are the key words. Congress had to bitch-slap them into accepting traditional marriage. We did to the homosexuals what was done to the Mormons.

[colorcountry]

It would behoove us all to remember that the Prop 8 haters are trying to use the issue of LDS and its supposed hatred toward gays in an effort to shut down the constitutional efforts by the LDS to preserve marriage.

There are also those LDS who try to use the charges of hatred to try and squelch logical discussion of their theology.

Free speech, is free speech. It is guaranteed by the constitution to everyone regardless of their political OR relgious stance. Let US try to not let charges of hatred permeate our discussions. We conservative should know better.

[nufsed]

Conservatives should also know the majority cannot restrict the rights of the minority to pursue happiness and to liberty by popular vote.

But, hey, don't let me get in the way of you protecting my marriage. And I'm thankful, I didn't even know it was in danger.

[colorcountry]

Are you gay? Just asking...

[Texan Tory]

“I know the church wants to ignore it’s own history”

It seems there’s no statute of limitations when it comes to Mormons and their prior involvement in polygamy. Polygamy was once sanctioned within the Jewish faith (e.g. David, Solomon, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and others), but that was more than two thousand years ago, so I guess my Jewish friends get a pass on that :-).

[goldstategop]

The Mormons have done nothing more sinister than to voice their views on an issue of moral importance. Gays may disagree with that view. But they not allowed to go out and prevent Mormons and any one else from expressing their views in this society. There is a line between respectful dissent and principled advocacy of one's views to coercion against others and retaliation against others for holding views different from your own. That is the line radical gay extremists have crossed. And their taking it out on the Mormons presents a real danger to other people who are not as prominent but hold similar views on the issue. Marriage is issue on which people may differ. But no one should be allowed to tell those of us, who like the Mormons, believe as a matter of moral principle, that marriage is a union of a man and a woman, to keep our peace on the subject to spare others' feelings.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[nufsed]

You’re just solidifying my case. So now we have more traditional marriages including polygamy. I rest your case.

[nufsed]

Just asking, do you agree with my point or not. If not, why? It's based upon historical fact.

If I'm a man married to a woman would it make it easier for you to agree? Just asking.

[Colofornian]

Preserving traditional marriage? LOL! Isn’t this the church that had polygamy until the congress pressured them out of it. What’s their version of traditional marriage? [nufsed]

I think you’re kind of ignoring the current reality by bringing up practices that were discontinued about 120 years ago. [Texan Tory]

Well, it's obvious, Texan Tory, that you're either 100% ignorant or are just intentionally ignoring two facts:

(a) In his book, Mormon Doctrine, LDS apostle Bruce R. McConkie stated in 1966 that polygamy is a "holy practice" and that this "holy practice...will commence again after the Second Coming of the Son of Man and the ushering of the millennium." (Mormon Doctrine, p. 578)

So, the "discontinuance" you reference would itself be "discontinued" tomorrow if the Mormon version of Jesus returned tomorrow.

(b) Mormons believe marriage is forever; so every past polygamist has simply shifted over to a different colony to live (beyond the veil). Furthermore, every serial monogamist -- according to Mormon thought -- becomes an eternal polygamist, provided that he or she was "temple worthy" when they died and provided those unions were recorded in the temple as "for eternity".

[Colofornian]

the topic of this thread is about Prop 8, the Mormon Church’s support of such, and tactics that Prop 8 opponents used against the Mormon Church. Posts that try to migrate away from such will be removed. There are other threads going that specifically deal with Prop 8 and Mormon dogma - this is not one of those.

I understand that the main thrust of this is about Prop 8, and therefore it would be great if most of the comments addressed it. However, the following paragraph is directly from the article:

How does the Church reconcile its opposition to same-sex marriage when it once supported plural marriage? The same type of question was asked when, after supporting polygamy for years, the Church ceased its practice. The Church no longer practices polygamy, and should not be confused with splinter groups who continue the practice.

Are you saying that we can't even address comments about polygamy that the author of this article has already raised?

(Secondly we need to realize that FAIR isn't a news organization and isn't approaching this subject as a news operation. It's an apologetics organization and it's taking a cultural apologetics angle. Just because we may happen to agree with many things social and culturally with FAIR doesn't mean we are to be handcuffed in attempting to address those things they mention in this article, does it?)

[colorcountry]

I really can’t tell what your point is. Maybe I’m just dense. That’s why I asked, just what is it you’re defending?