Posted on 01/12/2009 5:52:48 AM PST by Sopater
God does not micromanage us. We manage that quite handily ourselves. For fifty years, we have given our children over to the enemy. Is it any wonder that they now wish to be like them? Is this God’s punishment or the result of our own actions? Both?
Sins are sins because they’re destructive to the sinner, not because pious people are afraid someone, somewhere is having a good time.
While God may not micromanage us, I believe that He created a pre-determined path for each of us to follow. Since God can neither be denied nor wrong, we have no choice but to follow the path He created for each of us.
Sorry, I don't buy predestination. We have free will, and though God knows what we're going to do with it, he does not destroy it by preordaining what we do. Otherwise, why Heaven and Hell? If God already created everyone's destiny, why bother with the messy life-on-earth thingy? Just go straight to sorting everyone out, up or down.
When I was a kid we had Choose Your Own Adventure books. You would read the book and make choices on the way that led to a different story ending. I think that’s how God works with us. A case of if you go this way this will happen. That way, this will happen. He just knows all the scenarios.
Well, it’s a good thing I’m not selling it. It just happens to be what I believe.
Why heaven and hell? I don’t believe in hell, and I hope there’s a heaven.
You’ll have to ask God about the why...I’m guessing you get a different answer than I did.
I can’t give you the names, but I’m willing to bet, that lots of people have died for what they knew wasn’t true or at least didn’t know for sure.
You said — “Seems that since God knows whats going to happen, He could have saved a lot of lives, by just not letting us develop religions.”
Well..., one way would be to have God *directly control* how people choose things like religions for themselves (and whether they want to choose what the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has provided for salvation through the Messiah of Israel) — versus — choosing whatever they want on their own free accord, even if it results in their own pain and suffering and killing and murders, and ending finally in eternal separation from God, in the lake of fire.
Our Creator God, the God of Abraham, Isacc and Jacob, has given the “choice” to people to choose God’s offer of salvation, freely (on their own) through Jesus, the Messiah of Israel — or — to choose their own way, their own “religion” (which is what it is), even if they are misguided and deceived and are hell-bent on their own self-destruction.
God’s plan was to give “choice” in the matter so that those who are “with God” eternally, in the end, are those who wish to be with God and have accepted that salvation that He has offered through His Son, the Messiah of Israel.
The problem goes a lot further than simply a few false religions and people hell-bent on destroying themselves. It goes way back to the beginning pages of the Bible where sin first entered into God’s perfect creation (as He knew it would, and thus, He had already provided the “way of salvation” even before He created the entirety of creation.
Jesus said that one should not worry about one’s death. That’s not the problem. He said the real thing to worry about is the “second death” which results in the lake of fire and eternal separation from God. So, all these people who are dying, are actually part of the “first death” — which comes to all of mankind, regardless of whether they have accepted God’s plan of salvation through His Son, Jesus, the Messiah of Israel — or — they have decided to go their own way of a false religion.
The “key” is the “second death” (after judgement) and whether one will be eternally with God, or forever separated from God in the lake of fire. God had already pronounced the judgement of “death” (i.e., the “first death”) upon mankind, back in the beginning. It’s the “second death” which is determined by the individual themselves.
This is the “plan” that God is following to rid the world of all sin and pain and death and suffering, by allowing Satan and his evil angels to carry through their lies (in the form of false religions) and death and destruction, to bring out, to the fullest, the results of what is accomplished by Satan’s lies. Then God brings His full judgement, during that 7-year Tribulation time, which He says He has *saved up* from the beginning, all the way until that time. All the judgement that God has not deservedly given out, throughout human history is going to be *fully dispensed* at this particular time. That’s a lot of judgement and will be a fearsome time, to be sure.
It’s at the end, and when all things have been accomplished, as God has already told us ahead of time, in the Bible, that all living and all of creation will be brought back to the perfection and sinlessness of the beginning of creation. There will be no more death, pain, destruction and/or sin in the world, in all of creation — any more — after that time (that time of full completion).
So, God allows the sin which started in the beginning to have its *full fruition* — at which time God puts a complete and total end to it, people having seen (for themselves) over the course of human history that all things that they have tried, apart from God, has utterly failed. When all has been tried and all has finally failed — God steps in and puts an end to it all. Those who have chosen to reject God will be eternally separated from Him and those who have chosen to be with God (according to how He has provided) will be with Him in eternal life and joy and happiness in a world that is without sin, pain, death or suffering...
Thanks. Personally, I don’t know enough to be able to definitively say ‘this is what God wants...’, like you do.
Well, I certainly wouldn’t want to second-guess a saint.
I think you’re right. And it can’t happen soon enough for me.
Rut roh! The “vast majority” of Americans just voted overwhelmingly for that immoral and wicked ‘change’. With a ghoul now in charge that favors infanticide, and who is best buds: with racist, pretenda preachers that spew anti-Whitey and anti-American hatred; Christian killers in Africa (Odinga), American killers in the USA (Ayers); and is the hero of every socialist/leftist/communist ahole on the planet....our only REAL hope is to start praying and to keep praying.
We’re in deep stuff now.
You miss the point of this whole exper....er...endeavor completely. What would be the point for God to create a bunch of mind-numbed robots that followed God explicitly and blindly... sort of like the Obamazombies have done and are doing?
Giving mankind free will is the ONLY way that humans could hope to rise above our own sinfullness and could redeem ourselves after the fall in Eden.
So, when someone kiddingly tells you that the hard times or bad day you’re having is “all just a test”.....
trust me. It really is!
It’s God’s test.
“Sins are sins because they’re destructive to the sinner, not because pious people are afraid someone, somewhere is having a good time.”
Exactly! Just look at the Ten Commandments. Not following them can and will only bring disaster to yourself. Take adultery, for intance. How many times has adultery caused or turned into even worse sins, including murder?
God the Father knows what causes human tragedy and God knows us to a perfect “T”. It’s obvious that he only wants what is best for us, his children..... ergo his commandments.
I do not even begin to try to figure out God’s point in things. Why do we have wars, pestilence, catastrophes, etc? What is the point in a child having cancer? Giving man the concept, or the belief in/of free will, makes it possible to form societies and create laws. Since we are God’s creations, and He knows exactly what we will do and when, leads me to believe that there is not really any sinfullness for us to rise up over or a need for redemption. What we may think of as a test, is really just life. While you may see it as a test, I see it as the way God made us.
It’s really not necessary for you TO figure out God’s “point”. To do that would probably be impossible anyway. All that IS necessary for you to be saved is for you to love God and follow his commandments and accept his son, Jesus Christ, as your savior. It’s really just that simple.
Your belief that there is no need for redemption could well cause your eternal damnation.... or as another poster put it “the second death”. I suggest that you read the Bible and do some research on God’s word. For your own sake.
I know I need to continue reading and researching the Bible and God’s word, myself. So no, I am not advocating anything that I am not doing or willing to do myself. One difference between me and most Christians is that I don’t believe you have to attend a church or organized religion. You can pray just as well in the privacy of your own home, car, etc. That’s the way I was brought up and that is the way I chose to believe.
Yes, I realise that, I just don’t believe that salvation is necessary. I don’t choose any particular way to believe, it’s just something inside me. I can’t imagine choosing to believe something, that doesn’t make sense to me, although I guess I could say I believe something, but that wouldn’t really be a belief, would it?
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