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Political Scientist Says Electoral College Lacks What It Need To Elect Obama To White House
PR Web ^ | 12/11/08 | Dr. Mary Maxwell

Posted on 12/14/2008 9:57:46 AM PST by BP2

Marblehead, Mass. (PRWEB) December 11, 2008 -- Dr. Mary Maxwell, political scientist, said today: "Obama's silence about his citizenship is indefensible and unworkable. Next Monday, the 538 members of the Electoral college meet and they are at risk, themselves, of violating state election laws if they participate in a fraud."

"If a presidential candidate's claim that he meets the requirements are later found to be false," Maxwell said,"one or more of the 50 states could bring charges against him. But that would be a terrible thing if it comes after Inauguration Day. It would be better if a state would apply its law stringently as early as possible For example, the Election Commission of Alabama has authority to cite for contempt (http://law.justia.com/alabama/codes/16474/17-15-57.html) any person who refuses to deliver, upon subpoena, relevant items."

Maxwell said: "An Obama spokesman has called the eligibility controversy 'garbage,' and wants to keep pertinent records under seal." "Privacy is of great value," Maxwell acknowledged, "but when one signs the form to become a candidate for elective office, one swears, in most states, that one is eligible."

"For a presidential hopeful that means he has attained age 35, has resided here for 14 years,and is a natural-born citizen of the U.S." Maxwell stated, "If voters want proof of a candidate's eligibility -- and thousands have signed petitions and called Congress (http://rallycongress.com/constitutional-qualification/1244/stop-obama-constitutional-crisis/) seeking Obama's proof -- it follows that privacy must be sacrificed. How can Electors do their solemn duty of choosing America's executive for the next four years if they are in doubt about his qualification?" she asked.

"I've posted a current case, Keyes v Bowen, at my website (http://www.marymaxwell.us)," said Maxwell. "The plaintiffs are Electors who don't want to vote until they see Obama's documents," she said, "This case is making its way to the Supreme Court, but not in time for Dec.15th." Also, she reported,"there are some are military officers who understandably insist that their Commander in Chief be free of any suspicion of divided loyalties."

"This lays a shockingly heavy burden on Electors' shoulders," Maxwell said. "I believe that Obama's grammar school records, showing his citizenship as 'Indonesian,' are sufficient indication that he has an eligibility problem. So the presumption has to be against him. If Obama feels that is unfair he can simply submit the documents and put an end to the problem, " she said.

"Granted this approach is embarrassing," said Maxwell, "but so what? Don't Immigration officers frequently knock on doors of American residents and say 'Show your passport'?" She observed, "The Constitution protects all congresspersons from arrest on their way to or from their legislative sessions, but no one is immune from the law at other times. That is the core of our great system."

"If we create a cultural habit of exonerating government officials when they do wrong, or look the other way, it will soon be said that rule-of-law no longer works in our society and we need martial law," said Maxwell, "in fact I sniff it in the air now. What nonsense! We have a perfectly workable Constitution. But of course it can't work if the law does not apply to all."

"Failure to deal with Obama's issue is likely to cause an upset on Dec. 15th," said Maxwell. "Since Nov. 4th, the public has been told that the Electors will cast 373 ballots for Obama, and 165 for McCain. Typically, all Electors 'obey' their party but the Constitution does not require them to do so," she noted, "and in a 1992 case, Ray v Blair (http://vlex.com/vid/20012409), the Court ruled that political parties may give direction but they did not say the Elector is thus coerced."

"It is amazing to realize that if Obama drops out, the Electors are not obliged to choose his running mate, Joe Biden, or the next-best from the Democrat's summer convention, Hillary Clinton," Maxwell said. They can even choose someone that ran in a third party, such as Bob Barr or Cynthia McKinney." She remarked, "Indeed they are free to elect a citizen who never campaigned."

