[Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)]

Here is #6.

Actually, unbeknownst to most folks, he is Irish...O’bama from the Black Irish.

Doesn’t anybody know anything???

Geez!!!

[savedbygrace]

As for your #3, this is not a criminal issue at the moment. It is a Constitutional issue, and the Constitution seems clearly to put the burden of proof on the person claiming to be qualified for the office, not on his/her accusers.

[tumblindice]

Barry Does Aretha/King

Looking out on the morning rain
I used to feel uninspired
And when I knew I had to face another day
Lord, it made me feel so tired
Before the day I met you, life was so unkind
But your love was the key to peace my mind

Cause you make me feel, you make me feel, you make me feel like
A natural born citizen

[LiberConservative]

I want this story to go away as well. I’m afraid of the chaos that will ensue if it doesn’t.

[usmcobra]

First off this is NOT a criminal case, or at least not yet, and as a civil case the rules of discovery are different, Obama must provide his proof that he was born in Hawaii or the case will be decided against him because he refused to provide the proof that he was born in this country.

Always remember that.

[Anitius Severinus Boethius]

This is ridiculous, and I can't believe I am posting this yet again. In 1790 Congress first passed the law that includes children born to an American parent while overseas to be considered “Natural Born”.

Anne Durham was a Natural Born American. Barack Obama is therefore a Natural Born American regardless of where he was born or what the citizenship status of his father was.

This 1790 definition has been revised, written to close loopholes, and clarified several times in the last 218 years, but looking at each revision it is clear:

If a child is born to a Natural Born American, there is no doubt that the child is a Natural Born American.

[oldfart]

Like many of you, I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Let me toss this out in the ring for everyone to think about.

I know a young woman who grew up with no father. Her mother had told her that daddy was dead. Eventually though, she found out that mommy was a liar who just didn’t want to let daddy back into her life.

What if Obama had been told all his life that he had been born in Hawaii. He even has a “Certificate of Live Birth” to prove it. Then he decides to run for President and someone suggests he might not have been born on American soil. At first he would ignore such a claim but if it persisted he would show his COLB. Then someone picked it apart and he had to go to Plan B which entailed paying a lot of lawyers a bunch of money to keep the records closed because some of those claims just might force the issue.

All this time though he thinks he really is a ‘natural born citizen’ but those low-life Republicans are gunning for him because he’s black.

Now, his maternal grandmother is dying so he goes to Hawaii to see her. While there he makes a few calls to State offices and finds that he really wasn’t born in the USA.

Now what does he do? He has two options— both bad. He can confess to the world that he cannot be President which is guaranteed to cause all sorts of civil turmoil, including riots or he can suck it up and try to bluff his way into the oval office. If he can succeed in usurping the Presidency he can run out the clock on all the cases that have been filed to challenge his citizenship.

It has been noted and commented on that he seems to have aged since the election... that he has developed a nervous tic in his face and now he’s choosing cabinet members from the Clinton administration.

I think he now finds himself on a very scary ride with no easy way to get off. I don’t like him but I certainly don’t envy him either.

[seekthetruth]

What kind of original birth certificate do you think he has under seal in Hawaii?
1. One that says he was born in Hawaii? Great, he is still not a “natural born” citizen per the Constitution because his father was Kenyan and a British subject at the time of Obama’s birth. Obama is a citizen, but not a “natural born” citizen.

2. One that says he was born in Kenya? Then he is still not a “natural born” citizen because he was’t born on US soil.

So what kind of original birth certificate do you think he has that would show he is a “natural born” citizen? And why didn’t he show it months ago???

[Vendome]

Didn’t this guy’s mother have to provide his birth certificate to go to elementary school, High School, International School.

Didn’t he have to provide his BC to go to college(a couple of times), Job applications, etc.

Whatever is provided from Hawaii must be a duplicate of what has been provided before otherwise it is inconsistent and probably a fraud.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

First, there is always the chance that there is a valid birth certificate proving Obama to be a US citizen.