"Happily, panic need not occur if no individual gets a majority on Dec. 15th," Maxwell stated. "As usual, the Founding Fathers foresaw that outcome, and arranged for the House of Representatives to choose the president from the three highest on the Elector's list," she said. "and they would vote as states, with each state having one vote. The National Archives website (http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/faq.html#270) says that would occur on Jan. 8th, 2009."


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bho2008; birthcertificate; certifigate; electoral; electoralcollege; obama; obamatruthfile; president; spartansixdelta; tinfoilhat
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Political scientist Dr. Mary Maxwell reports a dilemma faced by Electoral College members. She said today: "If a candidate makes a fraudulent claim to be eligible for the presidency he violates election laws and in many states." So far," said Maxwell, "Obama has asked everyone to take his word for it that he meets eligibility. But Electors may take the opposite approach, refusing to cast a ballot for him on Dec. 15th if he obstinately withholds proof of eligibility."

You could have been born on another planet...

... have a single person claim to be your legal parent with a Hawaiian address as their residence the last 12 months...

... have that person claim that you were born at home without the aid of a midwife or any other witnesses...

... have that person create an affidavit and fill out an application for a “Certificate of Delayed Birth”...

... file it YEARS later...

... ask for the state of Hawaii to print you a “CertificATION of Life Birth” as proof of birth...

... and show no more verification of American citizenship than Barack Obama has!

[338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

Barack Obama has walked a straight line in a crooked world, around his associations with Blagojevich, Rezko, Ayers, Emil Jones, Farrakhan, Rev. Wright and others.

Why shouldn't we just believe him about his "birth certificate"?


1 posted on 12/14/2008 9:57:46 AM PST by BP2
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: BP2

If we really wanted to shake the hornets nest we could file suits against every one of those electors if they go through with it.


3 posted on 12/14/2008 10:01:45 AM PST by rjp2005 (Lord have mercy on us)
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To: BP2
Why shouldn't we just believe him about his "birth certificate"?

messiahs don't lie.

According to a LA Times writer he is an "attuned being", "a lightworker".

The question is, was he even born or was he a gift to heal our world from above ?

< / sarcasm >

4 posted on 12/14/2008 10:03:04 AM PST by Popman (Dont worry Barney Frank has your ass-ets covered!!!)
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To: BP2

Obama is a Typical Illinois politician, so the American people should leave nothing to chance and should question everything about this guy.


5 posted on 12/14/2008 10:03:07 AM PST by tomnbeverly ("In the hour of darkness and peril and need, the people will waken to listen and hear.....)
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To: BP2

Outstanding post. Thank you.


6 posted on 12/14/2008 10:03:24 AM PST by AGreatPer (Obama is not my president until I see his birth certificate.)
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To: BP2

I’ll bttt this.


7 posted on 12/14/2008 10:05:08 AM PST by Guenevere
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To: Baynative
Earth Frisk Blog claims that every hospital in Hawaii was recently queried in an attempt to discover the hospital where Ann Dunham (Obama) gave birth to Barack Hussein Obama.
* The Queen’s Medical Center - Honolulu, Hawaii Obama claims as his birth hospital
* Kapi’ olani Medical Center Obama’s sister claims Barack Obama born here
* Honolulu Shriners Hospital Never a patient Mom or Obama
* Straub Clinic & Hospital Never a patient Mom or Obama
* Hawaii Health Systems Corporation - Honolulu, Hawaii Never a patient Mom or Obama
* Cancer Institute of Maui - Wailuku, Hawaii No Comment ???
* Kuakini Hospital - Honolulu, Hawaii Never a patient Mom or Obama
* Rehabilitation Hospital of the Pacific - Honolulu, Hawaii Never a patient Mom or Obama
* St. Francis Healthcare System of Hawaii - Hawaii Never a patient Mom or Obama
* Straub Heatlh - Honolulu, Hawaii Never a patient Mom or Obama
* Tripler Medical Center - Honolulu, Hawaii Never a patient Mom or Obama
* Wahiawa General Hospital - Wahiawa, Hawaii Never a patient Mom or Obama
* Wilcox Memorial Hospital - Lihue, Kauai, Hawaii Never a patient Mom or Obama


Obama/Dunham marriage license — Not released
Soetoro/Dunham marriage license — Not released
Soetoro adoption records — Not released
Fransiskus Assisi School School application — Not Released
Punahou School records — Not released
Selective Service Registration — Released - Proven Counterfeit
Occidental College records — Not released
Passport (Pakistan) — Not released
Columbia College records — Not released
Columbia thesis — Not released
Harvard College records — Not released
Harvard Law Review articles — None (maybe 1, Not Signed)
Baptism certificate — None
Medical records — Not released
Illinois State Senate records — None (Locked up to prohibit public view
Illinois State Senate schedule — Lost (All other Illinois state senators’ records are intact)
Law practice client list — Not released
University of Chicago scholarly articles — None


8 posted on 12/14/2008 10:05:13 AM PST by Diogenesis
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To: BP2
"An Obama spokesman has called the eligibility controversy 'garbage,' and wants to keep pertinent records under seal." "Privacy is of great value,"

Somone should send this to Doctor Maxwell

"Let me also say that I remain distressed that the White House during this confirmation process, which overall went smoothly, failed to provide critical documents as part of the record that could have provided us with a better basis to make our judgment with respect to the nomination. This White House continues to stymie efforts on the part of the Senate to do its job. I hope with the next nominee who comes up for the Supreme Court that the White House recognizes that in fact it is its duty not just to the Senate but to the American people to make sure we can thoroughly and adequately evaluate the record of every single nominee who comes before us."

Remarks of Senator Barack Obama on the Confirmation of Judge John Roberts
9 posted on 12/14/2008 10:05:26 AM PST by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: Baynative

Neither metaphorically nor literally.

In a year the press will turn on him, or he will turn on them.

What happens after that is anyone’s guess.


10 posted on 12/14/2008 10:05:36 AM PST by null and void (Hey 0bama? There will be a pop quiz every day for the next four years...miss a question, people die.)
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To: BP2
We shouldn't just believe him because he is a pathological liar. He has lied about Wright, Pfleger, Ayers, Rezko, Blagojovich, his grandmother (she had cancer and he said hip replacement), etc., etc., etc.. Lying is just political expediency for the Dems. Don't worry. He can say and do anything he wants in the next four years and he will not be held accountable.
11 posted on 12/14/2008 10:06:01 AM PST by originalbuckeye
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To: BP2
How would one determine who the electors are for one's state???

Missouri for example?

12 posted on 12/14/2008 10:06:59 AM PST by demsux
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To: BP2
Lets suppose he actually was born in Kenya and that the BC in Hawaii is the Delayed BC that was issued an a result of his adoption and name change. I mean, it could have happened that way. What proof do we have?

And lets suppose he wasn't a citizen and knew it. He wouldn't have registered for the draft and he might have attended three universities as a foreign exchange student.

Never has someone come so far without leaving a single footprint.

13 posted on 12/14/2008 10:07:33 AM PST by OldEagle
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To: BP2

What are the credentials on Mary Maxwell?...Thanks :)


14 posted on 12/14/2008 10:08:32 AM PST by Guenevere
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To: rjp2005

Correct....Can a list of the electors be published and contact Infor.....or are them kept insulated?

.Obama is just the end result of the problem, the root cause of the problem needs to be attacked-—and that is the electors themselves and thier apathy to the Constituional question at hand.

I realize all the cases are being pushed at SCOTUS, but it is really a state court issue-—problem is the time element.


15 posted on 12/14/2008 10:10:29 AM PST by sbark
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To: BP2

Obama has been declared fully eligible by the weight of public and media opinion. No one with the power to stop him is going to stand in front of that freight train.