If true, it would have been produced already instead of the forgery on his website. Next.

Second, enough time has passed such that the Obama cult has manufactured and installed a phony certificate that will re-route us back up to option 1 above, he will have a valid certificate.

You can't "manufacture" a phony birth certificate, especially one created in 1961. The original one has the Mother's and Doctor's signature. Both of them have passed away. Plus there's the embossed seal. The paper used then would be hard to find or probably doesn't exist now.

Also the original one is stored on microfiche and any duplication or forgery would be compared to that one - ASSUMING IT EXISTS.

Who do you think works in these kinds of government offices? They're all democrats.

They're likely older workers who have been in these positions for years and are not open about their party affiliation.

Third, no court is going to force Obama to prove himself to be a citizen, the burden is on those making the accusation that he is not a citizen.

Then that court is violating the Constitution. The proof is on Obama to prove that he is a natural-born citizen.

A criminal doesn't have to prove he didn't commit a crime, the state has to prove that he did.

Specious comparison - criminals usually don't run for a powerful office in which their background is normally scrutinized either.

Fame on, and sorry for the Vanity, but this is driving me nutz

Do you care about the Rule of Law and the Constitution or not??

[Smokin' Joe]

Third, no court is going to force Obama to prove himself to be a citizen, the burden is on those making the accusation that he is not a citizen. A criminal doesn't have to prove he didn't commit a crime, the state has to prove that he did.

I hope you are wrong. Otherwise there is no Republic.

This is not a criminal case. We are asking someone to prove they are Constitutionally qualified for the job, because that has been called into question. They must meet the requirements. No employer ever had to prove someone was unqualified for a job/position, the burden fell on the applicant to prove they were qualified.

We the People, are the employers.

[rswan6574]

I think you may be correct. But since ‘natural-born’ status is determined by the fathers nationality at the time of birth where he was born is meaningless if Obama, Sr. is really his father.

I believe that Obama does have a legitimate birth certificate proving that he was born in Hawaii, and that he is a ‘natural-born’ citizen. It’s just that it would show that Obama, Sr. is NOT his father. But someone else, i.e. Frank Davis?

This would be why he doesn’t want to show it. At the very least the birth certificate would show him to be a fraud and that his personal history, and his two “biographies”, are nothing but trash. He may have committed some crimes here too, I don’t know.

The FBI, the State Dept., and our Congresscritters all probably know this. That’s why he was allowed to be a Senator and get a passport. Howard Dean and the Clintoons also probably know. But none of them want to rain on The One’s parade down Pennsylvania Avenue.

[TheThinker]

Third, no court is going to force Obama to prove himself to be a citizen, the burden is on those making the accusation that he is not a citizen. A criminal doesn't have to prove he didn't commit a crime, the state has to prove that he did.

How is that when this is not a criminal matter? The burden of proof, I think, is on Obama if he wants to attain the position of President. The burden is on him.

[Kevmo]

Point #2 is something I’ve been saying for a while and no one else seems to care much about. Thanks for going to the trouble of putting this thread up. Of course, you’ll get flamed, but it’s worth it if we can figure out how to deal with it.

[rintense]

Fourth: He was born of a jackal so there is no birth certificate.

[Deaf Smith]

I didn't read anyone suspect what I do...that the Gov of Hawaii, since she had her hands on the state's *document* that she may have marked it in some manner to be sure that it will stay as the original.

Another reason she didn't need to go to the Gov's meeting on the mainland.

[RetroSexual]

My feelings on your points:

1) I think that there probably is a valid birth certificate. The abbreviated certificate he has produced, however, is lacking in a lot of interesting details. Why does he not produce the "long form" certificate? I think there's something there that he wants to hide. It may not disprove citizenship, but I'll bet it's somehow damning.

2) Yeah, there are O-Holes in every government office, but they're much more likely to deal with the pressure by ignoring or obscuring the accusations. I doubt they can forge a credible document. Although given Obama's budget, I'd say this is your strongest point.