16 posted on 12/14/2008 10:13:36 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves ("One man's 'magic' is another man's engineering. 'Supernatural' is a null word." -- Robert Heinlein)
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To: BP2
The computer-generated “Certification of Live Birth” was first used in November 2001 to allow the State of Hawaii to pull up birth records quicker for people requesting a “birth certificate” in person. At the very bottom of the form are the words, “This copy serves as prima facia evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding.” [HRS 338-13(b), 338-19]."

However, despite this written notice on the form, some Hawaii state agencies do not accept the “Certification of Live Birth” as irrefutable verification of Hawaiian birth. There have been numerous cases when the Hawaii Family Court System required more detailed data for paternity suits. Additionally, the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands provides the following guidelines to Hawaiian natives applying for Hawaiian Home Lands homestead:

The primary documents used to show you are of age and a qualified native Hawaiian are:
- A certified copy of Certificate of Birth;
- A certified copy of Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, including testimonies; or
- A certified copy of Certificate of Delayed Birth.

“In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.” (emphasis added)

Additionally, the “Certification of Live Birth” is not recognized by many Federal agencies. DoD 5220.22-M, the "National Industrial Security Program Operating Manual," provides baseline standards for the protection of classified information released or disclosed to industry. “Unified Facilities Guide Specifications,” section 1.5.22.2 allows for a total of 18 different means to verify US citizenship, ranging from a military ID card to even a “Hawaii certificate of foreign birth.” The “Certification of Live Birth” is not on the list of approved documents acceptable for proof of Citizenship.


17 posted on 12/14/2008 10:15:42 AM PST by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: sbark
[...] or are them kept insulated?

No, "them" are not kept insulated (or isolated.)

Regards,

18 posted on 12/14/2008 10:17:22 AM PST by alexander_busek
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To: BP2

bttt


19 posted on 12/14/2008 10:17:25 AM PST by granite ("We dare not tempt them with weakness" - JFK)
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To: rjp2005

“If we really wanted to shake the hornets nest we could file suits against every one of those electors if they go through with it.”

let me know when there is a fund to contribute to.


20 posted on 12/14/2008 10:17:40 AM PST by stompk
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To: BP2

“when one signs the form to become a candidate...”

I’ve mentioned this on previous threads.

He was APPLYING to be a candidate. As such, he is obligated to be able to prove ALL RELEVANT REQUIREMENTS FOR THE POSITION!!!!


21 posted on 12/14/2008 10:18:03 AM PST by djf (...heard about a couple livin in the USA, he said they traded in their baby for a Chevrolet...)
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To: BP2
Free!! Clickable link!! Everybody Freep This !!!!!!

http://rallycongress.com/constitutional-qualification/1244/stop-obama-constitutional-crisis/

22 posted on 12/14/2008 10:20:14 AM PST by rawcatslyentist (I will stand with the Muslims ~B Hussein Obomunist ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Verito Possumus~Verified Sleeper!)
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To: BP2

“Obama’s silence about his citizenship is indefensible”

Now if only the Supreme Court would say that.


23 posted on 12/14/2008 10:20:26 AM PST by Canedawg ("The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it")
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To: OldEagle

Yeah, people are working the chronology backyards, looking to see who backed Obama when he became a Illinois state senator.

Many of those same people are tied to Blago...


24 posted on 12/14/2008 10:21:27 AM PST by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: BP2

Thanks for the post. Dr. Mary Maxwell lays out the information carefully and impartially. It’s a high quality article. She really knows her stuff. I bookmarked it.


25 posted on 12/14/2008 10:22:08 AM PST by ChessExpert (The Dow was at 12,400 when Democrats took control of Congress. What is it today?)
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To: BP2

Conservatives are beginning to get a reputation of being sore losers. Could this sore loser reputation be a problem for us in the future?


26 posted on 12/14/2008 10:22:37 AM PST by gocats5
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To: BP2

Bump


27 posted on 12/14/2008 10:22:46 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Obama - not just an empty suit - - A Suit Bomb invading the White House)
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To: gocats5

Could being spineless be a problem for you when trying to stand up?


28 posted on 12/14/2008 10:24:22 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Obama - not just an empty suit - - A Suit Bomb invading the White House)
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To: BP2

Mary Maxwell home site
http://www.marymaxwell.us/

list of electors from 1 state toward bottom

must be avail. for every state on net


29 posted on 12/14/2008 10:25:56 AM PST by sbark
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: BP2
Freeride

And the Main Stream Incompetent Media continues there defense of Obama... could we make Obama an "honorary Republican" for a day so they would demand he show proof of his elegibility? Just a thought...

31 posted on 12/14/2008 10:28:40 AM PST by missnry (The truth will set you free ... and drive liberals Crazy!)
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To: Red_Devil 232; pissant

Although from West Virginia, Hawaii’s process for getting a “Certificate of Delayed Birth” is virtually identical:

http://www.wvdhhr.org/bph/oehp/hsc/test/Delayedbirth.Shtml

What is a Delayed Certificate of Birth?
If a birth isn’t registered with Vital Registration within the one year, then a normal certificate may not be filed for that birth. Instead a special type of birth certificate is placed on file. This type of certificate not only shows the facts of birth for the child but also shows the types of evidence presented to Vital Registration to back up the facts of birth. The facts of birth are

The Full Name of the Person at the Time of Birth
Date of birth
Place of Birth (City and State)
Mother’s Full Maiden Name
Mother’s Place of Birth (at least State or country)
Full Name of the Father
Father’s Place of Birth (at least State or country)

Note About the Name: If the name of the person on the birth certificate was established by adoption, legitimation, paternity acknowledgment or court action, the the delayed certificate will show that name (provided that the proper documentation is submitted.).
Note about Fathers: If the mother was not married to the father at the time of the birth, or during the ten months before the birth. In this case the father can only be added if paternity as been determined by legitimation, adoption, or an acknowledgment of paternity (provided that the proper documentation is provided.)

Who Needs to File for a Certificate of Delayed Birth?
Anyone whose birth certificate is not on file in West Virginia AND

The person was born in West Virginia AND
The person has no birth certificate on file in the county of birth AND
The person needs (or wishes) for a birth certificate to be on file for him or her at Vital Registration
Typically, if a child was born in a hospital, there is a birth certificate on file for them at Vital Registration.

And standards were A LOT more lax in Hawaii in the 1960s!


32 posted on 12/14/2008 10:29:46 AM PST by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: gocats5

Trying to uphold the Constitution is the mark of a sore loser?


33 posted on 12/14/2008 10:30:04 AM PST by TommyTrojan
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To: Baynative

I wouldn’t bet against that, but I have a feeling that even with the most friendly of press, he’ll feel the need to control every jot and tittle.


34 posted on 12/14/2008 10:30:06 AM PST by null and void (Hey 0bama? There will be a pop quiz every day for the next four years...miss a question, people die.)
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To: OldEagle
Absolutely and that is the problem! We don't know Jack about this clown and no one is questioning him,a true travesty of US justice of monumental proportions IMHO.
35 posted on 12/14/2008 10:32:43 AM PST by rodguy911 (HOME OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE--GO SARAHCUDA !!)
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: BP2

I’ll treat Obama as nice as the leftists treated Bush. Obama is a liar. He was born in Kenya. He is a fraud. He will not be a legitimate president until he proves his eligibility. I don’t care who swears him in. Until comes clean, all he can be is a tyrant.


37 posted on 12/14/2008 10:36:04 AM PST by pallis
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To: sbark

must be New Hampshire electors.....problem is they are all “designated by the democratic party”...probably have been promised money to fight any lawsuits and or threatened with worse.....


38 posted on 12/14/2008 10:36:31 AM PST by sbark
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To: BP2
Political scientist from MARBLEHEAD!!!! Some times the jokes just write themselves. LOL
39 posted on 12/14/2008 10:36:36 AM PST by org.whodat (Conservatives don't vote for Bailouts for Super-Rich Bankers! Republicans do!)
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To: gocats5

Conservatives are beginning to get a reputation of being sore losers. Could this sore loser reputation be a problem for us in the future

It hasn’t seemed to hurt the Democrats at all.