3) The matter WILL go to court. Here's the scenario as I see it: The Supremes fail to grant cert on Friday, and Obama is sworn in on January 20th. Then he begins to sign in laws and to make executive orders. Very quickly, someone will challenge his authority to sign those documents, and a court case will be mounted. The entire administration will be de-legitimized until Obama can prove that he meets the constitutional requirements to hold the Office of the Presidency, and the case will be fast-tracked to the Supreme Court. Talk about a constitutional crisis!

But then we'll find out what's so interesting about that birth certificate (assuming that it exists at all).

[LibLieSlayer]

Why are you posting on a subject that you are sick of... why promote it further if you are tired of it??? I do not care where he was born but I do want the truth to be known. Even Ted Olson will not venture to guess what the SCOTUS will do and that means you have no insight past your own prejudice.

LLS

[MHGinTN]

"Third, no court is going to force Obama to prove himself to be a citizen, the burden is on those making the accusation that he is not a citizen."

Um, We The People have this piece of paper called the Constitution which stipulates that someone applying for the job of president MUST be eligible by the Constitutionally specified means. Sorry to blow out your little candle, but the burden of proof is squarely on the applicant not the people, to prove eligibility. Try thinking of the issue aqs a man applying for a job that has stipulated requirements for security clearance which he must provide or be ineligible.

When that standard is flipped on its head the way you tried to do--asserting We The People must prove a candidate ineligible, the Constitution is voided. Don't expect the SCOTUS to go along with that.

Though mine is but one voice among thousands writing, here's the letter I sent to the SCOTUS in that regard:

To the Honorable and very highly esteemed, Justice Clarence Thomas:

We The People are literally hiring a man to be President of OUR United States, thus We The People have the authority to demand Barack Obama prove his eligibility. The citizen cannot prove a negative; the Burden of Proof regarding citizenship has always been on Mister Obama. And he has never met it.

There appear to be two items at work in the perniciously lingering issue of Barack Hussein Obama’s certification of natural born citizenship and thus qualification to ascend to the office of President: Standing, and Burden of Proof.

With regards to the first, Standing: several courts are dismissing cases from American citizens demanding Barack Obama prove eligibility based on lack of plaintiffs' standing. This is outrageous! Each and every American citizen has standing to demand through the courts that a candidate prove his eligibility for elected office. For any court to rule otherwise is a travesty!

For the courts to suggest that The People must go through Congress or the Secretaries of the Several States to force production of proof of eligibility smacks of obstruction of justice. These are the same courts which do not hesitate to manufacture "rights" out of whole cloth. We The People are not asking that this man be subjected to a kangaroo court such as you endured, Your Honor, at the hands of Congressional devils. But We demand that Barack Obama prove his eligibility to even run for the office! Every document a fraudulent President signs will be a Constitutional travesty and an outrage.

Regarding the second, Burden of Proof: this is always on the candidate, for any position. Congress and the courts do not have the authority to withhold Mr. Obama's qualifications or keep from the People a factor of ineligibility; nor does Congress have the authority to eschew Constitutionally defined requirements except by a well defined Constitutionally defined process. By the Tenth Amendment it is a right reserved to The People to demand to see a Presidential candidate's qualifications.

If this is a Constitutional Republic still, then the people in government work for me and 299,000,000 other sovereigns of the Republic. We ought have the right to assurance that this Chicago thug is at least eligible to run for the office. Please, Sir, see to the appeals from We The People regarding this matter. [See please, docket # 08A407 ]

Highest Regards,

[Amendment10]

Third, no court is going to force Obama to prove himself to be a citizen, the burden is on those making the accusation that he is not a citizen. A criminal doesn't have to prove he didn't commit a crime, the state has to prove that he did.

I disagree with #3. I think that the Constitution puts the burden on presidential candidates to prove that they are a natural-born US citizen regardless of privacy issues if this point is challenged. Why would anybody else have the burden of proof?