40 posted on 12/14/2008 10:36:41 AM PST by Know et al (Everything I know I read in the newspaper and that's the reason for my ignorance: Will Rogers)
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To: gocats5

Republicans have a reputation of being sore losers, conspiracy nuts, right-wing fanatics, the list goes on.

From the poem IF

“If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too:
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise;”

SNIP

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings-—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much:
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And-—which is more-—you’ll be a Man, my son!

Rudyard Kipling


41 posted on 12/14/2008 10:37:39 AM PST by Kenny
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To: demsux
Check your Secretary of State's Web site.

SOS, Missouri - Elections: General Election Presidential Electors for the Missouri Republican Party

42 posted on 12/14/2008 10:40:05 AM PST by thecodont
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To: thecodont

thanks


43 posted on 12/14/2008 10:40:52 AM PST by demsux
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To: BP2

Obama’s ‘privacy’ defense is absurd.

Birth Certificates are sealed under privacy laws to prevent identity theft.

For a President-elect to prevent release of his vault copy long form birth certificate in order to avoid identity theft is ridiculously absurd.

There is nothing on a long form birth certificate that would render one prone to any abuse other than possible identity theft. And if there were anything remotely prone to abuse, it could be redacted on a copy with a cover letter of explanation from the Hawaii government.

So far there are officials of the State of Hawaii that have said the ‘Certificate of Live Birth’ is genuine. But what is not exposed by the press is there is a difference between a Certificate of Live Birth’ and a ‘Certification of Live Birth’. In the former case all that is required is for the parents to be citizens and claim they were residents of Hawaii within the last year even if their child was not born in Hawaii. In such a case the State of Hawaii will issue a ‘Certificate of Live Birth’. The background of this policy law is the nature of how Islanders were registered as residents of the USA when Hawaii became a territory.

The ‘Certification of Live Birth’ is however an official record that the child was born in the Hawaiian Islands.

What Obama released and what the State officials vouched for was a ‘Certificate of Live Birth’. This does not prove he was born in Hawaii. His half-sister has one of these and she is known to have not been born in Hawaii. Likewise Sun Yat-Sen was born in China but had a ‘Certificate of Live Birth’ from Hawaii.

Therefore, Obama needs to settle this and soon. It will cloud his Presidency from the start and I believe it will not go away.


44 posted on 12/14/2008 10:41:05 AM PST by Hostage
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To: tomnbeverly

You got it slightly wrong,,,,he is a CHICAGO democrat politician, the most crooked kind anywhere.


45 posted on 12/14/2008 10:43:40 AM PST by ajay_kumar (Sacrificial RINO's in 2012, Real Conservatives in 2016)
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To: Hostage; BP2

Post #17 is correct and my previous post is mistaken.

It is the ‘Certificate of Live Birth in Hawaii’ and not the ‘Certification of Live Birth’ that is the valid document for proof of birth in Hawaii.


46 posted on 12/14/2008 10:45:40 AM PST by Hostage
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To: OldEagle
You don't have to be a US citizen to register for the draft. I was on a waiting list for immigrant visa and had to register for the draft.
47 posted on 12/14/2008 10:45:47 AM PST by ajay_kumar (Sacrificial RINO's in 2012, Real Conservatives in 2016)
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To: BP2

Who’s in charge of the popcorn?


48 posted on 12/14/2008 10:46:10 AM PST by PistolPaknMama (Al-Queda can recruit on college campuses but the US military can't! --FReeper airborne)
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To: BP2

bump


49 posted on 12/14/2008 10:47:52 AM PST by manic4organic (We Are S0 Screwed)
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To: PistolPaknMama

I don’t know but I want the Beer Concession.


50 posted on 12/14/2008 10:48:26 AM PST by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
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